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Old Jul 24, 2009 | 06:59 PM
  #16  
jbrew's Avatar
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From: MI
Originally Posted by b2therad
Okay jbrew, I am back with a little bit of info. I did the DPFE test like you said and it ran 5.05volts (VREF) and .02volts-.05volts on the (SIG RETURN). The results running were near the same. I manually applied vacuum to the EGR valve while idling and it had no effect on the engine. I could hear the diaphragm moving up and down. Does this mean I need to give the throttle body a really good clean-out?

Im going to tear it all down on saturday and do the upper and lower gaskets, and I will also clean out the throttle body really well also. I did not have time to do it today, and my wheels were late. Hopefully I can get this all figured out. Thanks a ton for all the help so far!
Good job ! I think lol. - So you tested the center wire with RPMS ? Like I did in the Video ? Volts @ .02 is good @ KOEO, - then it went to .05 ?

Here's the Vid again ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/jbrew393...07882591006386

This is CENTER wire only ^^^^^

Here's what you should have ,-or close to it (again, center wire ONLY) -

0.02 KOEO.
0.10 KOER.
0.10-0.19 Readings progress from Idle -WOT, w/rpms.

____________________________

ALL pins @ the harness connector w/ KOEO should read close to this -

Top (Signal) - 5.06 V
Middle (SIG RTN) - 0.02 V
Bottom (VREF) - 5.08 V

Yea that's the KeyOnEngineOff set and covers a harness or wiring problem. Make sure the wires are in good shape, - a open VREF can cause DTC's.

Did you notice how the Top Wire + Middle = VREF ? I'm not sure if that means anything.
__________________________________

I'll post on the EGR in a second here - I'm trying to convert from Coax to CAT5 at the moment - Whatuh PITA

Edit:

EGR valve:

Are you sure the diaphragm is working the valve? Sure your not hearing just air? It must be if you can pump it up, right?

Well here's what you don't want to do.

Don't pump them up more than 5hg's (specially an older diaphragm), - you can blow the diaphragm. The diaphragm in the valve are fragile and won't take much abuse. So if you clean using compressed air and solvents to assist, chances are, you'll compromise the valve. I've blew them before. Ford deems most sensors un-serviceable. However, where there's a will , there's a way.

To service the valve, -position in a bench vise TB elbow port up w/valve close . Use SeaFoams "DeepCreep" (Most AutoZone's stocks this) spray valve(not to much) and soak for 5 minutes . Flip over (TB port is down) and work the valve w/ vac tool. The DeepCreep product cleans the carbon that can result in a sticky valve and lubes at the same time. It's also the only product I use on the IAC,-another sensitive sensor.

____________________________________

Throttle Body:

Hang on -dinner time

EDIT:

I thought you said you cleaned the Throttle body? Usually this involves the elbow and ports.

The 98 4.6L is well known to plug up here-



_______________________________

Doing the gaskets Tomorrow ? Make sure you have everything you need. Year specific gaskets are needed for these engines because Ford moved the dowel holes around so much. Make sure you clean all metal surfaces well. I use a little PortaCable palm sander on the heads , then Lacquer thinner before setting new gaskets. It takes time to be thorough, but you only want to have to do this once.

BTW- You'll need the elbow to manifold gasket on that model - It a compression gasket, just like the EGR valve gasket. Those are the ones that leak if not changed once removed.

Also,- make sure you tighten the manifold in sequence/stages.
 

Last edited by jbrew; Jul 24, 2009 at 08:31 PM.
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Old Jul 24, 2009 | 11:38 PM
  #17  
b2therad's Avatar
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Originally Posted by jbrew
Good job ! I think lol. - So you tested the center wire with RPMS ? Like I did in the Video ? Volts @ .02 is good @ KOEO, - then it went to .05 ?

Here's the Vid again ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/jbrew393...07882591006386

This is CENTER wire only ^^^^^

Here's what you should have ,-or close to it (again, center wire ONLY) -

0.02 KOEO.
0.10 KOER.
0.10-0.19 Readings progress from Idle -WOT, w/rpms.

____________________________

ALL pins @ the harness connector w/ KOEO should read close to this -

Top (Signal) - 5.06 V
Middle (SIG RTN) - 0.02 V
Bottom (VREF) - 5.08 V

Yea that's the KeyOnEngineOff set and covers a harness or wiring problem. Make sure the wires are in good shape, - a open VREF can cause DTC's.

Did you notice how the Top Wire + Middle = VREF ? I'm not sure if that means anything.
__________________________________

I'll post on the EGR in a second here - I'm trying to convert from Coax to CAT5 at the moment - Whatuh PITA

Edit:

EGR valve:

Are you sure the diaphragm is working the valve? Sure your not hearing just air? It must be if you can pump it up, right?

