I think Arco IS Costco gas. Regardless, I use Chevron so maybe their Techron doesn't work so well. I was reading another post on carbon buildup on the spark plug threads sometimes causing breakage when removing them so I might have that joy to look forward to. I've got a little over 60K miles on this truck so I'm a little surprised at there being any carbon buildup this soon.
Karl

 

Okay so I've been reading past posts (all which are several years old I might add) on carbon deposits, fuel octane, top tier gas stations and all the while wondering if my weird starting problem has anything to do with any of it.

I travel from SoCal to Oklahoma City for work every few months or so and as a result, use a lot of fuel and at the same time wonder how my truck's engine (with 64K miles on it) could be suffering from carbon deposits. I only use Chevron, Shell, Texaco, Mobile or Valero in that order. I don't stop at those Love's or other "truck stop" places even though their gas is cheaper. Only a few times did I "experiment" with higher octane fuel and that was when regular was 86 octane. In those cases I went with the mid grade which was 87 or 88 octane.

So, where are these carbon deposits coming from? The majority of my driving is on the interstates. I do very little city or stop and go driving in comparison. Since carbon deposits seem to be a valid problem, even if it isn't mine, I will start using an additive like Techron or some such to keep carbon deposits down but because my original problem is only marginally better after my last visit to the dealer, I can't help but think there is something else going on here.
Karl

 

Perhaps you should consider getting a BG or Motorvac intake cleaning job every 60k, just prior to changing the spark plugs (which should be done every 60k if you have a 5.4 3v). This will also make the plug change go easier, less breakage if you have a 5.4 3v. I have this done with every plug change on general principles. Yes, I know it's a profit center for the dealer.

None of the gas you listed is crap.

You can test your injectors for leakage yourself - lift the fuel rail, leaving the injectors in the rail. Put a piece of paper under each injector, turn the key on, and look for drips.

Something else to look at is the FPDM on the rear axle. Unbolt it and look at the back side for corrosion. Use standoffs when you put it back up so it won't directly contact the axle.

 

I'll check out that FPDM. The dealer tested the injectors and said they were fine and reminded me that it was the 2005 that got the bad ones. Since my truck was built in October of that year, I was concerned that maybe a bad one or two somehow found their way into my engine.

It's funny (not really) that before I had my current truck I had a 2003 with the 5.4 and was concerned about those motors ejecting their spark plugs and I waited two full years into the 3 valve production before trading my '03 in for the '06 and what happens? I have a different problem to deal with concerning the head design. What are the odds?
Karl

 

The plug ejection issue has been pretty much solved by using Motorcraft nickel-plated plugs, no antiseize, and 28 ft/lb torque. Also, late in 2003 they went from 4 thread heads to 8 thread heads.

The 3v sticking issue was solved with a head redesign late in 2008 to a fully threaded conventional 1 piece plug.

 

Yes, my point exactly. My timing was always off when I decided to buy.

My original concern was that whatever was giving me the hard start might also damage the engine somehow. Since leaking fuel is most likely out, whatever is left I can probably live with - at least while I try a few things on my own like the additives (assuming carbon deposits) and the FPDM (assuming other fuel issues). It could be something unrelated to either possibility.

Karl

 

Not sure if this is the same issue, but every once in a while, usually when my pickup has been started and shut off multiple times (driving around the city), sometimes my pickup will start but run rough for about 3 second and then rev up and then go back down to normal idle and run fine. But it seems completely random as to when it does this.

Edit: I've got an '05 f150 with the 5.4 and a DiabloSport Predator. It had this problem before the programmer too.

 

With an 05, you may have the sticky fuel injector issue.

https://www.f150online.com/forums/4972441-post62.html

 

Well, after driving like a maniac (to blow the carbon out supposedly) for a few tank fulls of gas, I find that I still have the hard start problem, especially when the ambient outside temperature is hot. When the engine starts on the second try, black smoke comes out of the exhaust. This doesn't happen every time - it depends on how long the engine was not running somewhat. With this last hard start episode, the truck was parked for about 1.5 hours since I drove it last. Usually upon first start of the day, I have no problem.

