I have been playing with my new atuotap software for an unrelated project, and I noticed that my Flex-a-lite fans come on at ~ 196*( ~ 91* C ) for the 60% run speed.

In ~ 80* temps driving they cycle on and off, I don't know for sure if I have hit the 204* for them to run at 100%.
My question is aimed at:
I thought I read somewhere that the engine needed to be at 210* to 215* for max perf of the engine and emmisions ( this was from a thread that someone posted on a lower stat ).

I would not have noticed this if I had not been taking intake temp reading, and the config I run has the engine temp on the list so I see it now.

Just a question if I am running the engine too cool for max perf ( again hp and emissions ).

 

That's exactly what I wanted to know. I just installed FAL #270 yesterday. I'm not sure either what the setting should be. Right now I have mine at 194* at 60% and kicks in 100% at 204*.

I hooked an AutoXRay scanner on my truck and noticed the temp stays at 194*-196* constantly but the funs are running nonstop. Do I need to raise the temp sensor higher? When I had the stock fan clutch on, it ran a around 202*-206* in normal driving.

 

Dunno if this helps you any but I pulled my (~5,000#)cuddy cabin to Lake Michigan last week with the AutoXRay plugged in. About an hour each way in heavy traffic. I have an '01 Scab 5.4/3.55 with the 2.2" radiator and trailer tow package. Outside air was 97*. AC on full blast.

Also thrown in the mix is the ASP underdrive pulleys. Coolant temp stayed around 204* for the most part, but it did "peak" at 208*.

Like I said, I dunno if this helps you any. I *Do NOT* have electric fans (yet).

 

Can either of you tell me what the water temp is during normal operation in relation to the engine temp at cylinder #1 displayed while running in self-diagnostic mode? I don’t have a scanner and my mechanical water temp. gauge hasn’t arrived yet.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Mine runs 190-194 degrees in self-diagnostic mode...2001 5.4 liter, stock stat, stock fan and 1.1" radiator.

 

I thought that the HEC was the same as the coolant temp, guess I should RTFM the FAQ to see for sure.

Maybe I should be running this for a comparison, rather then the software. This might provide more options for comparison.
I will take a look at HEC vs Autotap coolant temp, to try to find a delta if any.

So far :

Software :
204* - 208* ( stock fan w/ ASP underdrive pulleys )
194* - 196* ( FLX-270 )
202* - 206* ( Stock fan )
196* - 198 * ( FLX-270 )
194* - 201* ( FLX-270 / city diving )

HEC Instrument :
190* to 194*( Stock Fan )

If someone else gets the HEC to software compare befoe me, please post it.

Another question did you hook up the neg input fan on control ?
I did not see a need for this, as I do not race, and knowing my luck I would leave them on and kill the battery.

 

I gotta go out and do a bit of running around this afternoon. I'll throw the scanner back in the truck without a trailer and get other numbers. I'll post later on today.

'01 Scab/ 5.4/ 3.55/ ASP pulleys and 2.2 radiator

I'm following this thread as I'm thinking about E fans too.

 

Thanks for getting some additional numbers.
BTW search on electric fan*, and take a look I thought there was something about using them with the underdrive pulleys./ Don't know what for sure, I don't have the ASPs.

When I'm out later I'm going to run the HEC instrument temp vs the autotap temp, to see what the delta is. I need to log some more time with intake temp anyways.

 

Nope. Unless I have some type of cooling problems, I think I'm gonna pass.

I have the 2.2" radiator, ASP pulleys, 3.73 rear. This morning, I did a 45 mile run city and hwy. On the hwy, it stayed at 197*, City it was between 194*-201*. That was using my scanner. But I do notice it stays on all the time in city driving, but can't tell on the hwy. I'm long overdue for a coolant change, so I have to do that soon.

