It is nice to be back after not posting for a long while. Once again this place has proven to be a valuable resource.

My story...

Last Saturday my woman and I were out running errands when the truck began to run rough, and miss on a repetitive basis. With the tank being a little below 1/4 I decided to stop and fill up. After filling up, it started up very rough, requiring alot more cranking before catching. Since I didn't know what was going on, and thought I had lost a COP, headed straight home; a 4-5 mile drive.

Went to start it Sunday morning.. Turned the key and it began to crank but stopped abruptly. I gave up not wanting to cause any damage and called roadside. Towing company shows up but can't get their rig up my steep driveway, so he tries to start my truck even after I told him that it doesn't run. To my surprise it starts, but makes a loud, repetitive banging/grinding sound. He shuts it off, and spends another 10 minutes getting the rig up my driveway after all.

Talked to my dealer Monday and found out it was a bad #3 injector that dumped fuel into the cylinder and hydrolocked the engine. They replaced it along with a new spark plug but said it was still making noise.. (No, really?) I was informed that Ford has authorized a short block replacement, but was also told that they had not actually pulled the engine to make a diagnosis, but were sure that a short block replacement would be all that was required. Fortunately with only 19k, this is all covered under warranty and should be done early this week.

I'm concerned that the approach being taken is to throw parts at the problem before doing a thorough analysis. Am I off base, or could other parts of the engine have damaged not visible until they tear it apart? Also, since should I push for a full replacement set of injectors instead of risking another failure? Finally, is there anything else I should be aware of before picking it up?

Thanks all for your help.

 

Yeah, that all sounds about right. They don't necessarily need to disassemble the engine to tell if there's a bent rod caused by a stuck injector, relative and manual compression tests can tell them that. Besides, they said it was still noisy after replacing the plug and injector, normally that means that the rod bent far enough to where the connecting rod cap/bolts are hitting the skirt of the block.

Expect some shortened life from the catalytic converter on the bank that the stuck injector was on as well.

 

Sorry for your problems, glad its covered under warranty.

 

The short block replacemnt should serve you well. I dont see how a hydrolocked engine would damage the head or valve train. If it has, it should turn up in the inspection.

 

Glad to see it will be taken care of under warranty. I'm begining to wonder if mine is going to do it as it has run rough a few times at idel and hasn't done it since October so if mine is going to crap out it better do it in the next 15k miles or stay running fine like it has been since October.

 

Mine occasionally runs rough on startup, and fails to start after a coupe attempts. Its sad Ford knows these injectors are prone to failure but refuse to do anything. I took mine to the dealer and of course they could not duplicate the problem. I have 40k miles left on my extended warranty and might need a new short block before its all said and done. I wish there was a way to document/prove that there an injector is failing so Ford will replace them before major problems occur. That would make too much common sense though.

 

Wow, with all of the trouble people are having with their injectors, does anyone like RC or Bosch make an aftermarket replacement?

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies..

I am very relieved to know that the short block replacement should be sufficient. I do not have much experience with my current dealer; I moved a few years ago and had to part with the dealer who I delt with for nearly 10 years.

Quintin, when they call me to tell me it's ready, I think I'll ask them if they checked the cats for heat damage from the fuel being dumped into it. Thanks for the tip.

vader716, thanks.. I am very glad that I invested in PremiumCare after this experience.

hllon4whls, thanks.. I wasn't sure exactly what a factory short block came built up with, so I wanted to make sure I had everything covered. Nothing scares me more than a dealer-rebuilt engine based on horror stories I have heard about.

silverbullet5.4, I don't think there is any way to document a failure, at least that I know of. In my case the failure happened suddenly. I'm sure there must be something to look for, perhaps the resistance across the circuit drops as it begins to fail. Just a guess...

hmustang & alfack, you bring up something I have not thought of... Should I be asking for a full set of injectors, or is that part of the factory short block replacement? I would think that at this point I have a good argument to ensure that I have 8 new injectors before I pick it up.

Thanks again, and keep the advice coming...

 

I thought they could do a voltage test or something like that across the injectors to see if they might be leaking off? I could be off base here though.

