These Perfromance Tuners???
Originally posted by jpdadeo
If you think the Diablo tuner is as good as the Xcalibrator that Mike does three custom in-depth tunes specifically for your trucks PCM code, go for it.
If you think the Diablo tuner is as good as the Xcalibrator that Mike does three custom in-depth tunes specifically for your trucks PCM code, go for it.
He does a generic. He doesnt put your truck on the dyno and tune it....
Where as the diablo you can.
Thank you, drive thru.
Originally posted by jpdadeo
three custom in-depth tunes specifically for your trucks PCM code
in-depth = Detailed; thorough
three custom in-depth tunes specifically for your trucks PCM code
in-depth = Detailed; thorough
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 2
JP-
Why slam the Diablo tuner? I bought one and I'm totally happy with it. I don't dis the Superchips tuner because I've never owned one, although even Mike Troyer all but admitted that the Diablo blows away the old Superchips tuner. I don't know for certain but I'd suspect that their new Excalibrator tuner will probably match or possibly edge out the Diablo in raw numbers. But that doesn't make the Diablo a POS.
Why slam the Diablo tuner? I bought one and I'm totally happy with it. I don't dis the Superchips tuner because I've never owned one, although even Mike Troyer all but admitted that the Diablo blows away the old Superchips tuner. I don't know for certain but I'd suspect that their new Excalibrator tuner will probably match or possibly edge out the Diablo in raw numbers. But that doesn't make the Diablo a POS.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,409
Likes: 1
From: Sunny FL
Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
JP-
Why slam the Diablo tuner? I bought one and I'm totally happy with it. I don't dis the Superchips tuner because I've never owned one, although even Mike Troyer all but admitted that the Diablo blows away the old Superchips tuner. I don't know for certain but I'd suspect that their new Excalibrator tuner will probably match or possibly edge out the Diablo in raw numbers. But that doesn't make the Diablo a POS.
JP-
Why slam the Diablo tuner? I bought one and I'm totally happy with it. I don't dis the Superchips tuner because I've never owned one, although even Mike Troyer all but admitted that the Diablo blows away the old Superchips tuner. I don't know for certain but I'd suspect that their new Excalibrator tuner will probably match or possibly edge out the Diablo in raw numbers. But that doesn't make the Diablo a POS.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,409
Likes: 1
From: Sunny FL
Originally posted by 4 da boat
Whats the web site fer "Xcalibrator"? Is Cali the only state with smog laws ?
Whats the web site fer "Xcalibrator"? Is Cali the only state with smog laws ?
Originally posted by jpdadeo
Sounds to me like the Xcalibrator is being slammed. If you guys know more about tuning than Mike then that’s a good thing, go for it. I personally don’t know anything about doing an in-depth custom tune so I’ve enlisted Mike to do my tuning for me. I’m sure the diablo tuner is very capable of producing a good tune if you know how to do it; I don’t and I don’t want to gamble on an expensive engine repair due to my lack of experience tuning. Without first hand knowledge I feel safer letting an expert in the field do the tuning. Mike says he goes a lot farther in-depth than the generic tune FATHERFORD says he uses and I take him at his word on this. I hope this explains my position on this subject and let me reiterate that I’m not slamming the Diablo; it’s just not my choice of tuners.
Sounds to me like the Xcalibrator is being slammed. If you guys know more about tuning than Mike then that’s a good thing, go for it. I personally don’t know anything about doing an in-depth custom tune so I’ve enlisted Mike to do my tuning for me. I’m sure the diablo tuner is very capable of producing a good tune if you know how to do it; I don’t and I don’t want to gamble on an expensive engine repair due to my lack of experience tuning. Without first hand knowledge I feel safer letting an expert in the field do the tuning. Mike says he goes a lot farther in-depth than the generic tune FATHERFORD says he uses and I take him at his word on this. I hope this explains my position on this subject and let me reiterate that I’m not slamming the Diablo; it’s just not my choice of tuners.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,409
Likes: 1
From: Sunny FL
Originally posted by FATHERFORD
Mike is also in for the money. He is a business man.....
