My first oil analysis came in today. I had it done at Blackstone Labs.

11,500 miles on FQR 5.4 engine and about 11,000 miles on oil.

Used Amsoil 5W30 and changed the filter 3 times. Topping off with fresh Amsoil each time.

How would you read this analysis?
Did the Amsoil hold up?
The high wear is supposedly due to low mileage.... The Silicon has me worried. Could that be our K&N????
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"The metals highlighted in the spectral examination are all high, though considering this is still a new engine, nothing is high enough to show a problem. Silicon is high in the spectral examination due to sealers and sand-casted parts. Wear is high due to break-in. No fuel dilution was present. Insolubles (oil oxiadation) were close to the limits at 0.7% showing that the oil has seen some use. Wear and silicon should both improve as this engine gets more miles on it."

*******************************************

1st column = ELEMENTS
2nd = UNIT/LOCATION AVERAGES (my wear)
3rd = UNIVERSAL AVERAGES (average wear of all samples analyzed for that particular type of equipment)

ALUMINUM 8 4
CHROMIUM 3 1
IRON 36 41
COPPER 24 24
LEAD 24 18
TIN 2 1
MOLYBDENUM 4 5
NICKEL 7 1
MANGANESE 3 0
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0
VANADIUM 0 0
BORON 13 49
SILICON 109 28
SODIUM 14 18
CALCIUM 2692 1396
MAGNESIUM 319 630
PHOSPHORUS 1013 905
ZINC 1503 1093
BARIUM 1 0

**********************************

SUS VISCOSITY @ 210F
--------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: 59-72
TEST VALUES: 65.4


FLASHPOINT IN F
-------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: >375
TEST VALUES: 420


FUEL %
-------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: <2.0
TEST VALUES: <0.5


ANTIFREEZE %
-------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: 0
TEST VALUES: 0


WATER %
-------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: <0.05
TEST VALUES: 0.0

INSOLUBLES %
-------------------
VALUES SHOULD BE: <0.9
TEST VALUES: 0.7


*******************************************

ELEMENTS: Elements are quantified in the oil ar part per million (PPM). This list shows the most common sources of elements in a gasoline or deisel engine oil.

ALUMINUM: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks)

CHROMIUM: Rings, a trace element in steel.

IRON: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.

COPPER: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.

LEAD: Bearings.

TIN: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings

MOLYBDENUM: Anti-wear additive, some types of rings

NICKEL: Trace element in steel.

MANGANESE: Trace element, additive in gasoline.

SILVER: Trace element

TITANIUM: Trace element

VANADIUM: Trace element

BORON: Detergent/dispursant additive, anti-freeze inhibitors

SILICON: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, inti-freeze inhibitors

SODIUM: Anti-freeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils

CALCIUM: Detergent/dispursant additive

MAGNESIUM: Detergent/dispursant additive

PHOSPHORUS: Anti-wear additive

ZINC: Anti-wear additive

BARIUM: Detergent/dispursant additive

------------------------------------------


25,000 miles on this oil??? I DONT THINK SO... NOT THIS GO AROUND!!!! AMSOIL's comming out tomorrow!



------------------
Rand

98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)

 

what did the test cost? sounds like you put the synthetic in at 500 miles, isnt that to soon?

 

True that wear metals are usually a little higher on a new engine.

It would probably be good to change this one out.

Are you going to continue to use Amsoil? Would be nice to follow the trend and see what this stuff can do.

Most graphs that I have are higher in wear at eh beginning.

Typically you will probably see those numbers go down great in just a few miles. Probably the most wear occured in the first 3-5 thousand miles. Then probably none at all.

I would not be supprised to see the next analysis have virtually little to no wear.

If you notice though that the Zinc and phosphorus are both higher than typical--These are anti-wear elements.

Also the Calcium which is a detergent used to neutralize acids is still pretty high, over 2 times what the universal stuff is.

Calcium is a very expensive element to put in oil, which is why most others are so much lower.

------------------
Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

I am going to change it today at a Jiffy Job $14 place. I'll put in what ever oil they have and use their cheap filter. I'll run it for a while (1000 miles) and when my new Amsoil filter comes in I'll put in fresh 0W-30. That should clean out any other crap layin around in there?

The SILICON still has me concerned. Think I'm going back to the stock filter. I can't see what else would cause such high readings?

I agree, the viscosity, flashpoint, detergents, and so forth are still holding up with the Amsoil. If it wasn't for the high metals, I probably would go another 5K or so....

GOOD RIDANCE K&N!!!!

------------------
Rand

98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)

 

Oh yea... I did the test at Blackstone Labs....

I think its:
www.blackstone-labs.com

The test is $18.50. They send you a very nice kit for free. Took about 12 days to get the results in the mail. The time was due to the sample getting to them slow! Thats US mail for ya! Mail cost $3.50 or so.

 

Rand,

Can they tell you what type of oil it is (5W30, 10W40, etc) or do you have to supply that information?

 

Just a note about Blackstone. I don't want to shed a bad light on the company since I have never used their services, but this is somethings going on about them over on the Ford-Diesel site.

It probably wouldn't hurt to check it out:
http://forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/u...ML/003260.html
http://forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/u...ML/003736.html


Rand, also I do believe that most of the SI is fromt the gaskets. But as I have said before that the K&N is not as effecient as a paper filter at removing dirt.




------------------
Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

I concur, this test means very little unless a second test is done under the same conditions.

