Plug...Injector...Both
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Plug...Injector...Both
2007 5.4 Flex Fuel, 71,000 miles.
2 years ago had two coils replaced and all plugs replaced by dealer knowing that the spark plug issue was there. They had no issues apparently removing/replacing the plugs.
In the last 6 mos or so I've had a gas smell while sitting at a red light or in a parking place. Tried to track down any obvious leak but could not find one. No codes thrown at all.
About 3 mos ago the MPG fell off the cliff.
10 days ago my wife calls me and says its idling with a low engine RPM wobble and the CEL is on. She returns home.
I plug in my OBD scanner with Torque App. I get a P0304 and P0316. Cylinder misfire on #4. I go an remove it. The bottom 1/5 of the outside of the rubber boot is covered in a grayish material. The spring coil looked dry with a faint smell of gas. I replaced the coil and the engine was good for all of 2 hours. No low end wobble at 600 RPM, nothing. Then it came back. Then one morning it drove fine. We drove it this past week and then it got worse. Plugged in the scanner and had P0304 and P0308. I replaced #8 and the boot was good. Dry, no moisture. P0308 was cleared and has not come back.
I pulled #4 coil and it was covered in carbon build up and the spring coil has black bits on it with gas. It looks like it has been in there for years and its 10 days old.
I'm wondering if the injector is stuck open or the plug is bad and carbon fouled or the plug has loosened. I stuck a straw down the sidewall of the plug well and it came back filled with about 1/8" of carbon like sludge. I guess it could have gotten water in it from heavy rains we've had. No water was apparent under the hood though.
The coils replaced in the last 10 days were not the ones replaced 2 years ago.
Thoughts please.
I searched but with this issue I could read for hours in circles.
2 years ago had two coils replaced and all plugs replaced by dealer knowing that the spark plug issue was there. They had no issues apparently removing/replacing the plugs.
In the last 6 mos or so I've had a gas smell while sitting at a red light or in a parking place. Tried to track down any obvious leak but could not find one. No codes thrown at all.
About 3 mos ago the MPG fell off the cliff.
10 days ago my wife calls me and says its idling with a low engine RPM wobble and the CEL is on. She returns home.
I plug in my OBD scanner with Torque App. I get a P0304 and P0316. Cylinder misfire on #4. I go an remove it. The bottom 1/5 of the outside of the rubber boot is covered in a grayish material. The spring coil looked dry with a faint smell of gas. I replaced the coil and the engine was good for all of 2 hours. No low end wobble at 600 RPM, nothing. Then it came back. Then one morning it drove fine. We drove it this past week and then it got worse. Plugged in the scanner and had P0304 and P0308. I replaced #8 and the boot was good. Dry, no moisture. P0308 was cleared and has not come back.
I pulled #4 coil and it was covered in carbon build up and the spring coil has black bits on it with gas. It looks like it has been in there for years and its 10 days old.
I'm wondering if the injector is stuck open or the plug is bad and carbon fouled or the plug has loosened. I stuck a straw down the sidewall of the plug well and it came back filled with about 1/8" of carbon like sludge. I guess it could have gotten water in it from heavy rains we've had. No water was apparent under the hood though.
The coils replaced in the last 10 days were not the ones replaced 2 years ago.
Thoughts please.
I searched but with this issue I could read for hours in circles.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
2007 5.4 Flex Fuel, 71,000 miles.
2 years ago had two coils replaced and all plugs replaced by dealer knowing that the spark plug issue was there. They had no issues apparently removing/replacing the plugs.
In the last 6 mos or so I've had a gas smell while sitting at a red light or in a parking place. Tried to track down any obvious leak but could not find one. No codes thrown at all.
About 3 mos ago the MPG fell off the cliff.
10 days ago my wife calls me and says its idling with a low engine RPM wobble and the CEL is on. She returns home.
I plug in my OBD scanner with Torque App. I get a P0304 and P0316. Cylinder misfire on #4. I go an remove it. The bottom 1/5 of the outside of the rubber boot is covered in a grayish material. The spring coil looked dry with a faint smell of gas. I replaced the coil and the engine was good for all of 2 hours. No low end wobble at 600 RPM, nothing. Then it came back. Then one morning it drove fine. We drove it this past week and then it got worse. Plugged in the scanner and had P0304 and P0308. I replaced #8 and the boot was good. Dry, no moisture. P0308 was cleared and has not come back.