Mike is also in for the money. He is a business man.....
Originally posted by jpdadeo
You have been implying that Mike just slaps a generic tune on and then gives you some BS how it’s better than the rest. If that’s what you believe then so be it, you are entitled to your opinion.
You have been implying that Mike just slaps a generic tune on and then gives you some BS how it’s better than the rest. If that’s what you believe then so be it, you are entitled to your opinion.
Now, if you can get free updates and other tunes later on, after you ran on the dyno with a/f, you could send that to him, he could make adjustments, send you another tune, and repeat several times as neccessary. I would imagine it would take quite a while for you to get the new tune from him. So being on a dyno, charging by the hour would not be wise at all.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Rock City
Originally posted by FATHERFORD
Only way you can tell is by staying on a dyno with wide band and getting the most you can out of your engine.
Only way you can tell is by staying on a dyno with wide band and getting the most you can out of your engine.
Like I have said before, the 1714 and the xcal are for people who want to set and forget. The diablo is for the advanced users looking for the most power potential.
Either way, the 1714 is not in the same class as the xcal/diablo. With those two being mostly the same price or cheaper then the 1714, there is NO reason to buy the 1714.
Hellbound pointed to me a few minutes ago the Hypertech Hyperpac for the 5.4 3 valves. This would be a sweet device if ...
A)Didn't cost $800
B)Had the ability for custom tunes
C)Didnt cost $800!!!!!!
For $800 a good stand alone could be bought. I hope no one is stupid enough to buy one for that price! If you wanted all those features you could just buy a Diablo tuner and a G-tech and still have atleast 300$ in your back pocket to spend on whatever suits you.
Either way, the 1714 is not in the same class as the xcal/diablo. With those two being mostly the same price or cheaper then the 1714, there is NO reason to buy the 1714.
Hellbound pointed to me a few minutes ago the Hypertech Hyperpac for the 5.4 3 valves. This would be a sweet device if ...
A)Didn't cost $800
B)Had the ability for custom tunes
C)Didnt cost $800!!!!!!
For $800 a good stand alone could be bought. I hope no one is stupid enough to buy one for that price! If you wanted all those features you could just buy a Diablo tuner and a G-tech and still have atleast 300$ in your back pocket to spend on whatever suits you.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma
Originally posted by RED WING NUT
Let's be realistic. 99% of the people that want one of these tuners, will never see a dyno. They want to plug it in, tune it and enjoy it. Just like the Xcalibrator is good for a few more hp over the 1714, the diablo is probably good for a few hp over the Xcalibrator IF you know what you're doing. What does this all add up to? 10 or 20 hp over the 1714 maybe. If you can feel these few extra ponies seat-of-the-pants in these land yachts, I'll kiss your a$$. The only way you'll be able to tell is on a dyno or at the track, otherwise these few extra ponies are useless. I've had Superchips products in numerous vehicles and the biggest improvement is the shifting of the auto tranny. There have been many posts of people using the 87 octane program and then switching to the hi perf. program and the person couldn't tell any difference. That's because 20 hp on these trucks isn't a big gain to be felt. Not bashing any of these products. They do what they do but it's not like strapping on a supercharger.
Let's be realistic. 99% of the people that want one of these tuners, will never see a dyno. They want to plug it in, tune it and enjoy it. Just like the Xcalibrator is good for a few more hp over the 1714, the diablo is probably good for a few hp over the Xcalibrator IF you know what you're doing. What does this all add up to? 10 or 20 hp over the 1714 maybe. If you can feel these few extra ponies seat-of-the-pants in these land yachts, I'll kiss your a$$. The only way you'll be able to tell is on a dyno or at the track, otherwise these few extra ponies are useless. I've had Superchips products in numerous vehicles and the biggest improvement is the shifting of the auto tranny. There have been many posts of people using the 87 octane program and then switching to the hi perf. program and the person couldn't tell any difference. That's because 20 hp on these trucks isn't a big gain to be felt. Not bashing any of these products. They do what they do but it's not like strapping on a supercharger.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,409
Likes: 1
From: Sunny FL
Originally posted by Superchips_Distributor (snip)
The reason so many F-series owners come to us is very simple - we have specialized in this platform for going on 13 years now here at Troyer Performance, longer than anyone else. That is why we get the best results, because that is what we do day in and day out - specialize in the custom tuning & performance modification of these vehicles - many of them every single day, day in day out, week in week out, year in year out.
