Does anyone know if there is any truth to this article I saw
posted on the Thumper (enduro motorcyles) list? After reading it I was
a little concerned myself about the possible damage I could be doing to
my engine's top end.


>John: If I wrote "subjective" I meant "objective".. I was
>responsible for evaluating re-usable air filters
>for a major construction/mining company that had
>hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers
>to pick-up trucks and salesmen's cars. This study
>was embarked upon due to the fact that we were
>spending upwards of $30,000 a MONTH on paper air
>filters. Using them one time then throwing them
>away.. I inititated the study in that I was convinced
>that a K&N type filter or oiled foam would save us
>many dollars per year in filter savings, man hour savings,
>and of course engines as these would filter
>dirt better than paper. (yes, I had read the K&N ads and was
>a believer)
>Representative test units were chosen to give us a
>broad spectrum from cars right through large front
>end loaders. With each unit we had a long history
>of oil analysis records so that changes would be
>trackable.
>Unfortunately, for me, every single unit having
>alternative re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate
>large jump in silicon (dirt) levels with corresponding
>major increases in wear metals. In one extreme
>case, a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner,
>the secondary (small paper element) clogged
>before even one day's test run could be completed.
>This particular unit had a Cummins V-12 engine
>that had paper/paper one one bank and K&N/paper on
>the other bank; two completely independent
>induction systems. The conditions were EXACTLY
>duplicated for each bank yet the K&N allowed so
>much dirt to pass through that the small filter became
>clogged before lunch. The same outcome occured
>with oiled foams on this unit.
>>We discontinued the tests on the large pieces almost
>immediately but continued with service trucks,
>formen's vehicles, and my own company car. Analysis
>results continued showing markedly increased
>wear rates for all the vehicles, mine included.
>Test concluded, switched back to paper/glass and all
>vehicles showed reduction back to near original levels
>of both wear metals and dirt. I continued with
>the K&N on my company car out of stubborness and at
>85,000 miles the Chevy 305 V-8 wheezed its
>last breath. The top end was sanded badly; bottom
>end was just fine. End of test.
>I must stress that EVERYONE involved in this test
>was hoping that alternative filters would work as
>everyone was sick about pulling out a perfectly good
>$85 air cleaner and throwing 4 of them away
>each week per machine...
>So, I strongly suggest that depending upon an
>individual's long term plan for their vehicles they simply
>run an oil analysis at least once to see that the
>K&N or whatever alternative air filter is indeed working
>IN THAT APPLICATION... It depends on a person's priorities.
>If you want performance then indeed the K&N is the
>way to go but at what cost???
>And no, I do not work for a paper or glass air
>filter manufacturing company nor do I have any affiliation
>with anything directly or indirectly that could
>benefit George Morrison as a result..

Here's the info I have on air filter performance. Tests were done using
SAE J726C Test Method 5-best --> 1-worst

Oiled foam Paper Oil Bath Oiled
Gauze
(AMSOIL, UNI) (K&N)

Large particle efficiency 5 5 5 4
Small particle efficiency 5 4 1 2
Airflow capacity 5 2 3 5
Dust holding capacity 4 2 5 2
Load up characteristic 4 1 5 1
Backfire characteristic 3 2 5 3
Cleanability 4 1 4 3

As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were
designed for. Their original application was on racing engines, where
airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little consern.
They
are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.

Sorry that was so long but I thought it was important!


Paul
'93 xtra-cab

 

That was very interesting. Where did you find this? It makes sense, more air means the openings should be bigger, right? That means more dirt, right? How can they claim to filter better? Or do they? I think I remember K&N saying they filter better than paper elements?

VERY INTERESTING!!!!

Sounds like Amsoils filter isn't any better?

Cheepers Mr. Wilson!

 

Paper for me, please. When K&N first came onto the market, they advertised in the back of magazines. As soon as I realized it was an update of the old oil-bath air filter idea that all cars had in the 50's and earlier, I said no thanks, no way! I realize I may invoke the ire of many here, but that's my opinion.

 

The filtration is supposed to get better as the filter gets dirty (there by decreasing the spaces in the cotton gauze). I found this on another website. K&N claims there filters were tested on helicopters in desert storm, very dusty dirty conditions.

