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Did my best to search, found some similar, but thought I should check-in with my situation.
Recently purchased 2006 5.4l 3v, 120k miles with a typical blown tensioner seal start up rattle with some light ticking noise in the right head that I assumed to be a rocker. Getting phaser knocking on right side at 1000 rpm. I was getting hot oil pressure in the mid 20s (kinda low). I am very new to Trucks, V8s, American, 4WD, and automatics, so I don't have a great baseline feel for what normal performance or sounds. No idle issues before timing job.
So with the power of the Internets and some prior skills I Replaced:
Tensioners (Ford)
Oil Pump HPHV (Melling)
Rockers, All right side (Ford, small oil passage type): 1 was for sure bad, 2 others a bit worn. All on the 2 back cylinders on right. I did swap a used good rocker to the left side for a slightly worn one.
Lifters, All right side (Melling): 1 Bad for sure, the rest seemed pretty good. I didn't do the oil soak procedure as they all felt pretty stiff out of the box.
Cam Phaser w/ bolt right (Ford)
VCT Solenoid right (Ford)
Upper Guide Left (Ford): the small lip on the chain side was cracked off, but the rest was fine.
Spark Plugs (Ford SP546)
10w-30 Oil and Motorcraft Filter
Pulled all rockers when setting timing, used crank align tool. Cam caps, cams, rockers, lifters likely free of noticeable debris, but didn't really clean them out more than a wipe with a towel.
**Now getting rough hot idle around 500 rpm, but never dies. There probably is more rocker noise than there should be on both sides, right seems louder (popped a rocker out?). No CEL. Fine in the higher RPMs drives pretty good. Maybe has a slight hesitation in acceleration from a stop. Power delivery does feel different, but not bad.
Attempted diagnosis:
Pulled Each injector and coil pack connection, and idle got worse with each. 2 coil connectors broken, but seem to be holding with a small amount of RTV used to stick them in place. Ordered new connectors, but haven't installed yet.
Couldn't find a vacuum leak with sound, starting fluid, or soapy sprays around Intake manifold and vacuum lines.
Disconnected VCTs, no idle change
Checked for bent phaser Cam Position blades. all looked straight on both sides.
Replaced right VCT solenoid only after rough idle presented itself. It seemed stuck open, but when I went to go replace it a few miles later it seemed to be in good order. Did it any way, no change.
*Pulled left valve cover to check phaser blades. Found timing chain would change tension radically on return side of cam gear as I rotated crank. Maybe every 1/8- 1/4 crank turn chain would get super slack. I found posts about this being normal from valve spring tension, but seemed like an alarming amount of play. Also saw posts of defective tensioner, and a couple for clogged oil passages in VCT housing or head. I almost decided it must be off a tooth (which it still may be, and would explain a lot), but saw a FTM video saying mechanical timing could be check by logging VCT sensor adv/rtd. Could potentially put wedge tool in, pull several rockers, and remove and rotate cam gear manually one tooth counter-clockwise. Also, I could get a little wiggle out of each rocker, but seemed to be securely in place.
*Brought to mechanic for code check and to see if mech timing was good. Only code that came up was the P0316 (see attached). Nothing really wrong there right? It has been very cold here recently. Guy was adamant mech timing could only be checked by pulling covers. I had seen in the FTM video that it could be checked through VCT logging. VCTs should be sitting near zero at idle. They did include a shot (see attached) of the VCT data along with some startup misfires.
?? If i'm reading this scan tool right, the VCTs are sitting close to zero, which means mechanical timing is good, right??
-Haven't check compression yet or dropped oil pan
Solutions: just some ideas and thoughts
-Is it possible to bend a valve with valve spring compressor tool? I didn't put the rockers back in a particular order, and just rotated until lobe was out of the way enough that I could fit rocker in. Suppose I could have been just mashing the valve into the piston until i had room to install rocker. Broke a spring retainer forcing it into piston?
-Lifters still have air in them?
-Low hot oil pressure. Clogged oil passage seems high on my list of potential issues. Seems easy to have dropped something in, or just a lot of disturbed a lot grime. I never pulled VCT housings to check for debris before or after. VCT screens seemed clear on both sides. Seems like i could
-One or more defective tensioners?
-Stretched chains?
-general poor coil connections or performance?
Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated! I really would like to know if scan tool VCT info means mechanical timing is good. The writing and circling in the pictures is from the tech.
Last edited by ClassicNewUser1; Oct 31, 2020 at 10:54 AM.
Reason: Explain writing in pics, add idle info
I have a feeling it's a stretched timing chain from your info.
Out of curiosity, why didn't you replace the chain when you had it apart?
I did buy some, but felt they didn't seem to show much wear or stretch. I laid them next to each other, and measured links over a span of 10 inches and probably got less 1/16th of an inch difference. Maybe under tension it's a lot more stretch. Guides were still really smooth, so maybe not much slapping going on. If things looked more trashed in there I would have thrown guides, chains, and cog. I suppose I was trying to keep a budget and had already spent too much on plugs, lifters, and rockers. I know there's kind of "while your in there" thing, that happens with these motors. Figured at least some people must be going twice my mileage without opening the motor at all. The peace of mind of having replaced them would be nice right now.
Since COVID, I've helped with a few engine rebuilds. Both big and small engine.
One was on a 2008 F150 5.4l (IIRC ~160k/mi) and it needed phasers, upgraded oil pump, the whole nine yards... They were getting all the right codes and noises. One thing I suggested was a new chain. Again, figuring since it was apart and it wasn't that much, it was going in. Years of experience working on not only timing chains, but chains in general (anything that has a chain pretty much), they do stretch. No issues after, and the friend is happy we got it back together first shot.
