Nice post droog.

No I am not in politics.

Instead of being an a$$ why don't you be a grown up and explain why you think what I wrote is wrong.

A cold engine DOES produce more moisture for the first few minutes. this is just a property of gasoline. yes and some of it is from condensation. if you still don't believe me then why is there a hole in the stock muffler? 1st cold start up a lot of water flows out but after a long trip nothing.

(I shortened my answer for droog)

Gijoe if you don't think that water can get past the rings you are missinformed. go sart your truck in the am and let it run 60 seconds then turn it off. dont drive it. do this five days in a row then get a UOA

If the engine doesn't produce extra moisture at first start up then why are short trips so bad for the engine? short enough droog?

becuase droog can't read more than one sentence at a time I will not elaborate further.

 

Marty Feldman was one of the few people who could read more than one sentence at a time.

 

Yeah , water gets past the rings - tritonpwr has a good writeup on that as well..

 

Always.

 

Thanks jbrew.

Here is some hard core reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

 

I let mine warm up until the idle comes down below 1,000 rpm. Then I drive it easy until it comes up to full operating temp. Unless I see someone with the Troyer tune, then me and my cute edge stomp on it until I pass em.

 

Actually he is exactly right. You must be a democrat because you refuse to see the truth anyways, there have been links posted here if you care to take the time to read them. Either way..it is your vehicle and you can treat it any way you want to. End of story. SO the name calling and bashing is pretty stupid.

 

No, it does not. Burn a particular volume of gasoline (or any hydrocarbon for that matter) and you will get a particular molecular volume of CO2 and a particular molecular volume of H2O in vapor form. That's simple chemistry. It does not matter whether you're talking about the first few minutes running a cold engine, or after running at wide open throttle pulling a 10,000 lb trailer uphill. The engien is producing water vapor any time it's running. Period.

That's not rocket science either. When the exhaust system is cold, you're blowing warm, moist exhaust gasses through cold steel pipes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that some of that water vapor is going to condense, and form a puddle at the lowest point in the system. If there was no drain hole there, that puddle would rot the muffler from the inside out.

Because more water condenses on the inside of cold pipes (at start-up) than hot pipes (after a long drive). In your house, which pipes sweat more on a hot, humid summer day? The hot water pipes or the cold water pipes?

No need for personal attacks. Be a bigger man, ignore the responses you find offensive (or report them to an administrator) and move on.

I beg to differ. WATER does not get past the rings. Water vapor does leak past the rings. This is called blow-by and is completely normal. Now, take warm water VAPOR and put it in a cold engine block, and yes, some of that water vapor will condense on the cold components, just like moisture condensing on a cold glass of water. But water does not leak past your rings and into your crankcase any more than water leaks out of your picnic table and onto your glass.


I don't need to do that to know that there will be higher levels of water in the oil than if you didn't do that. So what's your point?

The engine does not PRODUCE any more water vapor for the reasons I explained above. However, with short trips, the engine never has an opportunity to come up to operating temperature. If the engine is allowed to come up to operating temperature, the moisture that has accumulated in the oil gets hot, vaporizes, and is sucked into the intake via the PCV system, and blown back out the exhaust. If you don't believe me, do your five cold starts, then do a used oil analysis, then take it for a 10 minute drive on the freeway, and do another used oil analysis. You'll see the moisture level in the oil has dropped.

Arguing your point because you are right is one thing. Arguing because you want to be right is another.

 

I dont warm mine up even when its really cold. I figure if im out there I might as well get going so if it does get a warm up it would be if im loading stuff into the back for work. I then head to Dunkin for coffee with the od off for a few extra rpms to help aid in the warm up process. Then hit the highway and up to 74mphs warms really quick then.

 

I was under the impression that water/condensation is due to warm air touching a cold block thus the cause of condensation, just like a glass of ice water on a hot summer day. That's not to say that byproducts don't help the process, they certainly do as a byproduct of combustion is water vapor, and it will find it's way into the engine. It has less than nothing to do with the PCV system simply because this process continues after you turn off your engine. The block cools first, then the humidity in the warm engine condenses on the cooling block. If you never turned your engine off, then the PCV system would be something to look at, but considering every vehicle I have ever heard of is turned off at some point, what happens then no part of the engine has any control over. Just my opinion..

 

Another good (not to mention rational) point.... And I would absolutely agree, there will always be some slight amount of moisture detected in the oil... it's not a sealed system.

The PCV system is the only way out for the moisture once it's in the crankcase. Sure, there will always be some moisture in the crankcase. It's inevitable (and normal).

 

Damn you guys... too much arguing.

Just do what the manual says... that's what it's for.

 

I'm sorry, but after two pages I had to skip to the end. I'm sure by now this question has been properly answered, so I'll just confirm what that person said;

No, you should never just let your truck sit there and "warm up". After you start it, you let it sit until the idle returns to normal, and then you drive. Letting it "warm up" any longer is counter productive, and actually puts the rest of the drivetrain at risk. The tranny, rear end, brakes, and every other component in your truck that moves is designed to "warm up" together with all the others. The only way that is going to happen is by driving the truck. The manufacturers even went as far as to design the system to tell you exactly when you should start moving; as soon as the idle returns to normal.

It's remarkably simple when you think about it.

 

I just start it and drive but like someone said, dont just floor it befoire its been driving for a lil. Driving it cold isnt going to damage it unless you floor it and drag it before its been driving for a little bit.

 

Gijoe,

I am sorry that I let droog get the better of me. You are correct.

I also want to thank you for being better at articulating what I was trying to say about the excessive water at start up.

Yes the burning of Gasoline always produces water vapor
Yes water vapor gets past the rings (This is what I meant I just simplified it)
Yes a lot of water is produced at cold start becuase of cold metal condensation. This was really my only point.

I never meant this to become an argument. I have been on this site a long time and I have learned to just keep things as short as possible and sometimes when you do that you shoot yourself in the foot as I clearly did.

chris1450 I have no idea what you mean?

Peace-