 

I added a switch to activate the fan via negative signal. This override can only occur when there is 12v source, which I wired to be present with the ignition switch on. So, I can’t leave the fan on while the ignition is off. One thing I noticed about this switch though is that it must be off to transmit a negative signal to activate the fan. So, basically I have to leave the switch on to not engage the manual override and the switch seems to get really hot! I don’t know if I need to find a more suitable ground or what so I unplugged it for now. Also, I plan to use this switch in the winter to turn the fan off when the defroster goes on and kicks on the A/C compressor override. I will just move its terminal location on the fan from the on location to the off location. Unfortunately I don’t have the 2.2 radiator and hot weather, slow in town speeds and AC on put me over the +100c as far as cylinder temps go. This is too hot for my liking, so I’m running water wetter and am thinking about a Cobra water pump to resolve the issue since I don’t want to give up the ASP pulleys.

 

Do you know if it is at 60% or 100%. I don't know if you know the turn on temp, but if this is 10* deg less then the current, they are running at 100%.

Just out of curisoity if it is running 100% for the city driving.

Last night after taking some intake temp reading, I noticed that the fans were off when I pulled into the drive, but I got out with it running, and when I walked around the front of the truck, they kicked on as I passed. I think it was in low 80s last night, and the humidity was high ( don't have my note book to verify this ).
The driving type was open highway 55+ mph with ~ 2 mi of 25 mph driving on the surface streets to my house.

 

Is this a common problem with the underdrive pulleys and the Electric fans ?

I though I read something about the combo, but could not recall what it was.

Just another item for what seems to be an Electric Fan FAQ that is developing here.
Once I get enough info and data points I will post another Thread with the topic of Electric Fan FAQ, so others that are looking at the same mod can check out a collective info source, and links to various threads.

Before I go any further...Thanks to all so far that have given input, from myself and all those who are looking at doing the same mod. and if you have any input Fan kit mfgr does not matter, and if you get the temp from the HEC instrument cluser or software, it all helps.

 

Doing some running around in the burbs this afternoon with air temps 92 to 94*f, the AutoXRay said 204* to 206* 95% of the time. Temp hit 210* for a moment when engine came up to temp and it would creep to 208* once in a while at a stop light. OD was used most of the time. AC on full blast.

I didn't hear the fan clutch engage, btw. Haven't heard it since the pulleys. '01 Scab/5.4/3.55/2.2 radiator and ASP pulleys.

How well does Water Wetter work? Any comments? I've looked at it a couple of times at Pep Boys but not hard enough to reach into my wallet.

 

I don't know if this helps answer any questions on temps, but I believe our trucks produce the best H.P. when the engine temps run (200-210 degrees?).

If the electric fans are moving the same or more CFM's across the radiator than the clutch fan we should not have a problem with overheating.

I have checked my coolant temps several times after driving around the City and the temps always seem to hold around 200 degrees after the engine is warmed up. We have had temps here as high as 100 degrees and my engine coolant temp is still holding at 200 degrees even after driving around for more than an hour.

My first fan kicks in at about 190 and my second at about 200. After driving around town and pulling into the garage I have actually seen my second fan cycle off for a couple minutes then cycle back on.

I really believe we are in good shape as long as we stay in the 195-215 degree range. It may even be alright if it occasionally got a little higher for a few minutes, but since mine doesn't seem to do this I have not checked to see what temp is considered too high.

One more thing to add, I am running a 180 degree stat which may be why my temps are running slightly lower than some of yours. It would be nice to know how much of a H.P. difference there is between 200 degrees and 215 degrees.


Rocks

 

I used a Raytech thermal gun to set the temp, it has a laser on it and you point it on an object and it gives a digital temp readout.With it I was able to set my fans (FLEX 270) to come on when the coolant temp was 175-180 in the area of the sensor in the radiator(inlet hose from engine). They don't run when the truck is in motion. I belive Ford sets the fans in the Crown Vic to come on at 205, GM 's are even higher.

As long as air is passing through the rad, they stay off, even at very low speed, and when I stop, they come right on, or soon after, and cycle on and off.

The tank can can be at 180 and the core at only 130, as I found with the gun. temps varied all over the radiator.

The most impressive is the A/C unit, it got no hotter than 104(avg 100-101), these things will burn your hand when operating.

When they heat up and the liquid expands, the pressure switch(near battery) cuts the power to the compressor, yet with the fan in place it kept it cool enough that it never needed to cycle, result is "ICE COLD" A/C, and an A/C system that will last longer, due to running cooler and cycling less.