I pulled #4 coil and it was covered in carbon build up and the spring coil has black bits on it with gas. It looks like it has been in there for years and its 10 days old.
I'm wondering if the injector is stuck open or the plug is bad and carbon fouled or the plug has loosened. I stuck a straw down the sidewall of the plug well and it came back filled with about 1/8" of carbon like sludge. I guess it could have gotten water in it from heavy rains we've had. No water was apparent under the hood though.
The coils replaced in the last 10 days were not the ones replaced 2 years ago.
Thoughts please.
I searched but with this issue I could read for hours in circles.
2 years ago had two coils replaced and all plugs replaced by dealer knowing that the spark plug issue was there. They had no issues apparently removing/replacing the plugs.
In the last 6 mos or so I've had a gas smell while sitting at a red light or in a parking place. Tried to track down any obvious leak but could not find one. No codes thrown at all.
About 3 mos ago the MPG fell off the cliff.
10 days ago my wife calls me and says its idling with a low engine RPM wobble and the CEL is on. She returns home.
I plug in my OBD scanner with Torque App. I get a P0304 and P0316. Cylinder misfire on #4. I go an remove it. The bottom 1/5 of the outside of the rubber boot is covered in a grayish material. The spring coil looked dry with a faint smell of gas. I replaced the coil and the engine was good for all of 2 hours. No low end wobble at 600 RPM, nothing. Then it came back. Then one morning it drove fine. We drove it this past week and then it got worse. Plugged in the scanner and had P0304 and P0308. I replaced #8 and the boot was good. Dry, no moisture. P0308 was cleared and has not come back.
I pulled #4 coil and it was covered in carbon build up and the spring coil has black bits on it with gas. It looks like it has been in there for years and its 10 days old.
I'm wondering if the injector is stuck open or the plug is bad and carbon fouled or the plug has loosened. I stuck a straw down the sidewall of the plug well and it came back filled with about 1/8" of carbon like sludge. I guess it could have gotten water in it from heavy rains we've had. No water was apparent under the hood though.
The coils replaced in the last 10 days were not the ones replaced 2 years ago.
Thoughts please.
I searched but with this issue I could read for hours in circles.
Did you check the plug for proper torque? Fist order of business is to get ALL of that crap outta there - small rubber hose on a shopvac, compressed air, whatever, before even thinking of removed that plug for inspection. You do NOT want that crud falling into the cylinder.
Post back the part # on the plug and/or a pic.
What coils did you use? Recommend only Motorcraft or Visteon. The rest are just asking for issues like this.
You must use dielectric grease in the boots for sealing and misfire prevention. New boots are also recommended for the best seal.
Loose plugs can emit gas smell. Doubt it's a stuck injector - 2007's are not known for this. I f the plug comes out 'wet', it's likely due to the misfires. You can check for injector leakage by removing the rail with injectors attached, laying it on a paper towel, and turning the key to 'on' to run the fuel pump. If any drip, you'll know.
good luck
MGD
Last edited by MGDfan; Mar 3, 2014 at 04:26 PM.
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The plugs used were installed at the stealership as were the two coils 2 years ago. I assume they used motorcraft.
The latest coils were BWD from Advance. I went there on a Sunday and then a following Sunday to find the parts to attempt the repair. My intent was to only do the one and then buy better replacements (say 3-4) to have on hand.
And yes...I did grease both of them.
This thing has just snowballed in the last 3 days.
Checking plug torque is on the list. It was getting dark and starting to rain yesterday and since its Cylinder #4 it takes some time to get in there.
The only problem I see is just that...looking into cylinder #4 is near impossible. Not sure how I can verify that I've gotten it all out.
The latest coils were BWD from Advance. I went there on a Sunday and then a following Sunday to find the parts to attempt the repair. My intent was to only do the one and then buy better replacements (say 3-4) to have on hand.
And yes...I did grease both of them.
This thing has just snowballed in the last 3 days.
Checking plug torque is on the list. It was getting dark and starting to rain yesterday and since its Cylinder #4 it takes some time to get in there.
The only problem I see is just that...looking into cylinder #4 is near impossible. Not sure how I can verify that I've gotten it all out.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
The plugs used were installed at the stealership as were the two coils 2 years ago. I assume they used motorcraft.
The latest coils were BWD from Advance. I went there on a Sunday and then a following Sunday to find the parts to attempt the repair. My intent was to only do the one and then buy better replacements (say 3-4) to have on hand.
And yes...I did grease both of them.
This thing has just snowballed in the last 3 days.