Should've done some Googling earlier for you, but it's never too late, eh?:
Since COVID, I've helped with a few engine rebuilds. Both big and small engine.
One was on a 2008 F150 5.4l (IIRC ~160k/mi) and it needed phasers, upgraded oil pump, the whole nine yards... They were getting all the right codes and noises. One thing I suggested was a new chain. Again, figuring since it was apart and it wasn't that much, it was going in. Years of experience working on not only timing chains, but chains in general (anything that has a chain pretty much), they do stretch. No issues after, and the friend is happy we got it back together first shot.
Should've done some Googling earlier for you, but it's never too late, eh?:
Some good reads there. Seems to be there consensus to just replace everything, and ask questions later. Probably should have just bit the bullet and done it all.
Any thoughts on the VCT data?
Would a stretched chain, put in that much slack that I could lift up several loose links? That is the side with the old phaser. Could the phaser be rotating clock-wise around on its own with the engine off as I crank the engine? The cam's tension from the valve spring pressure is over coming the phasers coiled spring. Leaving one side tight and the other loose. The blades on that phaser line up with the L, but I guess there's lots of other things that could be wrong with the phaser.
Last edited by ClassicNewUser1; Oct 31, 2020 at 06:06 PM.
Reason: Clarity
I essentially only watched these videos. Excellent guides. Probably the only reason I got it running again.
I think getting that valve cover off and seeing what happened in there with all that new stuff is next for sure. I'll get that off tonight and seem what I can figure out.
Got the right valve cover off. Not a lot of news I can see. All the components seem to be intact and functioning properly. No cracked lifter cups I can see. I'm running it through trying to see any weird operation, cracked spring... (ideas?). 18mm spacing from cam phaser to cam cap.
The chain does seem tighter on this side and only gets a little bit slack when rotating the crank. Assuming I replaced the chains the way they came off, the left side had the blown tensioner seal, so likely had a more worn chain. The right side had the low oil pressure and/or bad phaser, so could have a stretched chain too.
Of course my compression tester didn't have the right adapter.
the tensioner extension was all over the place as I rotated crank. The left tensioner had a extension range of about 4.5mm. The 11 o'clock position was the most slack in the chain. The right was about 1.5 mm range. It was the most slack at 6 o'clock, but wasn't nearly as loose as the left.
pulled tensioners. How hard should be to compress them? The right was hard until I got the oil out of it, and is still pretty firm to compress all the way. The left was super easy right away. I know there oil pressure operated, but should the spring strength be stronger? Weird how right has oil hole at the tip and left doesn't.
Last edited by ClassicNewUser1; Nov 2, 2020 at 02:47 PM.
Reason: Oil hole location
I put new chains in, old ones did seem stretched. Got back together. Idle is much rougher now, but still could be lots of things not timing related. Still quite a bit of what I assume to be valve train noise. Checked all rockers and lifters and the looked good. All the valve components were present, and seem to be acting properly as I turned it over. Cam cap surface were not any worse than before (right had some light scoring before), opened up vct housings and they looked clean.
Finally got a 5.4 compression adapter, so I'll see what comes up. Probably pull the oil pan too. I changed the oil after second timing job and oil looks bad. Had a greenish metallic look to it, and very small amount of heavier copper flakes leftover at the bottom of the drain pan. *sigh* bad rod or crank bearings? Maybe I'll find a very clogged oil pickup,and I'm just get bad oil pressure all over.
Compression check pretty even. Pulled oil pan. Pretty clogged up oil pickup. Lots of weird spongy material, a sort of micro steel wool, a coil wire connector clip, and chain guide material. Last cylinders rods have quit a bit of end play, definitely noticeably rod knock. Fresh oil change #3.
Lifters are much quiter now, hot idle is way better, but the rod knock seems more obvious. (Not sure if this something you can remedy with fresh rod bearings, or just wait till full on rebuild of bottom end.) Maybe the knock was always there, and I never noticed it over the timing chain, and valve train issues. Still feel a slight roughness in acceleration, but not bad enough feeling to me to jump into it. Oil pickup strainer debris
Last edited by ClassicNewUser1; Nov 8, 2020 at 01:30 AM.
Reason: Better description of debris, and current running state
It's been awhile now and I've had a chance to think and test a little more. The hot idle is probably just as rough as before. The knock is probably more likely a loose cat on the inside the left chamber, or maybe fuel exploding on the cat. Definite sound in the left cat that is not on the right side. Knocking (fairly quite really) doesn't continue through the rpm range. Some hesitation in accleration off the line some times. Fuel economy is pretty bad around 10 mpg, I was getting 14 or 15 before timing chain replacement. Still no CEL.
Some things I've checked:
I've searched pretty hard for vacuum leaks. Got a good video with the phone of the vacuum line on the back of the left side of the motor. Looks intact and in OK shape.
Pulled injector connectors and idle seems worse with each still.
Replaced broken coil connectors on left side.
Checked coil packs with OTC spark plug tester. Seem to be a strong spark on all.
Compression test good as noted before. One cylinder was about 8% off, added oil and pressure went way up, so probably not a bent valve there.
MAF is clean
Put a little side pressure on injectors to see if I could get a vacuum leak out of them. No obvious change noted.
Crank thrust plate seems tight. The crank pulley won't move at all. I would say the pulley does seem to stick out slightly farther than FTM video suggests is normal. When I say slightly I mean like 2 or 3 mm.
When I pulled the oil pan the last 2 cylinders rods had a lot play between them, but not any vertical play in rod bearing. Journal worn, rods worn, factory defect of to wide a journal? Not sure new rod bearings would change this condition.
Thoughts? Tests? Is this all just the end play on the last 2 cylinder rods?
Last edited by ClassicNewUser1; Nov 22, 2020 at 06:32 PM.
Reason: Note on rod end play
