Octane Challenge!
Senior Member
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
From: Denver,Co
In my spare time, I fight with the service rep at the dealer on this subject. His latest punch was that Ford has issued a TSB on this subject basically saying don't use anything greater than 87. Anyone seen this TSB ?
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99 F150 5.4 4x4 ORP 3.73 styleside deep wedgewood blue ..no mods (yet)
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99 F150 5.4 4x4 ORP 3.73 styleside deep wedgewood blue ..no mods (yet)
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
Likes: 11
From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
HotV6,
Just to set the record straight...
Shop manual page 303-14-33 shows the removal procedure for the 4.6L and 5.4l Knock Sensor and page 303-14-35 shows the 4.2l procedure.
EVTM (Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) page 23-5 Shows the wireing for a Knock Sensor for a 4.2L, page 24-5 is for the 4.6L. and page 25-5 is the 5.4L.
Kindest regards
Jean Marc Chartier
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On Order: 00 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd
using: Wife'S 99 Explorer till arrival
Just to set the record straight...
Shop manual page 303-14-33 shows the removal procedure for the 4.6L and 5.4l Knock Sensor and page 303-14-35 shows the 4.2l procedure.
EVTM (Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) page 23-5 Shows the wireing for a Knock Sensor for a 4.2L, page 24-5 is for the 4.6L. and page 25-5 is the 5.4L.
Kindest regards
Jean Marc Chartier
------------------
On Order: 00 F-150 XLT SC Flairside 4x4 4.6 w/5spd
using: Wife'S 99 Explorer till arrival
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
The article in USA Today in no way negates any of the benefits of a good performance chip. It is *not* like having "a Superchip built in", nor is it even close.
The fact that you can run premium gas and get about 2% more horsepower (about 5-7 horsepower in the F-150) in newer Fords is nothing new for Ford, ladies and gentlemen! It's been that way for years, and it shows up generally when the vehicle is under a heavy load. Under that condition, the Ford ECU has been allowing about 2% more horsepower, which is right in line with the 5-7 more horsepower claimed for the new Fords just by using premium gas. And, they aren't the only ones! GM has been doing this for years now too, first with the LT1, then the LT4, and now the LS1 and it's truck variants. Nothing new. And for those who have read the recent C&D article, remember that the Hypertech PPIII unit knocked a full second off the 0-60 times of the LS1-engined 1999 Chevy truck, which, by the way, uses a more sophisticated and more aggressive knock sensor system than the newest Fords, including the 2000 models. GM has typically been ahead of Ford in this area for some years now, ironically, after being far behind Ford during most of the 80's. It's interesting how things turn out over time.
Ask any owner of a 1999 Mustang Cobra, who was promised 320 horsepower from the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine for 1999 how much power they are *really* getting, and what they think of Ford's power claims. Their performance is basically the same as the much cheaper 1999 Mustang GT, which has been upped to 260 hp for 1999, and in good weather has no problem running very low 14's. Ford is taking a lot of heat right now with 1999 Cobra owners because of this, and is apparently in the process of recalling many of these vehicles. To Ford's credit, after overstating the actual power output of the 1999 Cobra (which we can only guess was in their effort to compete on paper with GM'S LS1 F-bodied cars), they have promised to retrofit new intake, exhaust, and other components, to get the 1999 DOHC Cobra up to it's rating of 320 hp SAE Net. I have no doubt that they will do exactly that. The people that work in SVT are a very proud bunch indeed, and understandably and rightfully so! We all love the vehicles they build, and we come here to learn even more about them.
Even those vehicles that come from Ford (and other automakers as well)tuned specifically to run on premium gasoline still see substantial horsepower gains from tuning specifically for the use of premium gasoline, anywhere from 8% to 10% more peak horsepower. And, it involves a lot more than just timing changes. Timing, fuel curves, rev limits, top speed limiters, automatic transmission shift characteristics, transitional changes etc., are just some of the things the Superchip alters for best driveability and performance, so there's a lot more than just timing changes going on inside a Superchip.