Checking plug torque is on the list. It was getting dark and starting to rain yesterday and since its Cylinder #4 it takes some time to get in there.
The only problem I see is just that...looking into cylinder #4 is near impossible. Not sure how I can verify that I've gotten it all out.
The latest coils were BWD from Advance. I went there on a Sunday and then a following Sunday to find the parts to attempt the repair. My intent was to only do the one and then buy better replacements (say 3-4) to have on hand.
And yes...I did grease both of them.
This thing has just snowballed in the last 3 days.
Checking plug torque is on the list. It was getting dark and starting to rain yesterday and since its Cylinder #4 it takes some time to get in there.
The only problem I see is just that...looking into cylinder #4 is near impossible. Not sure how I can verify that I've gotten it all out.
Try some carb cleaner , then vacuum then high pressure air? Perhaps more than once?
Plug should be pulled after a quick 'looseness' check regardless for inspection.
Current plug spec is SP-515.
good luck
MGD
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Got into this today....the spark plug is not tight. Thinking I should crank it down a turn or two and then clean it? I would assume that I need to crank it into the threads some so the cleaner does not drip down?
Or just crank it down and move forward? It is gummed.
Thoughts?
Or just crank it down and move forward? It is gummed.
Thoughts?
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Got into this today....the spark plug is not tight. Thinking I should crank it down a turn or two and then clean it? I would assume that I need to crank it into the threads some so the cleaner does not drip down?
Or just crank it down and move forward? It is gummed.
Thoughts?
Or just crank it down and move forward? It is gummed.
Thoughts?
It's a tapered seat - the risk here is getting crap between the machined surfaces, possibly affecting the seal.
If you just spray down there now, yes that will end up in the cylinder (and eventually the crankcase). Plus wash some effluvia into there as well.
I'd try to clean out all you possibly can with a solvent-soaked rag and a long thin implement, then a shopvac. Keep at it until the rag comes up clean as possible.
Yer going to have to remove the plug to clean it and the seat. I'd expect you'll end up getting a bit of spooge into the cylinder despite what you do. Check all the plugs for seating as a precautionary measure.
Good luck
MGD
Do yourself a favor and pull the plugs.. look at them and verify those 2 are actually good.
I had all same issues. Had my plugs changed about 25k ago. Moved the coils when I got a misfire CEL... got same 2 CEL's for cylinder 4 and 8 over and over. When I checked both plugs were loose. After pulling them the entire tip of cylinder #4 plug was gone, burned away.. #8 looked ok, but I replaced it anyway. Everything has been good since I replaced those 2 plugs and tightened them.
I had all same issues. Had my plugs changed about 25k ago. Moved the coils when I got a misfire CEL... got same 2 CEL's for cylinder 4 and 8 over and over. When I checked both plugs were loose. After pulling them the entire tip of cylinder #4 plug was gone, burned away.. #8 looked ok, but I replaced it anyway. Everything has been good since I replaced those 2 plugs and tightened them.
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Update.....
The plug was loose. The interesting part was that the plug threads were not gummed up. The shoulder above the thread had buildup. The plug tip looked odd compared to the new one.
I used the carb soaked rag to lightly loosening the debris around it and then the flat blade end of a screwdriver to get as much out. Blew the well out with compressed air with plug still in.
I used the socket end to gauge the "cleanliness" of the work since you cannot see into cylinder #4.
I put anti-seize on the only part the TSB specifies. Hand tightened it down and then torque wrenched it to 25lbs.
Truck drives like it should with no issues. Hope this is the end.
On a lighter note (now)....the truck started up just fine and I took it for a test drive. During the drive the AC unit and radio just died briefly put came back on. I got home, turned it off and then turned the key back on...it was dead. D-E-A-D. No lights...nothing. I was sick to my stomach with certainty I had done something catastrophic somehow.
Decided to disconnect battery, popped hood, went to battery and touched the negative terminal it was barely making contact and I lifted the connector off the terminal with my hand. Tightened it back up and heard the CD player and other items turn on.
I've no idea how it started the first time. But it did. Its good now.
Thanks for your help.
Now to turn my efforts to the AC not working (does not hold freon) and the IWE tubing. The IWE wants to partially allow the 4WD to engage.
If you know anything about the above. Chime in.
The plug was loose. The interesting part was that the plug threads were not gummed up. The shoulder above the thread had buildup. The plug tip looked odd compared to the new one.
