I use to be big into Mobil 1... Not anymore!

Penzzoil Platinum has been test better and is still under $20 a handle. After their price raise (and reading about Platinum) --- Screw Mobil 1!

 

The guy originally never asked for any opinions on specific brands he asked if full synthetic was worth it. The answer is 100% yes. The main advantage to full sythetic is that it is full suspending. When the engine is cut off the oil supsends on engine parts and keeps the parts lubricated. This way on cold starts your compenents are coated with all and the oil doesnt have to pump through the system before lubricating. The synthetic blend is really no better than regular non synthetic motor oil. Full synthetic is the only way to go and to be honest there isnt much difference in any brand as long as it is 100% synthetic

 

As you can see from some of the posts, there are different types of synthetic oils out there and each has an advantage and each has it's disadvantages. What used to be a common synthetic was a polyalphaolifin basestock better known as PAO and is still the base oil for Amsoil and Royal Purple. Amsoil uses it because it is more stable than the common base oils and even that of the common dino synthetic Gp III's. But Amsoil builds oil for extended oil changes, RP does not. The ZDDP in Amsoil exceeds the limits set by API and ZDDP is suspected of causing issues with the emissions system so the use of Amsoil in your engine will void the factory warranty should you have an oil related failure. RP is API certified but won't go the distance even though some folks think that because it says synthetic it must be as strong as Amsoil- it isn't. No PAO will add one mile to the life of your engine as there is no more lubricity in PAOs than dino oils. PAOs are made in polar positive and negative bases. The negative does not stick to the parts at all and will run off. Tackifiers are used to make it stick but it is an additive that over time can be depleted- not good. Polar positive will stick to the parts but it sticks with such force that the additive package can't get to the parts and wear is accelerated. Usually something like an alkylated napthalene is used to break the film strength down so that the add pack can work. PAOs are becoming scare so expect that Amsoil and RP will have to reformulate or watch the price go out of sight. Most of the OTC synthetic oils are a Gp III dino. For normal oil change intervals they do a decent job but they don't do anything a common dino won't. The blends turn in the lowest wear metals averagely and considering the VI on todays oils, heat is no longer an issue or a reason to use one oil over the other. I'd suggest picking an oil that you feel comfy with, meets the requirements in your owners manual, and enjoy the ride. It's pretty hard to buy a bad oil today as long as it has the Ford spec on the bottle.

 

yep, as found on the front of Mobil 1 5w 20

 

I heard that synthetic oil is a lot thinner then conventional oil. So if there was a small leak before, its a big one now. Is this true or was my auto tech teacher totally full of crap?

 

As always, interesting reading, Labnerd.

WRT synth, blends, or non, what is your take on gear oils? Anything stand out as far as what might be more beneficial in our differentials?

And ATFs, what's your opinion on those fluids with regards to Mercon V?

Thanks.

Joey

 

A 5w-20 is a 5w-20 weight! Modern engine seals take care of the problems of yesteryears seals, your teach is full of it!.............

 

Why are PAOs becoming scarce?

 

From the bottom up:
PAOs are becoming scare because the ethylene gas suitable to make it is becoming scarce. PAOs are also being used in other fluids where there is more profit to be had.

A 5w-20 is not just a 5w-20. Some have extreme cold flow characteristics that others don't have while others may be thicker at temp than others. While everybody knows the name 5w-20, the 20 is a common SAE name, not a technical name. The range for a 5w-20 oil at temp is 5.60cST to 9.29cST at 100C on the kinematic scales and 61.2cST to 74.8cST at 210F SUS on the Saybolt scales. So there is a lot of room for one oil to be thicker/thinner than another and still be a 20 at temp. Where the synthetics had issues with seals is that it had a lot of solvency and nothing in the add pack for the seals. PAOs do nothing, absolutely nothing for seals which depend on the oil as a swelling agent. The solvency cleaned any and all of the sludge/varnish at the seals and leaks were common.....but that was at least 15 years ago. Old habits and old news are hard to die. FWIW, most of the PAOs will have an ester of some kind for the seal swell agent.