Well here's what you don't want to do.

Don't pump them up more than 5hg's (specially an older diaphragm), - you can blow the diaphragm. The diaphragm in the valve are fragile and won't take much abuse. So if you clean using compressed air and solvents to assist, chances are, you'll compromise the valve. I've blew them before. Ford deems most sensors un-serviceable. However, where there's a will , there's a way.

To service the valve, -position in a bench vise TB elbow port up w/valve close . Use SeaFoams "DeepCreep" (Most AutoZone's stocks this) spray valve(not to much) and soak for 5 minutes . Flip over (TB port is down) and work the valve w/ vac tool. The DeepCreep product cleans the carbon that can result in a sticky valve and lubes at the same time. It's also the only product I use on the IAC,-another sensitive sensor.

____________________________________

Throttle Body:

Hang on -dinner time

EDIT:

I thought you said you cleaned the Throttle body? Usually this involves the elbow and ports.

The 98 4.6L is well known to plug up here-



_______________________________

Doing the gaskets Tomorrow ? Make sure you have everything you need. Year specific gaskets are needed for these engines because Ford moved the dowel holes around so much. Make sure you clean all metal surfaces well. I use a little PortaCable palm sander on the heads , then Lacquer thinner before setting new gaskets. It takes time to be thorough, but you only want to have to do this once.

BTW- You'll need the elbow to manifold gasket on that model - It a compression gasket, just like the EGR valve gasket. Those are the ones that leak if not changed once removed.

Also,- make sure you tighten the manifold in sequence/stages.
Wow you are very thorough, and its very much appreciated by the way. As far as my DPFE, all of the voltage readings match perfectly with what you are telling me. After all, it is a two month old DPFE.
As far as the EGR, it is only 4 months old. It is a motocraft part. Its one of the new chrome appearing models. And I used a vacuum and tested it, and it did not affect the engine at all. I then tried doing it manually by getting some vacuum hose laying around the shop and trying to suck on the end of the hose, which also had no effect. It was basically pointless to do it manually but I was just being thorough. But im fairly confident that I could hear the diaphragm moving up and down. It had a very distinct sound that did not sound like air to me.
The throttle body was cleaned or so I thought. I did not take it completely off
so it may be clogged up where you have shown in the picture. Its coming completely off tomorrow, and im going to go to town trying to get it all cleaned up. Im sorry I dont have any pictures yet, but I will be sure to take some. The whole getting new wheels thing rolled over into today. And their machine broke while trying to put my 33inch tires on a 10 inch wheel. My truck was at the shop for almost 5 hours today. When I take it apart I will be sure to take some pictures, and hopefully we can get this all figured out! Thanks a ton man
 
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Old Jul 25, 2009 | 02:07 AM
  #18  
jbrew's Avatar
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From: MI
Thanks for the compliment, - it's not that I'm a big fan of being thorough,- I just hate doing crap over again :o

I'm guessing you have no idea what I mean by 5 hg. Your vacuum pump should be gauged in inches of mercury (hg's). If you supply more than 5 you can blow the diaphragm in the EGR valve testing it.

Does your guage look something like this? -



You can blow a NEW valve in about 3 seconds if your not monitoring the pump.

So, either you blew the diaphragm in your new valve or yea, the throttle body EGR elbow port is COMPLETELY plugged. ?
 
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Old Jul 25, 2009 | 12:10 PM
  #19  
b2therad's Avatar
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Originally Posted by jbrew
Thanks for the compliment, - it's not that I'm a big fan of being thorough,- I just hate doing crap over again :o

I'm guessing you have no idea what I mean by 5 hg. Your vacuum pump should be gauged in inches of mercury (hg's). If you supply more than 5 you can blow the diaphragm in the EGR valve testing it.

Does your guage look something like this? -



You can blow a NEW valve in about 3 seconds if your not monitoring the pump.

So, either you blew the diaphragm in your new valve or yea, the throttle body EGR elbow port is COMPLETELY plugged. ?
Well I will have to check again. I just made sure the diaphragm was moving up and down. After I used the vac I used my mouth, and it made the same sound both ways. I am banking on the EGR port being really nasty. Maybe I can clean it up today.
 
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Old Jul 25, 2009 | 01:47 PM
  #20  
jbrew's Avatar
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From: MI
Yea, - Pump it up to 5 hg with the engine off first. The gauge should hold right there @ 5hg. If it's leaking, you'll know almost right away, - it will bleed itself down, -quick! lol.

But yea, if she's holding @ 5hg for a minute or so, the valve is good, -problem has to be the ports.

A 98 4.6L ?? - Those ports are probably pretty nasty by now.

Good Luck!
 
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