LN, what do you think about Ford's recommendation on the 5w20 vs. the
5w30? I've read numerous articles touting that the motors tolerances aren't that vastly different from the mid 90's motors, but the only reason they've moved towards using 5w20 is to meet CAFE requirements.

I've got no problem using recommended lubes, but even the dealers around here have service employees that claim to use 5w30 and that they believe the 20 weight is just too light.

 

^ yea correct, using 5W20 over 5W30 nets extremely minor emissions improvements, so miniscule that you and me, average joes and janes, will NEVER EVER be able to tell a difference. but on a nationwide scale there will be enough statistical differentiation for ford to get a lovely stamp from uncle sam

agreeing wtih the other guys, you can use whatever the hell you want if you change your oil enough


personally i use mobil 1 full synth 5w30 changing every 4000-5000 miles whenever convenient; stock weight mercon V in the tranny every 15k miles; whatever dino oil stock weight my gear shop has on hand every 12k miles on gears

why dino oil in the gears and not synth? gears are oiled via the splashing by the turning of the gears themselves. youll notice the oil doesnt go all the way to the top of hte diff. dino oil leaves a better film on the gear and provides for better lubrication. also protects the clutches on the factory limited slip better. more friction and heat kills clutches

 

Doc,
I'm sure that Ford had CAFE in mind when they went to the lighter oils. The 153-H oils that were developed though, came out and exceeded expectations by a bunch. The spec does not allow the deposits or the variation in viscosity that you would have gotten with any Xw-30 oil. Now we have the 929 oils (5w-30) and the 930 oils (5w-20) that have basically the same specs. Todays oils are really an engineering wonder and the price is still reasonable. So, is there a major difference? The 930 oils will be on the thick end of the viscosity range whereas the 929 oils, if energy conserving, will be on the thin side of their respective viscosity range. That makes them fairly close to being the same viscosity. High mileage oils will be on the thick end of their range so for a 5w-30 HM oil, it will be considerably thicker than and EC oil. So, effectually, it really isn't going to make much difference which you use anymore. I think the basestock and the add packs are the most important thing if you are oil ****. At one time the Viscosity Index was an indicator of the worth of an oil but not so anymore. Flashpoint was an indicator but now some of the binders, especially in synthetics, will flash far ahead of the basestock so that's not a decent indicator. HT/HS was a good indicator at one time but now film strength has made that irrelevant to a point. Like I've stated, use what the manufacturer recommends and don't look back.
In regards to the early Tritons, there have been changes to the lube delivery system in the Tritons. The pressures are higher now. The one thing that they haven't changed is the drain back system. Folks that are using an oil like a 5w-50 are doing damage to their engines. It's far too heavy for it to get to the job fast, and get back to the pan to release heat. Remember that the oil also functions as a coolant. Common physics says that a thinner fluid will flow quicker, absorb and release heat faster which is the major reason why the 5w-20 performs so well in a high heat environment. Add the incredible film strengths that we have with the newer Gp II+ and Gp III basestocks that were only possible just a few years ago with a synthetic basestock, and you have the recipe for one heck of an oil. FWIW, did you know that most of the NASCAR Teams formulate their oils? They rarely ever run anything over a 20w oil. The formulations change depending on the track. The oil is formulated to yield as much HP as possible and make the engine last long enough to finish the race. The engine is an expendable part. Interesting some of the formulations as they are waaaay out in left field with it. And you thought Rusty Wallace actually used Mobil One. Hope this is useful info.

 

LabNerd: Who's Rusty Wallace? kidding.

I see that Amsoil claims on their website that some 85% of professional racers use their oil, but of course they cannot name who. I always thought Redline, Schaffer, and Neo were the top racing oils. I guess no one can really tell?

When you guys keep stating to "use what the manufacturer recommends" do you mean viscosity only or brand too? Like ONLY use Motorcraft 5w20 blend?

What is your take on these "blends?" I've heard that for any oil to be considered a blend, it only has to be 10% synthetic. That true?

The reason I stated earlier that Castrol is not really a synthetic (because it is group III), is because I know a chemE that works for Mobil and that was what he related to us, (so yes, it is heresay). He is also the reason we learned of Mobil's dispute over the Castrol syntec. Thanks for your input.

 

All I use is the MC 5w20 with no problems. You stated you did UOA's on some of the oil you used. Did you do it on the MC 5w20? If not, do it and you will see it does just as well as many of your other oils and better than many 5w30.

 

Well, I'm sure it is a good oil. I've got no doubts about that, however, I have purchased a bunch of oil already from these other manufacturers. It will be awhile before I need any more oil.

 

