Winsor vs Romeo differences

Old Dec 21, 2001 | 11:04 PM
  #1  
Stang2's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, SC.
Winsor vs Romeo differences

This is one of the tech articles from: http://www.tccoa.com/articles/engine/index.html#
It's a T-bird site, but contains alot of good info on
some of our engines, trans, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The 8th digit in your VIN number reads a W, it is a ROMEO engine. If your 8th digit reads 6, you have a WINDSOR engine.

Differences between the Windsor and Romeo Heads:

Part ______________ Windsor ______________ Romeo
Main Bearings..... larger main bearing caps ........ Uses jack screws
........................... with dowels between the
........................... main bearings and the block

Connecting Rods... Uses larger connecting rods..... Uses a press fit
............................. with a full floating pin and......... pin without
............................. two retainers............................ retainers.

Cam Sprockets..... Uses an interference fit........ Uses a bolt and
............................ between the camshaft.......... spacer
............................ sprocket and camshaft

Flexplate.............. Uses 8-bolts to secure.......... Uses 6 bolts
............................ the flexplate to the
............................. crankshaft.

Oil Pump............... Uses high volume design....... Uses Standard
.................................................. .......................... design

Valve Covers......... Uses 14 bolts........................ Uses 11 bolts.

------------------------- Misc. Information --------------------------
A-Train

In 99 Ford came out with what they call PI heads (performance improved). They are Windsor heads as opposed to Romeo heads.
The Windsor heads use a small journal camshaft and the Romeo heads use a Large journal cam. There are other small differences also but will bolt up to either block. Bolting up does not mean bolt on swap.

The 99 and up 4.6 Mustang uses a windsor engine. The valve lift is .510 intake and .530 exhaust on the Mustang. They would be a better value than the SVO heads for a killer engine build up. EECDOC

Also the 5.4 PI truck heads are the same as the 99 4.6 mustang GT heads(same P/Ns). The heads with cams are $355 each and valve covers were somthing like $70 for one side and $78 for the other side with gaskets.

EXTREMLY IMPORTANT

When swaping for the new heads, the new heads do not have the oil galeys pluged in the back of the head. I recomend that you plug them prior to install. It is a real pain to install once the engine is installed. Just reuse your old plugs.

The port shape on the heads is very different. I recomend that you purchase the 99 plastic intake.

The studs that hold the front cover to the 99 heads are larger so you will need to buy the ones for the 99. The motor will idle fine but misses under load. I think that the engine is lean due to much more air entering the combustion chamber and the computer thinks it has the old heas and is only expecting stock head air flow charistics. I think that is related to having larger valves ports and much more agressive cams that come with the 99 5.4 PI heads. I think that it will require a chip. Make sure that you purchase the came holding tools along with the head change kit along with 99 intake manfold gaskets.
 

Last edited by Stang2; Dec 21, 2001 at 11:09 PM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2001 | 02:02 AM
  #2  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... I just recently tore down a "98" (WINDSOR) 5.4 crate engine with some damage. I'll be building a SHM "RACE" engine out of this soon. Here are some pics :

This pic shows the difference in intake port shapes between the NON P.I heads (LEFT) and the '99" to current P.I heads (RIGHT)
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41173.jpg

This shows the very beefy 4 bolt mains on the 5.4 block. If you include the alignment dowels too, you could pass it off as a 6 bolt main.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41160.jpg
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41159.jpg
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41164.jpg

This is the 5.4's oil pump.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41182.jpg

This is the rear main seal (ONE PIECE)
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41179.jpg

This is the front timing chain cover.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41180.jpg

This is the 5.4's forged steel crank.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41163.jpg

This is the 5.4's powder forged rods and their cracked caps.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41165.jpg

This is the 5.4's timing chain guides.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41178.jpg
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41177.jpg

This is a "99" 5.4 P.I head complete.
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41172.jpg

This is the result after a stupid mechanic drops a 1/4 inch extension down one of the sparkplug holes and decides to fire it up anyway!!!
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41168.jpg
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41167.jpg
http://photos.f150world.com/NEALTHEHPFREAK/41185.jpg
 

Last edited by Neal; Dec 22, 2001 at 02:48 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2001 | 02:16 AM
  #3  
King James's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
From: Hartselle, AL
Thanks for the info. Should be helpful when I stroke and bore my eng. plus whatever else I have done to it.
 