I used the carb soaked rag to lightly loosening the debris around it and then the flat blade end of a screwdriver to get as much out. Blew the well out with compressed air with plug still in.
I used the socket end to gauge the "cleanliness" of the work since you cannot see into cylinder #4.
I put anti-seize on the only part the TSB specifies. Hand tightened it down and then torque wrenched it to 25lbs.
Truck drives like it should with no issues. Hope this is the end.
On a lighter note (now)....the truck started up just fine and I took it for a test drive. During the drive the AC unit and radio just died briefly put came back on. I got home, turned it off and then turned the key back on...it was dead. D-E-A-D. No lights...nothing. I was sick to my stomach with certainty I had done something catastrophic somehow.
Decided to disconnect battery, popped hood, went to battery and touched the negative terminal it was barely making contact and I lifted the connector off the terminal with my hand. Tightened it back up and heard the CD player and other items turn on.
I've no idea how it started the first time. But it did. Its good now.
Thanks for your help.
Now to turn my efforts to the AC not working (does not hold freon) and the IWE tubing. The IWE wants to partially allow the 4WD to engage.
If you know anything about the above. Chime in.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Update.....
The plug was loose. The interesting part was that the plug threads were not gummed up. The shoulder above the thread had buildup. The plug tip looked odd compared to the new one.
I used the carb soaked rag to lightly loosening the debris around it and then the flat blade end of a screwdriver to get as much out. Blew the well out with compressed air with plug still in.
I used the socket end to gauge the "cleanliness" of the work since you cannot see into cylinder #4.
I put anti-seize on the only part the TSB specifies. Hand tightened it down and then torque wrenched it to 25lbs.
Truck drives like it should with no issues. Hope this is the end.
On a lighter note (now)....the truck started up just fine and I took it for a test drive. During the drive the AC unit and radio just died briefly put came back on. I got home, turned it off and then turned the key back on...it was dead. D-E-A-D. No lights...nothing. I was sick to my stomach with certainty I had done something catastrophic somehow.
Decided to disconnect battery, popped hood, went to battery and touched the negative terminal it was barely making contact and I lifted the connector off the terminal with my hand. Tightened it back up and heard the CD player and other items turn on.
I've no idea how it started the first time. But it did. Its good now.
Thanks for your help.
Now to turn my efforts to the AC not working (does not hold freon) and the IWE tubing. The IWE wants to partially allow the 4WD to engage.
If you know anything about the above. Chime in.
The plug was loose. The interesting part was that the plug threads were not gummed up. The shoulder above the thread had buildup. The plug tip looked odd compared to the new one.
I used the carb soaked rag to lightly loosening the debris around it and then the flat blade end of a screwdriver to get as much out. Blew the well out with compressed air with plug still in.
I used the socket end to gauge the "cleanliness" of the work since you cannot see into cylinder #4.
I put anti-seize on the only part the TSB specifies. Hand tightened it down and then torque wrenched it to 25lbs.
Truck drives like it should with no issues. Hope this is the end.
On a lighter note (now)....the truck started up just fine and I took it for a test drive. During the drive the AC unit and radio just died briefly put came back on. I got home, turned it off and then turned the key back on...it was dead. D-E-A-D. No lights...nothing. I was sick to my stomach with certainty I had done something catastrophic somehow.
Decided to disconnect battery, popped hood, went to battery and touched the negative terminal it was barely making contact and I lifted the connector off the terminal with my hand. Tightened it back up and heard the CD player and other items turn on.
I've no idea how it started the first time. But it did. Its good now.
Thanks for your help.
Now to turn my efforts to the AC not working (does not hold freon) and the IWE tubing. The IWE wants to partially allow the 4WD to engage.
If you know anything about the above. Chime in.
Good job!
Some IWE info:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/ot...onnectors.html
https://www.f150online.com/forums/ar...then-some.html
https://www.f150online.com/forums/ar...-pictures.html
https://www.f150online.com/forums/ar...replacing.html
good luck!
MGD
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Re: the IWE...i know its the tubing between solenoid and the wheel end.
I confirmed at the hub that the IWE holds vacuum. The tubing lets it leak down or a check valve does.
Right now I have the solenoid unplugged and bypassed with two golf tees and some zip ties.
solenoid is new.
I confirmed at the hub that the IWE holds vacuum. The tubing lets it leak down or a check valve does.
Right now I have the solenoid unplugged and bypassed with two golf tees and some zip ties.
solenoid is new.
Last edited by jefftb; Mar 8, 2014 at 05:55 PM.