It's obvious that synthetics are very popular here and sometimes I've thought about changing but just can't see a good enough reason yet. I do believe that the synthetics have marginally better specs but at what cost? Is it really worth it or necessary? Believe me I don't skimp on cost on things but try to apply sound logic in all decisions. I've never had an oil related problem even on high mileage engines and have used Castrol GTX for decades. If the synthetics provided better performance that is one thing but if longevity is the sole issue my thoughts are that the vehicles will fall apart in other ways first as opposed to having oil issues. I've read all the posts and I know Porsche, Rolls Royce, Vipers, etc. use synthetics but even they probably acknowledge (behind closed doors) that it's not necessary. It's all marketing and perception. I'm not trying to **** off the majority here but would like to hear some unbiased substantiated opinions.

 

I cant agree nor disagree with you because I think Castrol GTX is a great oil, but I do use Castrol Syntec in the motors I most care about (after proper break in)

The best example of the 'greatness' of synthics is non motor related, but interesting anyway:

When I was younger I had this skateboard that I would use with my roomates to cruisethe boardwalk from bar to bar

We were all pretty broke all the time so when I needed new bearings from the board going into the sand too may times, I tried everything to make them last longer, ~WD40, few drops of motor oil, etc. Finally I sprayed on some of that synthetic spray lubricant and the bearing lasted FOREVER after.....

 

Are synthetics necessary? Simply - No. Are they of better quality and take more punishment than a regular old dino oil - Yes. Using a decent quality dino and sticking to regularly scheduled maintinence scehdules will in all likelyhood provide service for the life of the vehicle with no problems.

Cost wise, they aren't worth it unless you extend your service intervals. Others may differ because of the peace of mind factor, but economically, it is true.

 

zjr150 - Like gopher said, if you adhere to a regular change interval and use a good "dino" oil, you will get very good engine life. BTW, "GTX" is considered by many to be an excellent oil. A very good site for oil-related information is www.BOBISTHEOILGUY.com.

IMO, synthetic oil makes the most sense for high mileage drivers wanting to extend their drain intervals to cut down the number of yearly oil changes. However, to safely go longer between changes, the oil must be checked by oil analysis to establish the maximum safe interval.

 

Sometimes its hard for me to see the other persons point of view. Call it brainwashing or common sense I don't know.

Take for instance the synthetic issue, under all but a few circumstances synthetics will outperfom convention lubricants.

Maybe someone can help me understand why someone would want to use a less expensive lubricant and change it more often and get less performance when doing so. I just can't seem to understand it. Yes I am an Amsoil dealer, but I would really like to learn the thought behind this??


Other areas of interst. To include why in the world are we still building houses out of wood??? Concrete is the way to go, it is marginally more expensive, but in the long run it will last longer, and perfom better.

3rd area of interst, why are we still using gasoline engines, when diesel engines outperform in most cases? (MY Jettat TDI gets 50+ mpg and has more power then about 90% of the 4 bangers on the road)

Does this have to do with our throw away society?? I mean when I look to buy something, I usually(about 95% of the time) look for something that will last.
For instance, I have a pair of redwing boots that are 7 years old. They are still in great shape.


Maybe it's me that is looking at it the wrong way, I don't know.

 

"less performance" is tough statement to define. What is less performance? Does it mean less oxidation resistance, thermal resistance, less shear resistance, etc? Only if you are only looking at the oil itself. In that case, then yes, dino oils offer less "performance". If you look at the engine though, all those things aren't neccessarliy as important as the service life of the engine itself. For example, the F150 engines are designed so that roughly 98% of them will make it to 150,000 miles without an overhaul. Are synthetic oils a requirement to meet this goal? No. Fact is that any decent dino oil that meets the specifications laid out by Ford will get the engine there. Its been done for years and years this way.

Synthetics in some respects are simply over engineered oils. They greatly exceed the minimum properties required and provide additional protection that may or may not ever be needed. They generally cost 2 to 4 times as much as dino oils that meet and exceed minimum requirements. Therfore, unless you are willing to extend drain intervals, synthetics are simply nost cost effective unless it gives you peace of mind.

We don't build houses out of concrete for many reasons, most of which are related to cost. Fact is concrete houses are still more expensive to build than wood homes. They are also more expensive to remodel and fix up if you should ever desire. If they were cheaper to build, you would see a ton of them being built already.

Small diesel engines are not popular here for a couple of reasons: 1. GM did a great disservice by trying to introduce diesel engines in the early 80's. They ran like crap and still give diesels a bad rep today. 2. Environmentalists freak when they hear diesel being used in the US. 3. Diesel is popular in Europe because taxes on it are much lower than gasoline. Both gas and diesel are cheap here in the US, giving diesel a small fuel mileage benefit with limited cost implications. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a baby stroke in my F150! DaimlerChyrsler also announced that in 2004, it will begin to offer Diesel powered Liberty's, in an effort to meet CAFE regulations.

Everything we build has a design life. For the design life of a car, dino oils will get you there for the same cost as synthetics can. In my neck of the woods, you might be able to make an engine last forever, but then what do you do about the body and frame? They'll all be rusted to hell! If its not one thing, its another.

Don't get me wrong - synthetics are good. Just not necessary, IMHO.