I also installed the MarkVIII water pump, aka "Cobra-R" for $71.00

 

SSCulley- I raised the temp control alittle today. I now have it set 197*@60% And 207@100%. Sorry, I can't tell what % when I'm driving. I think it would be at 60% when it stays 197-200*. But I can definitely here the difference when I stand in front of the truck and adjust the controller back and forth.

Also, when the truck is at normal temp and I turn off the truck. The fans stay on for about 5-10 seconds. It does it all the time.

 

Hello Jupiterak,

I don't have the flex a lites, I went with the performance products kit. The instructions that came with mine said to set the first fan to come on 10 degrees above the thermostat, which is a 192 or 193 stat. That would make the first fan come on at 203 and the second come on at 213.

I am beginning to question my desicion to put in the 180 degree stat. When I first talked to Mike T. at performance he did not seem to think it was such a great idea. After thinking about this I am wondering if I am loosing much H.P. by running mine at 200-205 instead of the 215 that I believe I have seen around the boards.

I am planning a call to Mike tommorrow to discuss a few other mods, I think I will ask him if he has any data from dynos concerning H.P./Temp relationships.

Crap, first I put in the 160 stat thanks to reading some advertising B.S., then I put in the 180 thinking Lightning, now I guess it's time to go back to the stock stat.

I'll pass on what I hear from him.

I think SSCULLY has a good idea starting a thread for these fans, since there seems to be more and more of us getting them.

Rocks

 

Rocks, Thanks for the details. The FAL instructions didn't state anything about operating temps. I'll give that a try tomorrow and set it about 202*/212*.
I'm also waiting for my 2 bottles of Redline Water Water so I can change the coolant and I'll probably buy a new heavy duty thermostat while I'm at it.


I do have a question for everyone with electric fans:

I notice my engine compartment is hotter because of the fans sucking hot air from the radiator and towards the engine. I'm starting to think this may hinder perfermance with open air filters kits (aka FIPK's) because of the hot air circulating around. Anyone, else thought about this???

 

That is about where mine is right now. I was thinking I needed to raise it another 5* F, per what Rocks posted.

The shut off is the same for me, there is a timer in the VSC that runs the fans after the ign is shut off, if the fans were in cycle at the time.

Tonight running errands is was 89* ambient air temp, and the HEC Instrument showed 92-94* C.
Tomorrow the laptop should be charged so I can run the HEC vs the AutoTap compare on the temps.

 

A few of the L members use this in the intercooler, with so far good results.

I have not seen it used in a radiator yet. Maybe checking out the L forum to see if anything new has come up.

Thanks for the additional input today.

 

Funny you mentioned that. I thought the same thing about my engine compartment, but thought maybe it was just that I had never spent alot of time in it and had not noticed it before.

The only snag I could think of with this was that the factory clutch fan is also a puller. So I did not see how one could be hotter than the other.

Rocks

 

This is the topic that started this thread for me.

I was taking the autotap reading on intake temp for the K&N FIPK to compare to the what is now looking to be a WMS tube / JLP combo franken FIPK / air ram, when I noticed my coolant temp reading was below 200* for the most part.

I wanted to see if the setup similar to the one that ROUSHFAN-1 has installed was really considerably cooler then the K&N FIPK.

The JLP air ram air box is a 5 sided enclosed air box that is attached to the MAFS, adn the top is mostly blocked by the hood.

The K&N FIPK elbow to the T/B is too long in the part that is forward of the T/B ( length wise w/ the truck ), and could not be used for the MAFS to T/B connection part. I need to order a WMS velocity tube on wed, to try again.

Right now I have the Air Ram on the drivers side of the air dam, up the inner flender well to the stock opening.
Once I get the WMS V tube, is if fits I should be ready to go with the second air ram / intake from the pass side of the air dam to the bottom of the air box.