 

Injectors are not part of the short block.
Good luck on the 8 injectors. Warranty will only pay for what failed and any progressive damage. Although I am not a Ford tech, I am a working foreman for Cummins Diesel who both wrenches and from time to time handles warranty. Warranty is warranty and most ( Ford, Chevy, Cummins, Cat...) are all similar. For instance, when we have a cylinder washout from a failed injector, we will replace the FAILED injector as well as progressive damage. I.E.- Piston, liner, rod bearings, mains, oil cooler, etc..., but never all 6. We will test the remaining 5 if they are mechanical. If electronic- there is physically nothing to check. If they are good they are good, if bad than bad. We can check that on the front end with cylinder cutout tests. We will replace the other 5 no problem, that is if the customer wants to pay. Not trying to sound like a D***K, just dont want you to get your hopes up. Sorry to hear about your damage, and I wish you luck.

Quintin should chime in. I think he's a Ford tech. He'll probably know for sure. Hope it all works out for you!

 

I could just imagine hearing this from a "technician". Pardon me while I be completely honest here...

There is nothing "physical" to test about an electronic piece of equipment? Uhh, the injector itself is a physical piece of equipment, now I know that people that do not understand electricity think electron flow is smoke and mirrors, but it IS a physical and observable component. The injector has mechanical moving parts, so please explain this to me how that is not "physical". Also, unless the injector is receiving steady voltage(instead of a pulse signal) the injectors mechanical components are sticking. This can(and should) be tested with a simulated pulse signal and logging the fuel flow of the actual output of the injector vs the designed flow rate of the injector given the specs. If the actual flow of the injector is higher than the intended design, then obviously we have an issue with a sticking injector. Simply because you(or your shop/company) does not have the knowledge/equipment to test the injectors does NOT mean they cannot be tested.

Ok "complete honest" mode off....

Im just tired of good consumers getting screwed by techs or service managers or whoever, who think they are smart. Its dishonest and wrong, I dont care how you rationalize it.

 

Just because one failed, doesn't mean that the dealer can replace all eight. We can only fix what's broken, if one or two or however many injectors failed, those are the ones that get replaced. That sucks, I know.

 

Sorry, should have been more clear. I was speaking of the injectors I work on. Ease off here pal, I am not the enemy. By physical, I meant you can physically check pop off pressure, leakage, etc. on our mechanical injectors. You cannot do the same on our electronic. Our electronic injectors, there are no testing tools except for checking solenoid resistance. You check them on the front end with a cylinder balance/cylinder cutout. Thats it. We are talking about $750.00 injectors.Obviously if there is PHYSICAL damage they are bad. You dont just replace all 6 because 1 is bad under warranty.

" I could just imagine hearing this from a "technician". "

We are a union shop, paid by the hour, so it does not matter to me whether its warranty or not. I am not out to BS, cheat, or rip off any off our customers.I do not get paid flat rate, I am not some evil dark side of the force, trying to pad the bill. ( not implying that flat rate techs do that, it just seems most people feel that way because of a few bad apples ) I get paid the same whether its warranty or not.I just did not want the poor guy getting his hopes up. Obviously my injectors and Fords injectors are different. However when they fail, the warrantable progressive damage is quite similar. So BACK OFF with the smart A** technician bashing.

 

Sorry to hear about your truck.

I'm not sure I'd be happy with a short block at 19k miles...I think I'd be demanding a long block.

Hopefully everything goes together nicely and you don't have anymore problems.

 

Hi Ruger;

Help me out here. Not bashing, just lookin' for info & understanding.

You're saying that there are no testing tools for Cummins $750 injectors?

But you did say they have solenoids. There are specs for flow @ rated pressure, I presume.

So - to me they're not 'electronic'; they're electromechanical (as opposed to the piezo 27,000 psi injectors on some common rail diesel systems - e.g. Audi), like every other electromechanical injector. The electronics is in the control system that pulses them.

Hence they can presumably be tested, as they were presumably calibrated.

I guess I'm having a hard time rationalizing a component that costs $750 with no way to determine their health in the field.

What am I missing here?

The other difference I see is that Cummins will test, if testable, the remaining injectors, but Ford will not. I realize that a bench test may not reveal an injector will fail sometime in the future, though.

And, that I infer there are (at least) two failure modes - actually stuck open (mechanically binding), or a slow leak at the valve seat while closed (overniite cylinder fill). Hmmm.

Thanks.