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The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau, Profile Windstream Side Deflectors and Lund X-Terminator Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page

 

Rand: Thank you for the post(s).

------------------
Y2K™ Jim - N8JG@Hotmail.com

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

Rand,
The "Silly" Cone is probably the fresh gaskets and such. I have seen others report this kind of number on a newer engine. It eventually falls into normal range after about 20K or so. Give it some time.

 

Extremely interesting. I dont know too much about analyzing results from oil analysis, but I do similar testing.

It appears the testing strategy may be flawed here because there are no analysis results to compare these to. If a sample was collected at first change, of the origional oil, and a sample collected later when the synthetic was changed then you can do some comparision. Apples to Apples, so to speak.

Also, since the origional oil was changed at 500 miles a lot has happened since--this is a new reman engine. So even if a sample was collected at 500 miles on it, the comparison between the two may not be valid.

Since I am in process of buying a new rig, I will take this challenge and test my oil. I am planning on using the OE motorcraft filter so that will eliminate that variable. I will change to synthetic at my first oil change which will be at around 3,000 miles. That's about 1.5 months driving for me!!! the next oil change with the synthetic will be at around 7500 miles (ford recc interval) unless the oil gets really dirty.

What we really need to do here, to make this a fair test, is also test the oil "before" as well as "after" it has been in an engine. That wont be truly possible in the new rig because it will have possibly a few hundred miles on it when delivered. The reason for that is I will probably have to do a dealer trade to find what I want. But having a sample of the new synthetic analyzed before it goes into the engine would be very helpful and the only real way to do a fair comparision.

Also, you want to take more than one sample to make your results really mean something, statistically. But I dont know how useful that would be here as long as the oil is homogenous and you pull a representative sample. But, I think taking two samples from the oil would be very helpful--prevent bias from getting a slug of something in the oil that may not be representative.

So, I will do this--and use the lab mentioned, unless I can find someone better and cheaper. I will keep you informed!

--karl

 

I have to disagree, I think we learned quite a bit from this test.

1. There was no water present. This has been an issue on many threads. How water can do so much damage to the internal engine parts. Why wasn't there any water? I started out using the Amsoil filter and at 5K I switched to the Mobil1 filters. Not to mention, 11,000 miles on this oil and NO WATER! WOW!

2. With 11,000 miles the Amsoil still had very good viscosity and flashpoint readings. Not bad for 11K?

3. Magnesium was low, but the other additives in the Amsoil package held up VERY well in my opinion. Do these additives diminish over time or do they stay at a constant?

4. Last BUT NOT LEAST, we learned that its probably a good idea to change the fluids at 5K intervals up to about 15 or 20K. In other words, start your Amsoil extended drain intervals after you've broken the engine in!


So there, we actually did learn some things!

I changed the oil yesterday to conventional 5W30 until I get a Mobil1 filter and can locate 10 qts of Amsoil 0W-30.... I'm switching my Honda CR-V over to Amsoil with extended drains! I have 35K on that vehicle.

Took out the K&N and put in a cheap $22 Fram paper element! Noticed a difference in performance today. The Fram is more quiet and feels like the torque curve is more smooth. The engine seems to runs quiter and smoother than with the K&N. But I ost a little low-end grunt!

I will do another test. Next time by the same company. Actually, maybe I'll take 2 samples and send one to Amsoil and the other to Blackstone....

------------------
Rand

98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)



[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 10-28-2000).]

 

Is it Silicon,or Silicone. I thought silicon was similar to very fine sand..I'm confused.... That would make sense if it was the fault of the k/n..I've noticed a very fine dust or sand on the inside of my intake. I thought sand casting went out with the flathead........98

------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Westin nerfs blk .powdercoat
Clear front corners
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper 500HF Security system
On the way/wheels,tires,air dam, etc..etc.......
doin the monochromatic boogie
on the front end.Billet grilles on order
www.my-f150.com
Fender Guitars,ROCK!!!

 

Rand, Email me we can talk!

Silicone is what is left over after dirt has vaporized from the intake. Also Silicone is what some of the gaskets and seals are either made with or used to adhear to the surfaces.
Leaching is where the silicone from your gaskets transfers to your oil.
I would say that is probably 75% of where those high silicon numbers came from.

I had analysis done prior to switching to Amsoil last January, I was using Syntec and have a K&N Filter.
My silicone level was 18 with 2100 on the oil.

Also note that most additives in your oil are there for a reason, and do get used over time. They will dimish, but to what degree depends on each individual engine and that persons driving habit.

For instance someone who hotrods alot would use more zinc and phosphorus. But some old granny only drive 2 miles every day to go to the library would probably use more boron, or calcium and such.



------------------
Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

The way I see it is that the Amsoil is doing a good job and could do better if the air cleaner was better. I believe that some of the Silicon is from gasket material but I also believe that some is becomming abrasive. What I base my evaluation on is that when you have (all three) wear matals Copper, Lead, and Tin it means that you are getting bearing wear. Also the Aluminum wear comes from the dirt(silicon). I don't like to see silicon at levels above 10 ppm but will accept them at higher levels if work has been done or the engine is new that would cause gaskets to seep silicon into the oil. Unless you can see higher wear in addition to the high silicon.

I just threw my K & N in the trash. It's to hard to get the spray oil just right and the last time I did an oil analysis the silicon was 22 ppm in 4446 miles. This is up from the average of the paper filter of 6 in 5000 miles.

The Amsoil would look better and the wear would be lower if the dirt was kept out of the oil.

Sincerely, Kevin