I spoke with Mike Short, who runs Superchips USA, and his comments basically echoed my own thoughts, and he added a few things. First, the vast majority of Fords (and it's not just Ford) come from the factory with a fuel mixture that is too rich for best power at WOT, so power comes up by leaning them out just a bit. They can do this because of a little-known "loophole" in the emisions laws, which is, during WOT (wide-open throttle) operation, there are no emissions standards that have to be met! They have found this on a number of Fords and GM's, and other vehicles as well, where they (some GM vehicles) are sometimes even too rich on cruise, a bit of a surprise to some, considering the rather stiff C.A.F.E.-mandated requirements the automakers have to meet each year for fuel mileage. That says something about their programming proficiency.
Don't get me wrong, nobody is saying that Ford does a poor job of programming their powertrains; for the most part, it is simply a matter of the automaker having different *priorities* than a performance enthusiast does. Ford, like other automakers, has a lot of great people working for them who are extremely proud of the vehicles they design and build for us to buy. If they weren't, they wouldn't be selling in the numbers they do!
Mike Short of Superchips went on to say that he compliments the programming job that SVT did on the Mustang Cobra from 1996 & up. That same engine (though configured slightly differently) when installed in the Lincoln Mark 8 picks up a very nice gain, 26-28 horsepower, but as installed in the Cobra, it gains less, about 12-15 horsepower, and it is due to considerably more aggressive programming from the factory. Good job, Ford!
And before *anyone*, including Ford, gets the idea that it's our mission in life to say not-nice things about Ford, I want to point out that nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a "Ford man" thru and thru, with family working for Ford since shortly after the first World War. For some years now, FoMoCo products are all we buy and drive, and that includes me too! Ford is about as near and dear to our hearts as anything could *ever* be.
Another point is that Ford is not alone in doing things like this, there isn't an automaker that I know of that is perfect. If you look closely enough, you can find problems anywhere at any automaker. And, at most manufactureres of any kind, for that matter!
Ford has to build these trucks to be able to operate in the widest possible range of environments, since they have to support them no matter whether they are operated in the wilds of Mexico, where you can only get gas of about 85 octane, or the streets of Dearborn, Michigan. And, they do a fine job, as illustrated by the fact that the F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the world, and has been for years now. They are programming the powertrain for the best *compromise* they can make, given the extremely wide range of environments and fuels available that these vehicles will be subjected to over their lifetime. Those are their main priorities, and one of them is maximum gasoline compatibility across this entire continent. A performance programmer has different priorities, and those are, in general, to provide maximum possible reliable power, without exceeding design specs, and best overall driveability using high-quality premium gasoline that is readily available here in America. So it's a matter of different priorities, and really, nothing more. Ford is not short-chaging anyone by programming their vehicles that way, what they are doing is actually a good thing for many, many F-150 owners. If you look at where all these US-spec vehicles have to be able to operate, Ford has done a *marvelous* job of equipping these vehicles to be able to operate on the widest possible range of octane levels.
Here in America, we are generally not limited to all the same constraints that a global automaker must consider. Here, we can generally count on being able to get a good quality premium gasoline just about anywhere, and that is exactly what a performance chip does, is program *specifically* for being used only with high-quality, high-octane gasoline.
An interesting side-note is that in Europe, where gasolines tend to be of considerably higher octane, vehicles programmed for their octane levels over there tend to make even more power, as it's common to be able to get 95-97 octane, and sometimes even higher, in places like England, Germany, etc., for instance. Superchips has their World Headquarters over in Bletchley, England, and programs made for "Euro-spec" vehicles cannot be used here in America, as we don't have enough octane available at the pump to prevent detonation with those more aggressive Euro-spec programs.