With or without the electric fans, I have noticed an intake temp of 106* with the K&N with the ambient air temp ~ 85*. So the Electric fan kit pulling in the hot air at a higher CFM in moderatly high temps is a non issue. I have not had a 100* day again to check the intake temp, and this is when I noticed the worst performance of the K&N, sitting in traffic. \
Once traffic broke loose, the perf picked up again, I guess the air flow through the eng compartment cleared out the stale super heated air, and allowed in the lower temp air that the PCM could deal with ( maybe it goes off the intake temp scale and the PCM just looses it ??? This is all UNPROVEN, and I am just thinking out loud right now.

This just screams "Hey look at me I'm a geek ! "

 

I hate to ask a remedial question here, but what the heck.

What is the point of water wetter? I am not familiar with the product.


Rocks

 

The actual science if this Iam also unsure of, but the 5 cent tour is that is helps the coolant / water mixture dissapate heat better then coolant / water alone. This is what a few L owners have used this in the intercooler, trying to get additional drop on the intercooler temps, and get denser air into the S/C for combustion.

Like I said that is the 5 cent tour, someone might be better suited to proved some indepth details that I have no idea about.

 

Check out the Lightning guys, alot of them are using it as well. I also saw a product called Be-Cool at the local autoparts store, which is supposed to be like Redline. But haven't heard any remarks about it.

Here's a link for Redline.

http://www.redlineoil.com

 

Just went ahead and did it.

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...480#post655480

 

With the log taken today.
The outside:
ambient temp : 92* F
humidity : 38%
Heat index : 93* F

The HEC ranged from 90-94* C.
The autotap software ranged from 194 to 201* F for the log.

It seems as if the HEC and the Auto Tap software both take the temp reading from the same place.

With the temps today I never crested 201* F on the temp, so I think I am about 5 to 8* too low in the setting.

At this temp the fans were cycling from 60% on to off, and with this range on the software I would say that the 100% never came into play, the 60% speed seems to cool the engine just fine.

BTW : This was with no AC running, I wanted to see where the truck itself was set, before I add the AC into the mix.

[ edit]
Setup a new thread on intake temps and FIPKs FAQ.
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...480#post655480

Any input please let me know.

Steve

 

Does the truck have a 180* stat in it. Rocks' post makes me think that this is the L stat, and the standard stat is 192* ?

Then again I have sigs turned off, so I do not know straight away what size engines we are talking about here.

If everyone could do me a favor, and post the engine that you have ( 4.2, 4.6 or 5.4 ), if you have a sig or not that states this.

I guess I should be taking this into account when making the FAQ on Electric Fans.

I hope that jefflaws comes along soon, so I don't need to get my service CD out, and tell me what the stats are set for

If it is 192*F stat, then the FAL directions say to set it about here ( the feel the hose trick, then adjust until the fans are on at 60% trick ), where Perf Prod says to start is 10* after the stat opens ( the FAL kicks them upto 100% after 10* F raise in temp, so there is only one setting for the FAL users.

Also another item that maybe of note, I read where a L owner toasted his VSC when it was mounted to the fan itself, and after FAL sent him a replacement they told him to move it off the fan. He mounted it to behind the head light, where the sheetmetal is. This is where I put mine out of the gate, don't know if any of the other FAL installs saw this note in a thread.

 

Check out the previous post, seems that they are the same.

BTW don't know if you care, there is a dyno event on Sat 14-SEP-02 down in naperville IL that a L member got going.
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=85138

 

I have a 4.6 and stock thermostat. I chose that temp because if the stat opens at 192, than thats were the motor should be temp wise. I'd like to supply the motor with cooler coolant than what the motor has just sent to the radiator(192) to be cooled.

 

The stock stats are 192 for F150 and 180 for the lightnings. I do believe this goes for all engine sizes.

The performance products kit does come with 2 seperate fans (16" Derails), 2 seperate controllers with 2 dry type sensors that are pushed between the radiator fins just in front of where the water comes into the radiator.

This was one of the reasons I went with this kit. I like knowing that if one fan or controller takes a crap, I have the other to limp home on.

Also, the instructions that I received from Mike T. had me connect a wire from the controllers to a switched ignition source to prevent the fans comming on after I shut off my truck.(No Dead Battery).

