Let me start by saying I am in no way any kind of oil expert. There are guys here drdevon, msparks, navi man who know much more than I, but I saw this interestin info on fordf150.net...


www.fordf150.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=568

they were talking about centistoke viscosity of 5w-20 oil. this one guy said he tests oil and the main thing that is checked is centistroke viscosity (CTV) @212 degrees with a 10% margin for error.

the CTV MUST be between 8.2 and 11.3 with closer to 11.3 the better. And going over 12 actually increases friction.

some findings....

Motorcraft 5w-20 syn blend=9.0

Quaker State 5w-20 =8.1

Pennzoil Syn Blend 5-30=10.5

Mobil 1 super syn 5w-30=9.7

so looking at these numbers M/C 5-20 blend is within the protection envelope, QS is NOT, and Pennzoil 5-30 syn is actually better that Mobil One!!!

What do you guys think about this?

http://www.fordf150.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=568

 

...especially since it comes from the termperature regime these engines see in service (at operating temps). Curious, though, what any of these oils would do after 3-5,000 miles of "use", i.e. with the soot and other degradation in effect.

 

Seeing this actually makes me feel better about using 5w-20 motocraft syn bkend in my truck.

I did a google.com search about 5w-20 and it there were dozens of articles about how automotive engineers are saying thinner is better and then trend is towards thinner oil weights as the technology has been steadly improving and they flow tremendously better with less brrakdown.


dr devon what are you using in your truck?

 

I'm not sure what the poster was really trying to reference with his testing of the various oils. Centistokes (CST) is just merely a more precise measuremnt of oil viscosity. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality of an oil.

It stands to reason that a 5w-20 would have a lighter viscosity than a 5w-30 at operating temperature. One essentially performs like a 20 weight, while the other performs like a 30 weight. I would assume the majority of oils that are a 5w-20 would have a similar viscosity to the Quaker State, so it would be impossible to state that one is superior to another just because of the CST. Another thing to consider is the 10% margin of error. According to his own data, that could put the QS at approximately 8.91 and the Motocraft at possibly 8.1, which in reality are extremely close to being identical and both would easily qualify as a 20 weight. Unless I am missing something, it seems almost impossible to make such a conclusion that Quaker State 5w-20 is an inferior oil to anybody elses 5w-20. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of Quaker State as I work for a Chevron distributor, but just didn't see any basis for such a conclusion.

 

 

thanks for the input. That is exactly what I was looking fro from guys like you and devon...is this important info?...is thinner viscosities the wave of the future?


I don't want this thread to turn into a "this oil sucks" or "I've been using 5w-moose drool in my engines since 1948" type of deal.

I want to find data that states what type of protection 5w-20 give us...


I am at 6300 miles, using 5w-20 Motocraft blend (3 changes) and am thinking very, very, very hard about going 5w-30...but if someone can find some sort of data that says 5w-20 is going to give adequate protection then I just rather stay with what Ford reccomends.

Thanks again!

 

I think the poster from Fordf150.net even kind of said it himself when he made the statement that it was really like splitting hairs. I found the information to be interesting, but not real practical for real world applications. I know I was an early advocate against 5w-20, but Ford has definitely put the screws to the newer Ford trucks that require an oil to meet their spec. They can't force you to use a certain viscosity, but the only oil that meets their spec is a 5w-20. This is very common for manufacturers to write a spec that a specific oil will meet. It's there way of forcing you to use that viscosity. Once your rig is out of warranty, then you can choose to use whatever oil you feel will perform best. What's really interesting, is that I have had conversations with Ford dealerships, and many of them are using 5w-30, even though the spec calls for 5w-20. The 5w-20 oil hasn't been around long enough to have adequate history to convince me to use it, but in time it could very well prove to be ok. I'm of the mindset that if you use a quality oil and practice good maintenance, then a 5w-30 and a 10w-30 will work adequate in the majority of vehicles and in time a 5w-20 could fit that bill. As long as an oil is providing good lubrication and the additive package is controlling the contaminants, then the likelihood of engine failure is definitlely lessened.

I agree with DrDevon (who would of thought we would become allies) that it would be interesting to see the test results after 3,000 to 5,000 miles of use. That will tell you how good an oil performs and that can be accomplished by oil analysis. Is an engine oil bad if it fails a torture test of extreme circumstances that will never be duplicated in a real world situation? No. As long as it does its job in the required maintenance program, then it should be adequate. Those that pass extreme tests don't necessarily perform any better under real world conditions either. It just proves that they can handle an extreme load better than others.

 

You can spin it all you want but 5w20 is never going in my engine. I guess you can run all kinds of tests on different oils until you get results that you like. Heat handling and combustion by-product neutralization are the key selling points for synthetic.