Just a bit of perspective, and our best to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
The fact that you can run premium gas and get about 2% more horsepower (about 5-7 horsepower in the F-150) in newer Fords is nothing new for Ford, ladies and gentlemen! It's been that way for years, and it shows up generally when the vehicle is under a heavy load. Under that condition, the Ford ECU has been allowing about 2% more horsepower, which is right in line with the 5-7 more horsepower claimed for the new Fords just by using premium gas. And, they aren't the only ones! GM has been doing this for years now too, first with the LT1, then the LT4, and now the LS1 and it's truck variants. Nothing new. And for those who have read the recent C&D article, remember that the Hypertech PPIII unit knocked a full second off the 0-60 times of the LS1-engined 1999 Chevy truck, which, by the way, uses a more sophisticated and more aggressive knock sensor system than the newest Fords, including the 2000 models. GM has typically been ahead of Ford in this area for some years now, ironically, after being far behind Ford during most of the 80's. It's interesting how things turn out over time.
Ask any owner of a 1999 Mustang Cobra, who was promised 320 horsepower from the 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine for 1999 how much power they are *really* getting, and what they think of Ford's power claims. Their performance is basically the same as the much cheaper 1999 Mustang GT, which has been upped to 260 hp for 1999, and in good weather has no problem running very low 14's. Ford is taking a lot of heat right now with 1999 Cobra owners because of this, and is apparently in the process of recalling many of these vehicles. To Ford's credit, after overstating the actual power output of the 1999 Cobra (which we can only guess was in their effort to compete on paper with GM'S LS1 F-bodied cars), they have promised to retrofit new intake, exhaust, and other components, to get the 1999 DOHC Cobra up to it's rating of 320 hp SAE Net. I have no doubt that they will do exactly that. The people that work in SVT are a very proud bunch indeed, and understandably and rightfully so! We all love the vehicles they build, and we come here to learn even more about them.
Even those vehicles that come from Ford (and other automakers as well)tuned specifically to run on premium gasoline still see substantial horsepower gains from tuning specifically for the use of premium gasoline, anywhere from 8% to 10% more peak horsepower. And, it involves a lot more than just timing changes. Timing, fuel curves, rev limits, top speed limiters, automatic transmission shift characteristics, transitional changes etc., are just some of the things the Superchip alters for best driveability and performance, so there's a lot more than just timing changes going on inside a Superchip.
I spoke with Mike Short, who runs Superchips USA, and his comments basically echoed my own thoughts, and he added a few things. First, the vast majority of Fords (and it's not just Ford) come from the factory with a fuel mixture that is too rich for best power at WOT, so power comes up by leaning them out just a bit. They can do this because of a little-known "loophole" in the emisions laws, which is, during WOT (wide-open throttle) operation, there are no emissions standards that have to be met! They have found this on a number of Fords and GM's, and other vehicles as well, where they (some GM vehicles) are sometimes even too rich on cruise, a bit of a surprise to some, considering the rather stiff C.A.F.E.-mandated requirements the automakers have to meet each year for fuel mileage. That says something about their programming proficiency.
Don't get me wrong, nobody is saying that Ford does a poor job of programming their powertrains; for the most part, it is simply a matter of the automaker having different *priorities* than a performance enthusiast does. Ford, like other automakers, has a lot of great people working for them who are extremely proud of the vehicles they design and build for us to buy. If they weren't, they wouldn't be selling in the numbers they do!
Mike Short of Superchips went on to say that he compliments the programming job that SVT did on the Mustang Cobra from 1996 & up. That same engine (though configured slightly differently) when installed in the Lincoln Mark 8 picks up a very nice gain, 26-28 horsepower, but as installed in the Cobra, it gains less, about 12-15 horsepower, and it is due to considerably more aggressive programming from the factory. Good job, Ford!
And before *anyone*, including Ford, gets the idea that it's our mission in life to say not-nice things about Ford, I want to point out that nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a "Ford man" thru and thru, with family working for Ford since shortly after the first World War. For some years now, FoMoCo products are all we buy and drive, and that includes me too! Ford is about as near and dear to our hearts as anything could *ever* be.
Another point is that Ford is not alone in doing things like this, there isn't an automaker that I know of that is perfect. If you look closely enough, you can find problems anywhere at any automaker. And, at most manufactureres of any kind, for that matter!