Oh Yeah, I have the 4.6

Update.........The best H.P. is seen when the coolant temps are between 200-210 in our trucks.

Rocks

 

Can't say for sure for the trucks, but the mod engine Mustangs have a 2 speed electric fan that is designed to turn on low anytime the ECT reads 220 degrees, and shut off when it reaches 200 degrees. If the fan is on low, and the A/C is turned on, the high fan kicks on until the A/C is turned off.

Take care,
~Chris

 

I have not seen another posting on the F150s ( sorry but 220* seems a tade warm to me ) so I guess this is it.

On at 202*, which would put the 2nd fan on a PPI kit at 212*
The FAL kit 60% on at 202*, the fans step up to 100% run at 212*

Any one else for a temp ?

If not I am setting mine at these and see what happens.

This should put the HEC inst. temp at on at 94* for the first stage.
Second stage 100*. I have yet to have my fans runs at 100% with the stage 1 setting at 92*.

Thanks to all that contributed to this posting to date. All good info

 

I think that 220 is a tad warm also. My temp. seems to always hang between 200- 205, after the engine has a chance to warm up.

Now SSCULLY, I did not go for the "other" special tool you liked.
I went for the auto tap. I am hoping to get more accurate temps from this once I receive it.


Rocks

 

I have mine set at 200*@60%. I did change one thing. I mounted my fan controller on the top corner of the electric fan shroud as the instructions stated. After a long drive, I noticed the controller was hot as h*ll and worried about it failing one of these days. So I got some 1/2" rubber spacers and mounted it between the shroud and controller,so it's raised alittle. It made a big difference. Unfortuntately, I cut my wires as short as possible when I installed the fan, so I didn't fell like extending a bunch of wires and moving the controller somewhere else. Just an idea to think about.

 

I have the VSC mounted on the the sheetmetal behind the pass headlight.
I saw one post from a L member where he toasted his VSC when it was mounted to the Fan housing. When FAL sent his replacement VSC, they told him to mount it behind the headlight.

Just this past week, EasterIsland toasted his VSC on his 270 kit. His 250 kit that he put back on has him mount the VSC on the sheetmetal behind the headlight. I don't know for sure what they told him to do with the new VSC, but he was thinking on putting it the same place as the 250 kit location.

So I'll put another 5* on it tonight.

Thanks for al the replies and help, looks like we have a winner...so far that is

 

SSCULLY,
Why put another 5 degrees on it? In your previous post you seemed to be running right at the 200 degrees mark.

Rocks

 

I am on at ~ 196* and it cycles between 196-198*, where the concensus is that the best HP is between 200 and 210, and ChiDiver seems to have his temp run 204 to 206 range on a fairly consistant basis with the normal clutched fan, and an ASP pulley

I don't know if I have ever see it hit 205 that I can recall and that is even running in 104* heat index.

I have not raised is from the current range of 196 to maybe 200*, where I thought it would be better if I matched the 200 to 205 range.
My top range seems to be your starting range for the cycle on the FAL fans.

That is why I was going to take it up to ~ 201* or so.

Sorry if I typed wrong, but I never got to bumping it to 201 -202 for the 60% on range.

 

Oh, now I see what your saying.

When I talk about my truck being at 200-205 I am talking about where the coolant temp stays. My fans are setting at 190 and 200 turn on temps. Remember, I am also running a 180 stat.

I am thinking that the fan on temps should be set where they keep it running around 200-205 coolant temp., what ever that setting is from truck to truck. It may be different for some trucks than others.


Rocks

 

Good point, I am going to use my AutoTap software and get it set to turn on at 202 I think ( 192* stat, plus 10* that PPI suggests ) and see what happens. I know I busted your hump about the PPI directions, but the FAL directions were for crap to be totally honest.

So the PPI kit seems to run one fan consistantly, and somtimes the second ?

Right now, I do have about a 4* lower turn on temp, by my fans run at 60% and do cycle on and off ( even in those 104* heat index days of testing the intake temp ). I have yet to find a HEC inst or Autotap reading where the fans would run at 100%.
MAybe after I crank up the temp to 200 to 202 ???