A bit about the "correct" power gains for the 2004 & up 5.4's.......................
The gains from a "standard" Superchips 1714 Micro Tuner for the 5.4 3V F-150 on 91 octane are a **minimum** of 20+ peak at the rear wheels, with some gaining as much over 26 HP at the rear wheels - that’s over 30 HP at the flywheel, and that’s just on 91 octane - it's even higher on 93 octane. That's on a high-end Superflo dyno, by the way. And in other areas "under the curve," the gains are even higher, as there is more room for improvement there. And that's just with the "standard” Superchips performance tuning. Now with our Troyer Performance *custom* tuning, the gains are even higher at any throttle position or rpm, as is the overall improvement in driveability & powertrain response, etc., because we go much more in-depth, taking a lot more time to do each single program for each individual vehicle, one at a time. So please don't confuse the gains from the "standard" Superchips products (which are great already) thinking those are what we get from our custom tuning (which is easy to do when reading & talking here about so many different numbers) - our custom tuning always gets the absolute best results...
A bit about power gain claims in general - we generally don't use inertia style dynos as many companies do (we will if we have to, and sometimes do just to compare, etc.), like Dynojets for example (which is a great dyno for an inertia style unit at a great price) – when we do, we see larger power gains reported than what eddy-current dynos (like a Mustang or Superflo dynofor the 5.4 3V F-150 on 91 octane are a **minimum** of 20+ peak at the rear wheels, with some gaining as much over 26 HP at the rear wheels - that’s over 30 HP at the flywheel, and that’s just on 91 octane - it's even higher on 93 octane. That's on a high-end Superflo dyno, by the way. And in other areas "under the curve," the gains are even higher, as there is more room for improvement there. And that's just with the "standard” Superchips performance tuning. Now with our Troyer Performance *custom* tuning, the gains are even higher at any throttle position or rpm, as is the overall improvement in driveability & powertrain response, etc., because we go much more in-depth, taking a lot more time to do each single program for each individual vehicle, one at a time. So please don't confuse the gains from the "standard" Superchips products (which are great already) thinking those are what we get from our custom tuning (which is easy to do when reading & talking here about so many different numbers) - our custom tuning always gets the absolute best results...
A bit about power gain claims in general - we generally don't use inertia style dynos as many companies do (we will if we have to, and sometimes do just to compare, etc.), like Dynojets for example (which is a great dyno for an inertia style unit at a great price) – when we do, we see larger power gains reported than what eddy-current dynos (like a Mustang or Superflo dyno, for example) will show - that's the world of dynos for you. We do our dyno work primarily on eddy-current (load-variable) dynos to get the best accuracy possible, and to allow us to do part-throttle work too. From time to time you’ll see a post from someone saying they took their truck we tuned to their local dyno and got 32 HP instead of the 26 we may have told them to expect. Or someone may say they got 24 instead of 28, etc. For example, when Phil Kanarkowski (a fellow F-150 Online member) dyno-tested his Diablo chip on his 2003 5.4 F-150, he saw 30 HP gains at the rear wheels – but then he took it to the track, and compared that Diablo chip to our custom tuning on that same vehicle, and our tuning made his truck run 4 tenths quicker in the ¼ mile! When we did the first custom tuning on the 2004 5.4 3V F-150 (which was our own truck) back when the 2004 F-150 first started shipping, we started off bone-stock with power numbers of 219 HP & 287 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels - and we ended up after tuning at 247 HP & 350 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels. Now that's a gain of 28 HP & 63 lbs./ft. of torque PEAK at the rear wheels - huge gains! But you generally don’t see us telling people that everyone is going to get that - unlike what many manufacturers do, which is usually trying to show the highest possible best-case result they ever saw, we try to be a bit conservative - because it may not be what *every* truck , for example) will show - that's the world of dynos for you. We do our dyno work primarily on eddy-current (load-variable) dynos to get the best accuracy possible, and to allow us to do part-throttle work too. From time to time you’ll see a post from someone saying they took their truck we tuned to their