Ford has to build these trucks to be able to operate in the widest possible range of environments, since they have to support them no matter whether they are operated in the wilds of Mexico, where you can only get gas of about 85 octane, or the streets of Dearborn, Michigan. And, they do a fine job, as illustrated by the fact that the F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the world, and has been for years now. They are programming the powertrain for the best *compromise* they can make, given the extremely wide range of environments and fuels available that these vehicles will be subjected to over their lifetime. Those are their main priorities, and one of them is maximum gasoline compatibility across this entire continent. A performance programmer has different priorities, and those are, in general, to provide maximum possible reliable power, without exceeding design specs, and best overall driveability using high-quality premium gasoline that is readily available here in America. So it's a matter of different priorities, and really, nothing more. Ford is not short-chaging anyone by programming their vehicles that way, what they are doing is actually a good thing for many, many F-150 owners. If you look at where all these US-spec vehicles have to be able to operate, Ford has done a *marvelous* job of equipping these vehicles to be able to operate on the widest possible range of octane levels.
Here in America, we are generally not limited to all the same constraints that a global automaker must consider. Here, we can generally count on being able to get a good quality premium gasoline just about anywhere, and that is exactly what a performance chip does, is program *specifically* for being used only with high-quality, high-octane gasoline.
An interesting side-note is that in Europe, where gasolines tend to be of considerably higher octane, vehicles programmed for their octane levels over there tend to make even more power, as it's common to be able to get 95-97 octane, and sometimes even higher, in places like England, Germany, etc., for instance. Superchips has their World Headquarters over in Bletchley, England, and programs made for "Euro-spec" vehicles cannot be used here in America, as we don't have enough octane available at the pump to prevent detonation with those more aggressive Euro-spec programs.
Just a bit of perspective, and our best to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
Superchips give about 20 extra horsepower...but is that 20 more than whats published? If so then you can get that by use of premium (5 to 7) and a K&N (10 to 15). Were the dyno tests performed with premium before and after installing the chip? Was the computer reset each time?
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The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
I didn't see anywhere in this post whether the 4.2L can benefit from higher octanes. I've been using premium in my truck. It only has 1400 miles.
My question is:
1) Will the 4.2L benefit, either in terms of performance or engine care?
2) Is the added octane harmful or helpful?
Curious in Alabama . . .
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
My question is:
1) Will the 4.2L benefit, either in terms of performance or engine care?
2) Is the added octane harmful or helpful?
Curious in Alabama . . .
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
I didnt see the 4.2L mentioned in the report from USA Today, so I would assume not. I believe the engines benefitting from this are the newer overhead cam engines.
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The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 09-29-1999).]
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 09-29-1999).]
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
HotV6,
If you read my post youll see I dont have a superchip. My statement is simply that the superchip is said to give 20 hp. So, if you use premium (5 to 7 hp) and a K&N(10 to 15 hp) you get about 20hp. I do realize the chip does more than that, I just wanted to know if the chip is 20 hp more than stock hp or hp on premium fuel (a number Ford doesnt publish).
Now, as for my data on 87, 89, 93. Its written down on every gas receipt I have and if youre any good at math, you too can see that 15 mpg to 18 mpg would be what we call improvement.
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 09-29-1999).]
If you read my post youll see I dont have a superchip. My statement is simply that the superchip is said to give 20 hp. So, if you use premium (5 to 7 hp) and a K&N(10 to 15 hp) you get about 20hp. I do realize the chip does more than that, I just wanted to know if the chip is 20 hp more than stock hp or hp on premium fuel (a number Ford doesnt publish).
Now, as for my data on 87, 89, 93. Its written down on every gas receipt I have and if youre any good at math, you too can see that 15 mpg to 18 mpg would be what we call improvement.
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 09-29-1999).]
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Whle we highly recommend the K&N air filter, it is never going to add 10 or 15 horsepower to an F-150, sorry. More like 5 hp, up to as much as perhaps 7 hp. It's still a good bang-for-the-buck investment, if you only get 5 horsepower for the $35 or so it costs, that is worth the money.
And yes, of course the vehicles run on the dyno at Superchips are run both before and after on premium gas, what other way could they be done?!? There isn't any convenient method to draining a gas tank and entire fuel system to do a fuel changeover!