ATFs are a fun bag. Mercon V is a dino synthetic if you are using Motorcraft. It is formulated for your Ford product. It has the correct frictional co-efficient so that your transmission will live a long life. Ford does not have to supply the after market formulators with the correct frictional info. The after markets simply start with a base fluid and add agents/additives until it passes THEIR criteria for being acceptable in your transmission. After market fluids are generally a one fluid fits all. It covers a wide variety of applications and not all may have the same co-efficient. But the fluid works and some times you might see a temp drop in the fluid and think that's great! It may not be so great if the transmission should be slipping but instead it's slowly grinding itself into powder. And a fluid that maybe slips too much builds heat shortening transmission life. If you maintain a vehicle correctly and change ATF at the manufacturers schedule, use the right fluid made specifically for your transmission. It'll last a lot longer.
Gear oils. Make sure that the oils has lots and lots of moly disulphide in it. It should be black and the blacker the better. Most of todays manual transmissions have ATFs in them as well as axles. It is a near perfect fluid for that application as it is thin enough to get moving in cold weather, has loads of additives like friction modifiers and extreme pressure agents, and has a seal swell agent for long seal life. When we first saw them in these applications I thought this isn't going to last long. But they have been holding up just fine and will out last any of the old high vis oils.

Hope that covers the questions.

 

Yeah... What he said
seriously however, good info.

 

Thanks for all the usefull info Labnerd but I got one last question... in conclusion...
Are you saying that Amsoil and Royal Purple don't over manufacture any of their products as to be superior to Ford products for Ford or the norm?
I use Golden Spectro in my Motorcycles over 20 years and maybe that's a waste too?

 

Labnerd, thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

Speaking of gear oils and moly disulphide, without us having to read all the labels, what gear oils have the most?

 

I always got that vibe from him that he never really knew what he was talking about.

 

Not sure which has the most but Ford uses Molly disulfide (friction modifiers) they add separately....least they did when I put RP gear oil in my diff. The 2004 owners manual calls for 75W-90. Ford service manual says book is wrong and 75W-140 is proper because of problems with gear whine? If the dealer didn't do it I never would have know better.

 

Old Dogg, I'm not sure what you mean by "over manufacture". My stepdad always used the phrase "if a little bits good, a whole lot is better" and doesn't always apply. Why use an 18 wheeler to haul feathers? In the case of ZDDP, like in Amsoil PAO oils, the huge amount included in the formulation has been determined to be hazardous to your emissions systems by the ILSAC. The ILSAC is made up of all the auto makers in the US and they set the standards by which they will engineer their products. The lubrication standards are set BEFORE they ever get out the paper to design a new engine/transmission. Or better said, the engines/transmissions are designed around the lubrication specs, not the oils designed around the engines/transmissions. Because we have high emissions standards and the gassing of ZDDP can cause catastrophic damage to those systems, the API, which enforces the specs by ILSAC, has set maximum limits and that's why Amsoil is not API certified. But it's also what makes Amsoil go the distance over others. The European makers don't have these emissions systems/limits and you'll also find they have much longer OCIs than we do. Maybe that answers the question.
In regards to the Spectro, here's an MSDS on it. I've never seen any test data on it but the flash point seems far too low. It could be a binder that they are using that's flashing early but 205F is awfully low. As you can see, it's mostly a dino oil, around 80%. I wouldn't consider it a premium product by looking at the MSDS. I'd suggest Amsoil Motorcycle oil over this one especially if your bike uses the same oil for the transmission and engine. Shearing in the transmission is high and the oil needs lots of ZDDP which Amsoil is famous for.
http://www.spectro-oils.com/pdfs/msd...GSCF85_150.pdf

For a gear oil high in moly disulphide, if you can find LiquiMoly or if you can find the Holden Moly Concentrate, those are high in moly. But finding them is going to be a problem. I'd suggest looking for the gear oil as recommended in the owners manual and change at their OCI schedule. That pretty much makes Chevron, Pennzoil, and others on the easier list to look for.