local dyno and got 32 HP instead of the 26 we may have told them to expect. Or someone may say they got 24 instead of 28, etc. For example, when Phil Kanarkowski (a fellow F-150 Online member) dyno-tested his Diablo chip on his 2003 5.4 F-150, he saw 30 HP gains at the rear wheels – but then he took it to the track, and compared that Diablo chip to our custom tuning on that same vehicle, and our tuning made his truck run 4 tenths quicker in the ¼ mile! When we did the first custom tuning on the 2004 5.4 3V F-150 (which was our own truck) back when the 2004 F-150 first started shipping, we started off bone-stock with power numbers of 219 HP & 287 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels - and we ended up after tuning at 247 HP & 350 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels. Now that's a gain of 28 HP & 63 lbs./ft. of torque PEAK at the rear wheels - huge gains! But you generally don’t see us telling people that everyone is going to get that - unlike what many manufacturers do, which is usually trying to show the highest possible best-case result they ever saw, we try to be a bit conservative - because it may not be what *every* truck sees on *every* dyno, there are simply far too many variables - like a 5-7 HP difference just in the placement of the wheels on the dyno, for example. Dynos vary, as do these vehicles. The point is, don’t get too hung up on "dyno numbers" – the truth is most people don't have much real knowledge of dynos or of proper controlled testing procedures to be able to determine the accuracy or legitimacy of all the various “dyno numbers” that get touted about, unless they are dyno operators themselves, or have a LOT of hands on experience & knowledge on dyno testing
The reason so many F-series owners come to us is very simple - we have specialized in this platform for going on 13 years now here at Troyer Performance, longer than anyone else. That is why we get the best results, because that is what we do day in and day out - specialize in the custom tuning & performance modification of these vehicles - many of them every single day, day in day out, week in week out, year in year out.
A bit about the "correct" power gains for the 2004 & up 5.4's.......................
The gains from a "standard" Superchips 1714 Micro Tuner for the 5.4 3V F-150 on 91 octane are a **minimum** of 20+ peak at the rear wheels, with some gaining as much over 26 HP at the rear wheels - that’s over 30 HP at the flywheel, and that’s just on 91 octane - it's even higher on 93 octane. That's on a high-end Superflo dyno, by the way. And in other areas "under the curve," the gains are even higher, as there is more room for improvement there. And that's just with the "standard” Superchips performance tuning. Now with our Troyer Performance *custom* tuning, the gains are even higher at any throttle position or rpm, as is the overall improvement in driveability & powertrain response, etc., because we go much more in-depth, taking a lot more time to do each single program for each individual vehicle, one at a time. So please don't confuse the gains from the "standard" Superchips products (which are great already) thinking those are what we get from our custom tuning (which is easy to do when reading & talking here about so many different numbers) - our custom tuning always gets the absolute best results...
A bit about power gain claims in general - we generally don't use inertia style dynos as many companies do (we will if we have to, and sometimes do just to compare, etc.), like Dynojets for example (which is a great dyno for an inertia style unit at a great price) – when we do, we see larger power gains reported than what eddy-current dynos (like a Mustang or Superflo dynofor the 5.4 3V F-150 on 91 octane are a **minimum** of 20+ peak at the rear wheels, with some gaining as much over 26 HP at the rear wheels - that’s over 30 HP at the flywheel, and that’s just on 91 octane - it's even higher on 93 octane. That's on a high-end Superflo dyno, by the way. And in other areas "under the curve," the gains are even higher, as there is more room for improvement there. And that's just with the "standard” Superchips performance tuning. Now with our Troyer Performance *custom* tuning, the gains are even higher at any throttle position or rpm, as is the overall improvement in driveability & powertrain response, etc., because we go much more in-depth, taking a lot more time to do each single program for each individual vehicle, one at a time. So please don't confuse the gains from the "standard" Superchips products (which are great already) thinking those are what we get from our custom tuning (which is easy to do when reading & talking here about so many different numbers) - our custom tuning always gets the absolute best results...
