Since I only average about 600 miles per year on my truck I'm not going to sweat it -- at that rate I won't be due for a spark plug change for another 163 years.......

 

You really need to get out more!................

 

You hit the nail on the head. This is not a safety issue so they won't change it.

 

x2, they have got away with it since 04 so it would stand to reason they can do it a lil longer till this motor is out to pasture

 

I posted this to a previous thread last month i think it applies here

11-12-2007, 08:44 AM
jrp22554
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 47

I have stayed out of this 5.4 debate, but my municipality has quite a few ford f150, f250 and f350's with 5.4's of various ages and talking with the shop manager, he advises that we are now experiencing the broken plug problem, yes we have had the older 5.4's spitting plugs.

when I was deciding what to buy, the 4.6 or the 5.4 in our new trucks at home (personal purchase) I discussed the the then new problem, he blew it off, he has had second thoughts now as our units now come due for plug changes.

I had a thought about the shops that are breaking the plugs

What I am about to say is not a shot at many of the good mechanics such as Quinton and others here as I do not what their shop policies are.

All of the shops in the Mobile area employ their mechanics on an incentive basis, the more work you do (jobs completed) the more you make
they are paid to go fast, not to do a good job by taking your time.

There are rate books that indicate how long a job should take and what should be charged.

the result is just because a TSB says you do this and that and you should use pentrating oil and go 1/4 turn, do not use excessive force does not mean that he will, if the right way says 8 hours to do a plug change properly on a 5.4, does not mean he will, because he would normally do say 4 plug changes on a reqular 4.6 engine in the same time, the mechanic is losing money taking his time following the TSB and proper procedure

I think many of the broken plugs are the result of mechanics paid on an incentive basis, the more you do the more you are paid, shop supervisors know this and know that they can pass their goofs off to the customer.

you might want to ask if your mechanic is paid on an incentive per job basis, they may lie to you as several writers and shop foremen have to me, but their mechanics tell me another story

thoght I might add this to the debate

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Last edited by jrp22554 : 11-12-2007 at 08:54 AM.





shops are trying to do as much as possible in the shortest possible time, Ford knows that no matter what they come up with, shops do not want to dedicate the time necessary, if they do FOMOCO is not going to pay the shops to take their time.
Shops are going to cheat and try to do the job faster that they should so that they can do 2 jobs in the time of one.
If they break the plugs, so sorry, some one is going to pay, either FOMOCO or the vehicle owner (or both)
FOrd knows this and does want to pay, they know how some dealers will stick it to them.

 

I'm not going to worry about it, my next truck will have glow plugs!

 

no, we just don't go looking for excuses to buy superduties and rub it in everyone elses faces

there is an issue...we all agree...and all of the chicken littles on this site and others have beaten it to death. but, realistically, a small percentage of people will actually have this problem.

c'mon, maybe a few thousand have plugs broken off...maybe

vs. how many million? the percentages are so small it's almost beneath notice. say 1,000 broken plugs for every 1,000,000 sold...that's 1/10 a percent.

I'd bet that statistically you have more issues with say a certain production run of LCD TV's

 

Same old same old.

 

It's not what Ford is considering doing or has to do but what they actually do that will make or break them in my mind. Word of mouth for these trucks will go a long way these days. Nobody in their right mind will want to support a company that designs and mass produces engines knowing there is a design flaw with the plugs. Ford will bite the bullet or they will loose, loose, loose. Americans may be name loyal with their trucks but they will not be stupid. The winds of change may be rapidly approaching............

 

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Just IMHO, the only way Ford is going to do the right thing in regards to the poor design of these plugs is if the Government / Courts forces them to. They have had a really bad history lately of just not doing the right thing when it comes to taking responsibility for their screw ups. Flipping Explorers, burning F-150 and expeditions should prove that point. They didn't do a thing about those until forced to by the government.

And the mental midgets at Ford corporate wonder why they are in financial trouble....

 

The reality is that most F150 owners do not belong to a forum and know nothing about any of the problems that are discussed regularly. They do the recommended maintenance when to book tells them to if at all. The plugs are supposed to last 100K miles so they may get changed when the truck is 5+ years old. If one breaks, its an old truck and stuff happens. They will whine then just pay to have it fixed. Ford will never do a recall on plugs or the cylinder heads; with a published procedure to follow to change plugs, they have their tails covered to avoid any kind of large scale lawsuit.

Also, with all those who have posted here about plugs breaking, I have never seen any real data that realistically shows what percentage of plugs break during a change, especially when following the TSB. I imagine the true percentage is quite small.

 

Very well stated

this is a characteristic not a defect
I can think of dozens of design features in just about all makes that turn a simple job into a major PITA, all you can do is make Found On Road Dead jokes and F'n Old Rebuilt Dodge cracks and cuss the companys. Flip Over Read Directions...

 

I think, to be honest... Inline6 is correct... for the average truck consumer, who keeps their truck about 50k to 75k, they don't need to worry about it. It's for those who keep their truck forever who need to worry about it, but will pay for Ford's poor engineering in the end.

It's kind of sad... but you just got 100k out of that engine, and to put $400 to have a dealer change the plugs out at 100k is no big deal. I mean you can whine all you want... but the fact of the matter is that by that time, it is an old truck, and stuff happens. It's life... At least you were forewarned about it happening... better than being someone who didn't know that it was a common occurance when the plug just broke in half.

I mean... for what it's worth, it has no bearing on whether they should issue a recall or even a TSB about the issue, because it is outside the realms of the warranty... way outside the realms of the warranty.

Ford figures by that time, you will have the truck paid off and you can spend the extra cash you have earned from not having a truck payment to get the plugs replaced. I really don't see the big deal here, personally.

 

i agree with jrp22554, some mechanics dont know, some dont care, some would rather do the more work. like when i was calling around the dealerships to see who has experience taking out these plugs, and which dealerships take responsibility for breaking em... i asked the biggest in the area, why they wont take responsibilty if they break it, i said " what keeps a mechanic from snapping em off to do a 3000 dollar head job" btw this was before i found out about the tsb, the ford guy said "we wont do that, when it happens, your likely to see a wrench flying across the shop along with alot of swearing"

i ended up doing them myself with tsb, without the tsb, i would have broke 7 for sure maybe got 1 out.

the problem is HARD FACT, how can anyone say its not, we will use a syllogism to illustrate:

major premise: if there is no problem, no TSB will exist
minor premise: A tsb exists
conclusion: there is a problem