Doc, I know a few of the local race boys that run M1 but most use Redline. In a race engine you are running the oil at the boundary lube state and Redline is really good at that lube state. Some of the rail boys will use a straight 40 diesel rated oil. Fuel has a tendency to get past the rings because of the pressure from the blower and will thin an oil with fuel in just a couple of runs. I don't know of any race teams locally that run Amsoil- lots of fleets but no race teams.
Motorcraft is a relative bargain. The Gp III that they use is made in Korea and as I remember, I think they bought into the M/E Raffinate process which means it is cheap to make a Gp III with that process. Chevrons Severe Hydrocracking is now just too expensive of a process, by comparison, but that hasn't slowed Chevron down any. I'm not sure the mix on the Motorcraft anymore as formulations change almost daily. You really need a scorecard to keep up. At one time I think the MC was 15% Gp III. The best bargain of all is the Phillips 66 Trop Artic. It weighs in at 60% Gp III per their techs and that is this weeks info. It was available at most Dollar stores for a buck. Now that's a bargain. The Kendall and 76 oils will be the same as they are under the same corporate umbrella.
The blends are really the best of both worlds. You avoid some of the corrosion that can come with a POA and the add packs will mix quite readily. I have never heard of any stratification with a blend so shelf life isn't an issue. There aren't any additives for film strength to interfere with the add packs like the boron, moly or ZDDP. Not many VIIs due to the high Viscosity Indexs so sludge and other complications aren't an issue. The lowest wear metals we see are the blends so I think they are a good oil to have in your engine.
You can't blame any chemist from any oil manufacturer for touting his own product. The major leaders in the industry are Chevron and Mobil/Exxon. M/E has an fairly recent process for making POEs which will be a cheaper basestock than a POA. It has all of the pluses of a POA but only a few of the minuses of a POA. It should prove to be a great inovation. Chevron is still the quiet company that you rarely hear anything about yet they are always on the cutting edge with their lube technologies. And the folks that benefit the most are you and me.
Manufacturer recommends would the oil specification. Ford cannot tell you to buy a specific brand of anything unless they are to furnish it to you at no cost. They can specify the critieria for the products that you should use and must use if you want to maintain your warranty. For the new Triton engines it would be an oil that has the Ford spec 930a on the bottle along with the API certification. For some of the available oils, that leaves them out. Amsoil would not qualify unless you run their XL7500 but it is too expensive considering it is a Gp III blend. Some of the oils bottled as an SA rated would not qualify either. Of course, the SA rated oils don't qualify in any engine but it is sold everyday and folks never know the difference until the engine dies. As I remember correctly, Redline does not have API certification either. But use the oil that is specified in your owners manual and you can't go wrong.
Oh yeah, and Rusty Wallace. He's the guy that you pulled for every Sunday but rarely won a race. Kinda like Mark Martin but better looking. Probably the best two men to run the race and never win a championship. Too bad, great guys, both of them.

 

INTERESTING thread. In the past I thought little about oil, other than the fact that it lubricates, helps in the cooling process, and you need to change it and keep sufficient oil in a crankcase, and kinda knew the better ones from the not as good ones, never thinking much about any of them, especially the synthetic brands, and never really seeing any gains that would offset the cost of using synthetic oils.

In terms of the "dino" based oils, what about what we grew up usually being taught about some petroluem based oils having some kind of a parrafin-base.

Some of the best known, most popular based oils fall into this, like Pennzoil, and maybe Castrol?, and Kendall?

I always had good luck with Valvoline, and a difficult to find (around here) oil called Shell Rotella-T.

Even for those of us who do use dino type oils, change the oil and filter every 4k miles or less, I bet that an oil related failure would be rare...

I grew up being told about the benefits of diesel rated oils, but never used them. I for one am learning a lot by following this thread.

THANKS, keep it going!

Like the guy sez here in his sig - "ANY oil is better than no oil"...

 

Patrick, don't know where you are but Rotella T is available everywhere here, every Walmart, Autozone, Advanced Auto Parts, etc.

I certainly do not claim to be an oil expert, I'm not a chemE, but my whole background is chemisty/biochem/biology. I've only just begun reading more about all the "hype" when it comes to oil. I'm an evidence based guy too.

I'm always cynical when it comes to any "benefit" claims, but I have enjoyed reading up on all the available materials over the past 2 years. Sometimes, like LabNerb has brought up, it is hard to know who and what to believe.

One thing that seems to be unanimous is this: oil lab analysis guys seem to agree on one thing, dino oil is just as good as syntheitcs in terms of overall motor wear. However, most would use high dollar synthetics if it weren't for the price tag. So, what does that tell us? I'm not sure, but seems to me that there's something about the synthetics they like or they would not have made these statements to me.

In every case, when I posed the question: "if I told you I would supply you with any oil of your choice for all of your vehicles for the life of that vehicle, what would it be?" Their tunes changed. Even those that claimed to be "old school" stated emphatically, "well, if you put it that way, I'd go with one of the better synthetics...like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, Neo, Schaffer..."

Also, there seems to be agreement on the overall better lubricity of synthetics. Anyway, it is an interesting topic to me, and has been for a couple of years. I'm always wanting to learn more.

 

You got that right! As long as you got oil, everything's fine!


I agree. I used to put everything from engine oil, to hydraulic oil, to diff oil, to trans fluid in my old 89 chevrolet. It had 300,000+ miles on it, and it died of tranny failure. It burned oil, so I used whatever I had at the time. I kept it full!


Nobody with a fleet of trucks runs that crap or they'd be broke!!!!


Well if any spin on filter will filter a 20 micron particle, then what's the point of buying a "high performance" filter?


Read your owner's manual. It says to use a api certified oil and it recommends a certian viscosity. Translation: If you use dollar general 93 cent API certified oil, it won't void your warranty and you will get a normal service life out of your truck.


My truck burned 20w50 diesel oil like water. I think I used 2 gallons before 5,000 miles passed.

Yup!!


I believe that you should run what the owner's manual says, and stick with the recommended oil change interval. I use John Deere 10w30 and napa or John Deere filters and I change it at the recommended 5,000 mile mark. I have almost 175,000 miles on my work truck, and no problems. My dad had 245,000 on his chevy when he sold it, still running fine. All he used was strait 30 weight oil out of a 55 gal drum. I'm sure that amsoil is probably just as good as "dollar general" oil, so for those of you that run it, you're probably ok... Just make sure you keep it on the stick!

As for diff oil, power steering oil, brake fluid, etc.. I've never changed any of them. And I'm not going to cause the owner's manual doesn't say anything about it, and there's no point anyway, unless you have a problem.