A bit about power gain claims in general - we generally don't use inertia style dynos as many companies do (we will if we have to, and sometimes do just to compare, etc.), like Dynojets for example (which is a great dyno for an inertia style unit at a great price) – when we do, we see larger power gains reported than what eddy-current dynos (like a Mustang or Superflo dyno, for example) will show - that's the world of dynos for you. We do our dyno work primarily on eddy-current (load-variable) dynos to get the best accuracy possible, and to allow us to do part-throttle work too. From time to time you’ll see a post from someone saying they took their truck we tuned to their local dyno and got 32 HP instead of the 26 we may have told them to expect. Or someone may say they got 24 instead of 28, etc. For example, when Phil Kanarkowski (a fellow F-150 Online member) dyno-tested his Diablo chip on his 2003 5.4 F-150, he saw 30 HP gains at the rear wheels – but then he took it to the track, and compared that Diablo chip to our custom tuning on that same vehicle, and our tuning made his truck run 4 tenths quicker in the ¼ mile! When we did the first custom tuning on the 2004 5.4 3V F-150 (which was our own truck) back when the 2004 F-150 first started shipping, we started off bone-stock with power numbers of 219 HP & 287 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels - and we ended up after tuning at 247 HP & 350 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels. Now that's a gain of 28 HP & 63 lbs./ft. of torque PEAK at the rear wheels - huge gains! But you generally don’t see us telling people that everyone is going to get that - unlike what many manufacturers do, which is usually trying to show the highest possible best-case result they ever saw, we try to be a bit conservative - because it may not be what *every* truck , for example) will show - that's the world of dynos for you. We do our dyno work primarily on eddy-current (load-variable) dynos to get the best accuracy possible, and to allow us to do part-throttle work too. From time to time you’ll see a post from someone saying they took their truck we tuned to their local dyno and got 32 HP instead of the 26 we may have told them to expect. Or someone may say they got 24 instead of 28, etc. For example, when Phil Kanarkowski (a fellow F-150 Online member) dyno-tested his Diablo chip on his 2003 5.4 F-150, he saw 30 HP gains at the rear wheels – but then he took it to the track, and compared that Diablo chip to our custom tuning on that same vehicle, and our tuning made his truck run 4 tenths quicker in the ¼ mile! When we did the first custom tuning on the 2004 5.4 3V F-150 (which was our own truck) back when the 2004 F-150 first started shipping, we started off bone-stock with power numbers of 219 HP & 287 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels - and we ended up after tuning at 247 HP & 350 lbs./ft. of torque at the rear wheels. Now that's a gain of 28 HP & 63 lbs./ft. of torque PEAK at the rear wheels - huge gains! But you generally don’t see us telling people that everyone is going to get that - unlike what many manufacturers do, which is usually trying to show the highest possible best-case result they ever saw, we try to be a bit conservative - because it may not be what *every* truck sees on *every* dyno, there are simply far too many variables - like a 5-7 HP difference just in the placement of the wheels on the dyno, for example. Dynos vary, as do these vehicles. The point is, don’t get too hung up on "dyno numbers" – the truth is most people don't have much real knowledge of dynos or of proper controlled testing procedures to be able to determine the accuracy or legitimacy of all the various “dyno numbers” that get touted about, unless they are dyno operators themselves, or have a LOT of hands on experience & knowledge on dyno testing
Last edited by jpdadeo; Jan 23, 2005 at 03:04 PM.