I also question this article because Ford is going to use them as OEM on the Cobra and other vehicles in the future. I personally have not seen any dirt in my airbox or tube, but I will keep a watch.

------------------

The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau, Profile Windstream Side Deflectors and Lund X-Terminator Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page

 

Here is a graph of the SAE J726C
http://www.amsoil.com/products/ts.html

Seem here that the Amsoil filter faired best.

I also think because of the thickness of the foam filter along with the oil will virtually stop more dirt than the K&N while sacrificing less restriction than the Paper

As you notice in "Dirt Removal" the Paper and Amsoil foam filter is a lot higher than the K&N.



------------------
Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

I've noticed that Amsoils site says theirs flows and cleans the best and K&N says theirs does.
Fram claims there are the best thing since white bread.
Go figure?
I do run amsoil oils, but I use the k&n in both vehicles.
My roomie had one in his 5.0 and did his bosses 5.0 and another co-workers z28. In amarillo dust storms are similar to here. No probs. NOt as frequent but they happen.
90,000+ on my friends 350, and no problems. K&N since day 1, here in el dirto.
Had 2 guys at work run k&ns in their dirtbikes and loved em'.

True that a paper could filter better, but who cares, if the oil filer is crap and doesn't do it's job. The oils job is to lubricate, cool and at as the suspension media to remove contaminants into the oil filter. I refuse to use Frams now after reading something from their own engineer.
I used a K&N oil filter and it was larger than other brands and just from what I saw my oil was cleaner at 6000, than usually at 3000. That tells me it is working.
Anyway, every brand touts their own,
no offense on your post T46, no one is going to say buy our competitors cause they are better.

I plan on getting an analysis since i run extended drain intervals, but for 20 bucks or so it is nice to know whats going on in your motor.

------------------
Dr.(wife says i'm spoiled) Jones.
5.4L(whatpowerawaitsthee)
AUTO,SC4x4 anniversary gift. PSD coming for christmas!
djones01@elp.rr.com



[This message has been edited by powerlifter405 (edited 06-21-2000).]

 

I use a K&N filter and have checked the intake tube many times in my truck...absolutely no dust has been present. Nothing at all..like new still...and I have had the K&N in there since I bought the truck.





------------------
2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Superchip, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55 rear, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, Heavy duty shocks, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, factory leather wrapped steering wheel, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99

 

Why don't you send that article to K & N and see what king of response they come up with?

I would be interesting.


------------------
97 F-150, 2WD, Reg Cab,Flareside,Dk Toreador Red, Windsor 4.6, Magnecor 8.5mm wires, Bosch Plat +4s, 3.55 LS, EGR Bug Deflector, ******* Bed Cover, Bed Liner, XL Full Length Running Boards, Air Aid Kit, Gibson Single Out Cat Back, Superchips, TransGo Shift Kit, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, Hellwig 2500# Overload Springs,Energy Suspension Polyurethane Front Sway Bar Bushings

 

I agree with the oil filter doing its job,

As far as the facts, the Test using the SAE J726C is a valid test. Though you won't see that particular test on K&N's site?
http://www.knfilters.com/affacts.htm

I do run a K&N on my F150. And have had no problems. Also my oil Analysis that I done last year had a silicon level of 18 with a K&N on. So It must be doing its job,




------------------
Lube-Direct


New Lubrication Forums

 

If you read the K&N site, they make alot of specific claims. If these are not true then I feel someone would have sued the crap out of them by now. I'm not trying to say that everything they claim is true, but I feel in this "sue happy" society we live in someone would have challenged them by now. Of course the same applies to the AMSOIL site as well.

------------------
2000 Lariat Flareside Supercab, 5.4, 3.55LS, towing package, captains chairs, 6 disc cd changer, Bugflector II and Herculiner Bedliner.



[This message has been edited by 2000Lariat (edited 06-21-2000).]