 

I guess like Gopher said, it depends on exactly what 'outperfrom' is. If we both buy a new truck tomorrow afternoon, I change my oil with a good dyno oil every 3,000 miles for about $10 and you change yours with a good synthetic every 5,000 miles for about $35 - 5 years from now we both hit 200,000 miles with no engine problems who really 'outperformed' who? You would have spent $1400 on 40 oil changes protecting your engine and I would have spent $666 on 66 oil changes protecting mine. Although I would have had to do an oil change a third as often, I wouldn't have paid less than half as much... And that's with someone that drove 200,000 miles on the same truck that may see the added long term benefits of a synthetic which doesn't apply to the majority of us. I use synthetics personally, and think there are absolutely benefits with a quality synthetic and situations where useing a synthetic oil makes sense - but with that said I can absolutely understand why someone would prefer to stick with a quality dino oil. With how long most people keep vehiciles now days, IMHO the vast majority of people out there would be smarter useing a quality dino oil and saving there money.

IF on average useing a dino oil would last 250,000 miles tell the engine lost compression and needed a rebuild vs a synthetic lasting 300,000 or even 400,000, (which certainly isn't proven to be the case) how many drivers out of 100 do you think would ever still be driving the same vehicle long enough to enjoy the added milage? Maye 2 or 3 at most? IMO, of the other 95-97 drivers, not all, but the majority would probably in more cases than not be smarter useing a quality dino oil.

 

Ya but the way I see it as your changing every 3,000 when you should be doing 5,000. And synthetics in most cases(about 80% of the time) can be made to go 3 times that easily were talking 15,000 miles then. The cost is a mute point.
Will the engine last long with the synthetic? Does it matter when you are only shooting for 150,000 miles?

My step-dad said he has only changed his oil 2 times in his 94 ford ranger with over 100,000. When I talk Amsoil with him he say's what for when I can do that with any old conventional.

So maybe I'm the dummy??

 

I realize that people have misconseptions from the 70's, but that doesn't have to be so. Heck it seems like every other truck on the road is a Power Stroke or a Cummins. I feel if they made more commercial about it then more would buy it.

I took a friend for a ride this weekend in my TDI and he was amazed at the power. Then I told him I usually get over 700 miles to a tank of fuel(14 gallons) he couldn't believe it!!

 

The reason that I believe we dont' use superior building materials is becuase of the way houses are marketed.

When someone looks to buy a house they compare what they get for what price. you buy a conventional house say 1800 sq ft for $120,000. Who in their right mind would buy they same house but made out of superior materials say for $150,000??

But look at the advantages, superior effeciency(40-80% savings on heating/cooling) you pay less for insurance, both fire and damage.

Do you live in a tornado area?? hmm it seems to me recently in TN/MS/OH a bunch of people died or lost their homes from tornado's would that have happened if it was built out of superior material?? What is the cost of 1 life????

Okay, flash forward 100 years. The modern built wood house is probably looking pretty bad by now. Wheras the superior concrete house is looking good. (In europe houses are measured in centuries, not years!!!)

Sorry to get off topic, but I guess I'm just different. I drive a BMW motorcycle that should say something, who the heck put 100,000 on a cycle?? Surely not a Harley Davidson!! Some hondas yes, but there are more BMW motorycles with over 100,000 miles than any other motorcycle.

I use the best oil that I can buy. This is more cost effective for me than to change it every 3-5 thousand. I just don't have the time, and time is money!!!

 

Yes, I do live in an area that sees tornados (not many - but some). What do you think the odds of being hit by a tornado in a given year is? While I realize this varies by region, it is generally a pretty low probability. This is called risk analysis - analyzing the odds of a given event, and then designing to meet a certain level of protection.

I work in drainage design (like storm sewers and flood control type projects). We have to design things based on risk analysis - ie: what are the potential losses vs. the odds of a given event happening. In many cases, the costs of building something to a certain level exceed the benefits (ie potential losses) of the event happening. That doesn't mean the event couldn't happen, just that the probability is low.

I like to tell people I can build a flood project that will guarantee that they will never flood in anything less than needing to build an ark, but they can't afford the price tag. Conversely, I can build something that will protect them nearly all of the time for a fraction of the cost.

As sad as it is, life does have costs associated with it, and it is ised in firguring out damages from natural disasters.

In any event, it does come down to money. Oils can be viewed the same way - what gets the job done for the least amount of money?

 

Guys, the subject matter is kind of getting off track here. The best oil is the one that individually we are comfortable with as long as the required maintenance is performed with each. Both engines will probably last as long as we keep our trucks whether it be synthetic or dino. With that said, I have been using Chevron Supreme motor oil in all my vehicles. The main reason is because I sell for a Chevron distributor.

 

Hey guys,
I did a general search on "motor oil" and found a lot of stuff including the "HowStuffWorks" site which had some info & links including an article called "More than you ever wanted to know about motor oil" by Ed Hackett. I'm now more convinced that sythetics are superior. But of course they may not be as cost effective depending on your oil change intervals as STX/98 pointed out. I tried to post the link below. Thanks for the responses.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm

 

Navi Man,

I finally found a post on which we can agree! HELP!

 

Uh Oh! I guess there is a common ground for everybody Tex. Have one on me.