 

I wonder if the 5-20 oil is the reason for a tap from my new 5.4 KR that started at 100 mis.? I just sold a 4.6 with 85k and it never skipped a beat or made a noise, so now i buy a 38k truck that under load (in gear,at idle) taps like a quiet diesel. They told me to mention it when i go in for my first oil change.....MENTION IT, YOU BET YOUR A$$ I'll MENTION IT...................

 

Rick99, I am with you and Navi Man. I only use 5W-30 in my 01. Even my Ford dealer only uses 5W-30 they don't use 5W-20. As far as thinner is better, my questions has always been if thats true then why not just use WD40? Thats pretty thin isn't it?

2002Gray Ghost:

You mentioned something about only wanting to use what Ford recommends for our trucks. My take is Ford recommends either 5W-20 or 5W-30. My qualification for that statement is this. Ford's dealerships are representives of Ford, they act on Ford's behalf. If my dealer and some other Ford dealers won't use 5W-20 but only 5W-30 in mine and others trucks then they (Ford's representives "Ford dealerships") is stating on behalf of Ford that not only is 5W-20 recommended but so is 5W-30. The other fact is if I ever had an engine failure based on the oil I use Ford would have to back up their warranty even though I am using 5W-30 because on my work orders when I had Ford change my oil it states right on their that they used 5W-30

 

....I use 5w-30 in my pickup.

Testing on virgin oil (calm down everybody, I said "OIL") is nothing like testing used oil, and this is where I would like to see tests performed on the 5w-20 oils being recommended by Ford. After they degrade (and some do so a surprising amount), who knows what that original "5w-20" has become....a "10w-15"? Hard to say.

It's probably alright, and I have to point out that Navi Man (: D) raises a good point about service history - testing isn't everything; it can't be. Granted, there were many who thought that going to a 5w-XX instead of a 10-XX meant "robbing" the oil of the "good stuff". Turns out, using a lower initial number (the "5" in the "5w-30") is better for cold starts, which we all do everyday.....

Well, I wouldn't sweat using a 5w-XX oil, especially if it's 5w-30 or a synthetic 5w-20 which will not degrade into ash or soot.

 

Thanks for all the insight. I am moving from south Texas to Kansas next week, and will have the truck loaded down (I'm in the Air Force)...I believe I will change over to 5w-30 before the trip (with 6500 miles on my truck) and keep it that way...

Looks like I'll have to change my sig after I put in my new oil...I'm leaning towards Mobil-1...

 

As you all can, see opinions vary greatly on this, but I have an 01 and I have run 10-30 since day one and my engine runs great, trans is another story. They don't run this thin suff in race bikes or race cars or boats, or vettes or porches. Why? Thinner is not better, may work as well, but not better, unless you live in Alaska.
Terry

 

I still remember when manufacturers recomended 10W-40 for engines. In the 70sand 80's plus the early to mid 90's manufacturers were recommending 10W-30 oil. Late 90's to 2001 manufacturers were recomending 5w-30. But 5W-20 NO WAY..............I have always followed the manufacturers recomendations in the persuit of engine life but I draw the line for the pursuit of CAFE.

 

Ok, a long time ago in 1980 or so i conducted my own oil tests for whats its worth. I had this old bike that was very hard on oil. Back in those days Quaker State was highly advertised as oil for the weekend warrior and do it yourself oil changers. At the time i was working at an Exxon gas station and my boss swore to me that Exxon Uniflo was the best oil on the market and laughed when i told him i used QS. He said it was junk. Well being an enginner this peeked my curiosity. I went out and bought 2 quarts of several different oils to test in this bike. The ones i recall were QS, Penzoil, Valvoline, Exxon Uniflo and Castrol. Since the bike was so hard on oil it only took a week of riding to get results. I changed the oil using the 2 quarts of new oil and checked it every day when i got home from a 20 mile ride or so. All the oil started out looking great for the first few days. But it was very clear that there was a difference in durability from the tests i was running. The QS oil was the worst by far. It turned into thick black goo within a weeks time. The best oil by far was the Exxon Uniflo and Castrol. Thes 2 oils continued to look lke oil for several weeks instead of 1 week like the others. This is by no means a definitive test but it sold me on Castrol 20 years ago and its still the only oil I ever use. The Valvoline and Penzoil held up well too, just not as good as the Exxon or Castrol. The big surprise for me was that the QS oil sucked really bad after such heavy TV advertising. Guess you can not beleive everything you see on TV.
Another interesting tidbit. Soon after i got curious about oil filters and went out and bought 5 different makes. Took a hack saw and cut them all open. I have a pretty good eye and could see no functional diffrerence between the $5 filter and the local $1 cheapy. To this day i still use Fram, good quality, good price.