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2001 | 02:53 AM
  #4  
mustang88's Avatar
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Dallas,TX
The eighth digit in my VIN is L. What does that mean?
 
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2001 | 07:50 AM
  #5  
AjRagno's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,704
Likes: 0
From: Mpls, MN
L=5.4L SOHC V8 Gasoline Engine

The eighth VIN position is for the engine displacement and number of cylinders. The codes are:

2 - 4.2L (256 cu. in.) OHV V6 gasoline, Electronic Fuel Injection
W - 4.6L (280 cu.in.) SOHC V8 gasoline, EFI, Romeo Plant.
6 - 4.6L (280 cu.in.) SOHC V8 gasoline, EFI, Windsor Plant.
9 - 4.6L (280 cu.in.) SOHC V8 natural gas.
L - 5.4L SOHC V8 gasoline.
M - 5.4L SOHC V8 natural gas.
 

Last edited by AjRagno; Dec 24, 2001 at 08:37 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2001 | 09:25 AM
  #6  
Y2K 7700 4x4's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,544
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo, MI, USA
Neal: Thank you for the interesting pix. Please post more -- or a link to your web for more.

Merry Christmas,
 
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2001 | 12:07 AM
  #7  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... Y2K : If you go over to my gallery at F-150 WORLD you will see some more pics. I'll be adding more soon as soon as I scan about 60 more pics!LOL!
 
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2001 | 04:02 PM
  #8  
mkoesel's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Hi Neal,

I (coincidnetally) recently tore down a 5.4L Triton also. Your motor
looks much cleaner than mine, as mine had 100k miles on it. I am
building a street/strip DOHC engine. Are you going to go SOHC (I
assume you are, since you have some PI heads)? Are you going
to fab your own intake?

Speaking of which, I got a question about those PI heads you
have. Are you sure those are 5.4L PI heads? I ask because, this
came up recently on the Corral, and one guy there claimed the
5.4L PI heads retained the round ports of the old non-PI heads.
He even posted pictures of such heads, and had a story about
how he bought them the heads thinking they were Mustang 4.6L
PI heads, and then got a big surprise when he got them on the
block and the Mustang Intake would not bolt up.

So it looks to me like those are actually 4.6L Mustang PI heads,
not 5.4L Triton PI heads. (???) Not that it really matters if you
are planning to fab the intake anyway. In fact, I'd say the
Mustang PI heads are better since they have the better flowing
square ports.
 
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2001 | 08:47 PM
  #9  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... MKOESEL : Those "PI" heads you see ARE off of a 5.4 "99" PI engine. I should know they came off of my "99" 5.4 F-150. My dealer gave me some new "2000" "PI" heads when I blew a head gasket. I got my old "99" pi heads from them. They are definately PI heads. I have seen a ton of mis information over at corral. I have some pics of my truck at the dealer with the intake off and you can see the intake ports on the heads. They are the same port shape as the heads in my pics. I'll post some pics tomorrow if I get around to it!LOL! I think the guy on CORRAL got ripped off by someone!LOL! Looks like someone sold him a set of older NON P.I heads. A few months ago I went to my dealer and they give the exact same part #'s for the "99" MUSTANG P.I heads and the triton "99" p.i heads. I know that some people claim that if you install 5.4 pi heads on a 4.6 (F-150) you have to run a '99" and up MUSTANG GT intake so that the intake ports match up. I'm going to be running a MAGNACHARGER at 9 psi on that engine. So running the factory intake does'nt matter since the MAGNACHARGER intake is set up for 5.4 pi heads.
 