 

powerlifter,

No offense taken. I realize my post may look like I am against K&N but nothing could be farther from the truth. Ive had a K&N in my truck for 30,000 miles and am about to get one for my second car. I think they're great (as does everyone on the board with a filter or the FIPK). I always want to know all sides of the story which is the reason for my post. I know the filter is doing its job in my truck...but is it the best? Definately brings about good conversation and everyone can add there experience and knowledge so we do whats best for our trucks.

I know I would...hell, its 3 years old and I still look back at least 10 times when I leave it in the parking lot at work.

------------------

The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau, Profile Windstream Side Deflectors and Lund X-Terminator Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page


[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 06-21-2000).]

 

Whenever I look into my airbox, it's like it is brand spanking new behind that K&N. No dust, no dirt, no grime no nothing. Oil is the same, nothing strange or unusual.

Just my two bits.

 

I'd say it's a hoax cuz Ford is using K&N to manufature filters for the SVO program. Have a look...



MOTORSPORT HIGH PERFORMANCE AIR FILTERS NEW

Ford Motorsport SVO is proud to announce the arrival of its new line of high performance, Ford racing blue, air filters for most popular Ford applications. These filters are produced to Ford Motorsport SVO specifications by K&N Engineering, Inc. With 44 fuel injection applications this new line-up promises to have something for almost everyone, including two universal cone filters. This product reduces restriction in the intake system. These new filters are reusable because they can be cleaned and re-oiled, with the Ford Motorsport SVO filter recharger kit, for years of service. Ford Motorsport SVO offers car kits for most popular applications from Escort to Taurus, and truck kits from Aerostar to Windstar, and of course Mustang and F-150 kits. Additionally we offer fuel injection performance kits and off-road performance kits.

http://www.oemfordparts.com/partdeta...&CategoryID=47


------------------
'99 F150 SC, 4x2, Oxford white, flareside, 5.4, 3.55 rearend,
bodyside mouldings, Snuglid hard tonneau, K&N dropin, airbox and frsh air mods.
Duraliner drop-in (gave up on the Penda Nascar). Gibson Supertruck. Ford 2-piece bra. Catch-All floor mats. Image tail light covers. B-Quiet sound dampener in rear of cab.
No door cracks yet at 10K!!!

 

Two things:

1. If air is moving at a VERY high velocity through your intake tubes and such, how the heck would dirt lay around in there? If ANy dirt is getting through, its being sucked in, burned, and pumped out. Some will end up in the oil... Does not make sense to me! Why wouldn't the intake look "new?" Besides, 99.999% of us drive vehicles on TAR!

2. MS PARKS, bare with me please... SAE J726C??? What the F*CK is that? Who the hell knows what a SAE J726C is? Sounds like Exxon touting its fuel cause its got XCL-12. They forgot to tell you that Exxon has the lowest energy output of the fuels. Besides, they hire drunk sailors! Secondly, if you did an oil analysis last year, why don't you post it??? You could have stopped a WHOLE LOT of arguements with that one! Lastly, a "Silicon level of 18" doesn't tell me SH*T! As a rep/salesperson for Amsoil you should explain things better to people than using vague statements, atomic weights, acronyms, chemical formula's....... Is 18 good? Whats bad? Whats acceptable? How did conventionals hold up? What oil filters? How many miles? Any dirt roads? Any articles out there about this type of thing? Any web sites with explanations of Silicon levels and other contaminants? Yadda yadda yadda....

 

Rand:

I think you get way too excited over nothing.
I don't think anyone was intentionally trying to avoid any truths or be evasive about anything. I think any information provided is better than none. Why kill the messenger because they didn't give a training class right here on this forum. I think that pointing people in the direction of where to find the information is more than adequate. MS Sparks indicated the information was on the Amsoil site and could be found there. As far as the oil analysis, if it were me, I wouldn't have put the analysis out there either. If someone wanted it, I would have emailed it to them, but not posted it here.

This site is a place to post experiences and information, but it I don't think someone should "expect" anything. Nobody here is under contract to provide such information. A lot of times people are just being courteous and don't want to take a chance on posting something they are not 100% sure of, etc.

I appreciate any info I get here. I never take much verbatim here though. I normally use what I get here as a means to do further research on my own to find out about the topic of discussion.

Am I off base here??


[This message has been edited by 2000F150Fun (edited 06-22-2000).]