I also found that there is a pretty severe hesitation on kick down sometimes that I didn't notice before, probably because I rarely have to use it. I don't usually beat on my truck. I guess it's time for some new spark plugs as unless there is something wrong with the fuel system, it's the only thing left to try. So, at next service, that's what I will suggest. I know that one won't be free!
Karl

 

You have sticky fuel injectors, and if you don't do something about it you may hydrolock it - bye bye engine. Go over to O'Reilly, they have a buy one, get one free deal going right now on Techron. Pick up a few bottles (20 gallon version) and put one in each tank of gas. This will also make the plug change go a bit easier. Until this is cleared up, I'd also use Chevron gas, it also has Techron in it.

 

Yeah I was going to do the Techron thing a few times before having the plugs changed. The dealer tested the injectors per my request and reported they were okay but black smoke seems to indicate otherwise. We'll see what happens with the new plugs. I'd like to get rid of that huge hesitation and I might solve all the problems with one fix.
Karl

 

Just got the truck back from the dealer for regular service and spark plug change. They retested everything - fuel injectors, FPDM, whatever the computer is connected to - everything. The truck passed every test with flying colors. The service writer started it up three times while I watched with no problem. This is nothing new. The engine failed to start first time when I was leaving home to take it in for this service. The service writer jumped in, turned the key and the engine started right up. Bugger.

Anyway, I took it home and let it sit for an hour while I had lunch. I went out to go somewhere and tried to start it and the starter turned over a couple of times and stopped, just as though I had let go of the key. Same old problem. Next try and the engine started but I could smell fuel and see black smoke come out of the exhaust. Either I have lost the ability to start my truck or there's another problem that has nothing to do with the fuel system or the engine. But what could it be? I am out of ideas.

Karl

 

Guys, I can't have the only F150 in the world that has this problem. There has to be something going on, perhaps with the ignition switch, starter, some intermediate phase between when the key is first turned to when the engine fires up. When new I could count on the engine starting after about 3 turns of the starter. I could let the key go and know that the engine would start. Now, it might only turn a couple of revolutions and then stop. Or I can let go of the key after three and nothing happens. Or I can keep the key turned until the engine stumbles to life with a smell of unburned gas and black smoke out the exhaust. The "new" of the new truck has worn off but what exactly is it that's changed?

I really can't afford a new truck right now (this one's only got 63K on it) and I also can't be replacing cat converters once a year because they get drowned in raw fuel all the time. As I first stated, this can't be the only case of this sort of thing happening. Do I really have the only F150 on earth with this problem?

Karl

 

I decided to do a little "blue sky" thinking with the help of members of another online forum. Even from the beginning, I never really believed that I had a problem with the fuel delivery or engine electrical system. I always wondered if the actual starting system (ignition switch, starter, starter cutout or PATS) might be playing a part in this problem. The only question is, would any of these problems show up as codes in the ECU because the truck always checks out fine when the dealer searches for the problem? I doubt the starter or ignition switch would "throw a code" but anything connected with the ECU or PATS might but again, nothing seems to show up so maybe they don't.

A member of this other forum suggested trying my spare ignition key. At this point, I'm ready to try anything. The thought is that maybe the chip in the key is going bad or the signal pickup in the ignition switch is going bad. The first time (yesterday) I tried, the engine started fine though the truck has been sitting for a week. My confidence level is pretty low so I only drive the truck when I need to haul something that I can't get into one of my other vehicles.

I am only posting this to document this problem and hopefully help someone else who might have this same problem down the road. Also I want to get some alternative "outside the box" thinking going on because according to the dealer, I shouldn't be having this problem considering all of the tests and work they've done.

Karl

 

Well, so far my experiment has netted me no conclusive evidence one way or the other. If I drive the truck every day, the engine will usually stumble to life at first start attempt. If I let the truck sit for several days, the first start attempt usually goes fine. It's like one of the injectors is leaking fuel and if the truck sits for a few days, the fuel has a chance to evaporate but if I try and start the engine multiple times a day or even daily one time, the fuel is still in one of the combustion chambers ready to foul the startup. If I had $400 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd replace all of the injectors just to see what happens.
Karl