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2001 | 10:19 PM
  #10  
mkoesel's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Neal I think you might be right -- I think the guy on the corral
must have been scammed then. Check out the thread:

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthr...threadid=20123

Look ad the posts by Bigscottv. He is the one that claimed the
5.4L PI heads retained the oval shaped ports from the older
non-PI heads. I must admit the heads in question do at least
appear to have the new larger valves of the PI heads. And he
does confirm this. So what sort of mutant heads are these?
Are these actually the SVO heads that Ford racing sells (and are
also a topic of this same thread). That would explain why they
do have the older round ports, but also have the larger valves.
(since the SVO heads were developed prior to 99, when PI heads
did not yet exist). But then, he also claimed that they say "light
duty truck". Very curious!

Also you said:
I know that some people claim that if you install 5.4 pi heads on a 4.6 (F-150) you have to run a '99" and up MUSTANG GT intake so that the intake ports match up.
This must be true, assuming then Triton 4.6L does not use the
PI heads (which is what I have heard and read). The intake ports
would not match up if you tried to use the Triton intake. Actually
that's another thing that makes me scratch my head: If the 4.6L
Triton does not use the PI heads, then how did it gain 11hp in
99 (which coincides with the PI head release and resulting power
increase on the Mustang and 5.4L Triton).
 

Last edited by mkoesel; Dec 23, 2001 at 10:23 PM.
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2001 | 12:56 AM
  #11  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... MKOESEL : I went to that site and looked at the pics. Either that guy got ripped off or he got a set of the pre "99" SVO 4.6 heads. I looked in my SVO book and it appears that is what he's got. But all "99" and up "PI" heads have the squarish intake port with the dimple at the top for the fuel injector nozzle. I talked to a buddy tonight that works at the ESSEX ENGINE plant that builds the 5.4, 6.8 and the 4.6 TRITON engines. He told me that "99" and up 5.4's except the "99" 5.4 that came in the F-250 and bigger trucks got the "PI" heads. The 4.6 from "97 - 2000" have the old NON "PI" heads. He told me that he was for dam sure that the "2001" -" 2002" 4.6's have got the "PI" heads too now. That's how ford got the extra 11H.P from it those years. '2000" and back 4.6's are all 220H.P in the F-150's (TRITON)
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2001 | 07:17 AM
  #12  
mkoesel's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Thanks!

Neal -- you rock. Thanks for clearing up that info. It make
buying parts off of salvage cars/trucks less of a crap-shoot.

The setup you are building sounds sweet, BTW. That is going
to be one stout truck motor.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2001 | 09:53 AM
  #13  
PATDON's Avatar
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: WINDSOR,ONTARIO
NEAL
From a fellow "Windsorite" Can I correct you ? I work at Essex Engine plant. This plant does't make the 4.6, 5.4 or the 6.8.
The only V-8 work done at Essex Engine is the machining of the 5.4 . This is what I do. Our main costumer for our finished block is Romeo Engine Plant. Although in some circumstances we do send machined blocks to the TMEP.( Truck modular Engine Plant.)
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2001 | 01:56 PM
  #14  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... PATDON : I might of got confused on the exact name of the plant. We just have too many FORD plants in WINDSOR! The one my buddy works at is the one on SEMINOLE ST. by the old FORD RACE TRACK. He assembles 5.4's all day. His name is RANDY HINES.
 
Reply
Old Dec 24, 2001 | 01:59 PM
  #15  
Neal's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
Cool

HI!... PATDON : You should meet up with some of the WINDSOR CREW. ME, JMC, IZZY EDDY, HUNTER, ZUB. We usually hang out at the ELIAS parking lot across from KENNEDY HIGH SCHOOL on the weekends. Well at least when it's nice out. This time of year we mostly spend time at the pool hall bars.
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:31 AM.