Our bests to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
And yes, of course the vehicles run on the dyno at Superchips are run both before and after on premium gas, what other way could they be done?!? There isn't any convenient method to draining a gas tank and entire fuel system to do a fuel changeover!
Our bests to all,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Westland, Mi
I think that someone really needs to check out what was being reported in USA Today. Like maybe check for the accuracy of the information. Let me leave you with a little bit of old hillbilly wisdom "It ain't what you don't know that makes you look like a fool: It's what you do know that ain't so".
Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Dearborn, MI USA
Ok, Triton46, you gained 20 HP with the Superchips, 5-7 with premium fuel and 10-15 for a K&N. That gives you a total gain of 35-42 HP....IN YOUR DREAMS!
Still waiting for the test method that you used that validates your original claim of your truck running progressively better on 87, 89 and 93 octane. SHOW ME THE DATA! I'll give you 5-7 HP for all of these changes put together (and I have a Superchips, K&N and run premium so I don't spark knock...hum, thought someone said I have a knock sensor on my truck?!!!)
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1998 STX 4.2L V6 Auto
Still waiting for the test method that you used that validates your original claim of your truck running progressively better on 87, 89 and 93 octane. SHOW ME THE DATA! I'll give you 5-7 HP for all of these changes put together (and I have a Superchips, K&N and run premium so I don't spark knock...hum, thought someone said I have a knock sensor on my truck?!!!)
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1998 STX 4.2L V6 Auto
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
From: Meridian, Id.
This topic is too good to drop off. I would like to here how this has worked out for you guys. Keep us posted with the results of changing octane. Thanks mlaugh
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97 F-150 4.6 auto, 4x2, 3.55 LS, trailer tow pkg, Air box modification with K&N, Dynomax Super Turbo exhaust.
Oh yeah, it's Oxford White with crome wheels, Legacy shell & custom grill, mlaugh-Meridian, Idaho.
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97 F-150 4.6 auto, 4x2, 3.55 LS, trailer tow pkg, Air box modification with K&N, Dynomax Super Turbo exhaust.
Oh yeah, it's Oxford White with crome wheels, Legacy shell & custom grill, mlaugh-Meridian, Idaho.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Odenton, MD,USA
I did it! Filled up with 93 octane, came home
unhooked the battery for approx 2 hours; removed half of the stock air cleaner assembly, allowing my K$N to take in probably twice the amount of air. I didn't do a DYNO test, but I'll say this, prior to
this tweaking I was getting 12-14 MPG (Yes on
the highway) - I recivied 16 MPG on my first tank, and much to my pleasant surprise my last tank was a little under 18. Other factors could possibly be contributing (cooler temps), less wind etc etc. But this is worth a try folks. I FEEL a difference - could be making the chip relearn, calibrate,
or whatever. Im happy maybe you will be also.
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Hoopman// 98 F150 Ext, 4.6L, 4x4, ORP, Teal, K&N, Smittybult tube steps, soon superchip'd
unhooked the battery for approx 2 hours; removed half of the stock air cleaner assembly, allowing my K$N to take in probably twice the amount of air. I didn't do a DYNO test, but I'll say this, prior to
this tweaking I was getting 12-14 MPG (Yes on
the highway) - I recivied 16 MPG on my first tank, and much to my pleasant surprise my last tank was a little under 18. Other factors could possibly be contributing (cooler temps), less wind etc etc. But this is worth a try folks. I FEEL a difference - could be making the chip relearn, calibrate,
or whatever. Im happy maybe you will be also.
------------------
Hoopman// 98 F150 Ext, 4.6L, 4x4, ORP, Teal, K&N, Smittybult tube steps, soon superchip'd
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: North Carolina
I'd like to see a graph of HP vs RPM for 87 octane, 93 octane, and the superchip on three trucks with the same engine. The graphs could be overlaid to show the HP increases.
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html
------------------
The Truck: 1997 Black F-150 Flareside. Regular Cab ORP and Towing Package
The Mods: K&N Filter, Eurolid Hard Tonneau and Ford Bug Deflector.
The Site:
Triton's 4.6 Liter Web Page
www.mindspring.com/~acbradley/index.html