bolingpat
#1
09-18-2016, 01:10 PM
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bolingpat
new timing chains complete at 73000 miles. new gears new ft cover everything change for a total price of 3200. dollars. Have 120190 miles and rt ft upper guide broken and no oil pressure. same guide that broke the ft cover last time. Is this an inherited problem with the 5.4 engine ? do I use Ford parts or After market?
#2
09-19-2016, 03:06 PM
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#3
09-20-2016, 01:45 AM
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no oil pressure at an Idle. Engine rattles and rev up engine and oil pressure resumed.Drive it and come to idle and oil pressure at 0 again. Does not hold the pressure . when you rev up the engine
you can get pressure but put it into gear and your at 0. All repairs made at ford on the 73,0000 repair. Have torn down and the rt upper guide has broken and need to be replaced. Part of it in the pan and the rest in cover laying against the crank gear. QUESTION IS What makes the rt upper chain guide brake and in as little as 47000 miles. that less that I got on the first go round with this 5.4 timing chains. Oil is changed every 6000 mile and use motor craft filter. Does Ford Have a problem with this guide and can I buy After market parts?
you can get pressure but put it into gear and your at 0. All repairs made at ford on the 73,0000 repair. Have torn down and the rt upper guide has broken and need to be replaced. Part of it in the pan and the rest in cover laying against the crank gear. QUESTION IS What makes the rt upper chain guide brake and in as little as 47000 miles. that less that I got on the first go round with this 5.4 timing chains. Oil is changed every 6000 mile and use motor craft filter. Does Ford Have a problem with this guide and can I buy After market parts?
#4
09-20-2016, 09:45 AM
Senior Member
I'm no expert, just an analytical old wrench with life experience of doing all my own maintenance all the way from hot rodding high school days in the early '60s. So based on that (& experience of keeping my 5.4 going 220k miles), here's my thoughts.
First, I am very sorry for your much less than satisfactory experience with your truck.
In my opinion, the Zero oil pressure at idle (whether determined by aftermarket gauge or that fraudulent two position analogue instrument panel gauge) is the PRIMARY problem leading to all your others. Unfortunately, the instrument panel gauge is nothing but an idiot light, designed to fool everyone, and goes to zero when the pressure switch opens at or around 5-7 lbs. I believe that is what's happening because if it were actually zero, you would almost certainly be reporting a knock.
The source of that much sag in low rpm oil pressure is the problem, whether originating from main bearings, cam bearings, valve lifters, chain tensioners, or possibly clogged oil pickup screen causing your oil pump to cavitate and whip up air bubbles in the oil galleys. The latter is a likely result from broken chain guide junk.
Main / Rod bearings do not seem to be a problem in these modular engines. The plastic Chain tensioners DO seem to be a weak spot. But whatever the source, a moderate sag in oil pressure to the chain tensioners results in inadequate chain tension and allows the chain to slapp the plastic chain guide to death. And the chain hitting the ft cover produces your rattle. (I believe THAT happens due to the irregular torque required for the camshaft to compress two valves on each intake and only ONE on each exhaust. But the result is what's important.) (I believe this commonly happens on the right side because - Bank 1 valve train / tensioner oil source is from the main oil galley at the rear of the block, and the left bank is sourced from the front of the block benefiting from a little higher pressure).
The oil pump volume, being driven directly by the Crankshaft is absolutely proportional to RPM up to the bypass relief spring setting. If it is not enough to keep both chains tensioned - it is my opinion an AFTER MARKET high volume pump is a must, along with the older style 5.4 cast iron (ratchet style) chain tensioners.
As for Phasers, I would personally stay with OEM. Other than that, your option.
An aftermarket pressure gauge indicated 13-15 lbs at idle, so I opted for a Melling 10340 and cast iron guides and some special tensioner arms. Now - hot idle pressure on a 100 degree South Texas day, in drive with A/C on will sit around 24-26. At 220,000 miles, the bearings must all be fine. Just don't "Screw Up" like I did in these photos of my job at this link:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...ml#post5184058
Sorry for the long post. Hard to do your question justice in a shorter way. I will PM you a PDF copy of the factory service for your truck. Hope that helps.
First, I am very sorry for your much less than satisfactory experience with your truck.
In my opinion, the Zero oil pressure at idle (whether determined by aftermarket gauge or that fraudulent two position analogue instrument panel gauge) is the PRIMARY problem leading to all your others. Unfortunately, the instrument panel gauge is nothing but an idiot light, designed to fool everyone, and goes to zero when the pressure switch opens at or around 5-7 lbs. I believe that is what's happening because if it were actually zero, you would almost certainly be reporting a knock.
The source of that much sag in low rpm oil pressure is the problem, whether originating from main bearings, cam bearings, valve lifters, chain tensioners, or possibly clogged oil pickup screen causing your oil pump to cavitate and whip up air bubbles in the oil galleys. The latter is a likely result from broken chain guide junk.
Main / Rod bearings do not seem to be a problem in these modular engines. The plastic Chain tensioners DO seem to be a weak spot. But whatever the source, a moderate sag in oil pressure to the chain tensioners results in inadequate chain tension and allows the chain to slapp the plastic chain guide to death. And the chain hitting the ft cover produces your rattle. (I believe THAT happens due to the irregular torque required for the camshaft to compress two valves on each intake and only ONE on each exhaust. But the result is what's important.) (I believe this commonly happens on the right side because - Bank 1 valve train / tensioner oil source is from the main oil galley at the rear of the block, and the left bank is sourced from the front of the block benefiting from a little higher pressure).
The oil pump volume, being driven directly by the Crankshaft is absolutely proportional to RPM up to the bypass relief spring setting. If it is not enough to keep both chains tensioned - it is my opinion an AFTER MARKET high volume pump is a must, along with the older style 5.4 cast iron (ratchet style) chain tensioners.
As for Phasers, I would personally stay with OEM. Other than that, your option.
An aftermarket pressure gauge indicated 13-15 lbs at idle, so I opted for a Melling 10340 and cast iron guides and some special tensioner arms. Now - hot idle pressure on a 100 degree South Texas day, in drive with A/C on will sit around 24-26. At 220,000 miles, the bearings must all be fine. Just don't "Screw Up" like I did in these photos of my job at this link:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...ml#post5184058
Sorry for the long post. Hard to do your question justice in a shorter way. I will PM you a PDF copy of the factory service for your truck. Hope that helps.