OK, maybe this is ****, but...I played around with my new electrical temp gauge to test it out before putting it in. Got it all hooked up to the battery and everything and got my pot of hot water for the test. Well, I used a cooking thermometer that btw, I know is accurate because I used it to test all my mechanical gauges and they are always dead on the same [the thermometer and the mechanical gauges] So, the electrical gauge ended up reading anywhere from 10-15* cooler than the actual temp of the water. Is this normal for and elecric gauge??? Not really what I wanted to see. I know none of these gauges are dead on accurate to the .0000000001th of a degree but dang, 15 degrees???

 

HI!... I hate to say it to you my friend but "I TOLD YOU SO"! I have been telling everyone here for years that the "ELECTRICAL" gauges are not accurate. "MECHANICAL" temp gauges are the only way to go. I'm sorry to hear that you are having SO many problems with your gauges GALAXY. It make's me wish that I lived closer to you so I could help you out. I hope you get everything working the way you want eventually.

 

Neal, thanks for the moral support. It's frustrating because I know exactly what's going on but my hands are tied. I know for a fact the problem with my mechanical gauge was with the gauge itself but Autometer refuses to do anything but refund my money. Unfortunately, if I want a TRANS temp gauge, I had no choice but to get the electric one. I am with you on the mechanical vs electric but what can I do??? Hell, I would even go with another style (Phantom or something) if I hadn't already decked out my entire enterior in Carbon Fiber so everything would match.

Guess I shoulda just stuck the dang thing in there without checking it and I would have never of known the difference. I hate being so **** about my vehicles...

Have you heard or had any experience with the electrical?? I knew they wouldn't be as accurate but can't believe it's off that much.

Here's a question...The directions say use 18 gauge wire. For my test, I hooked it up with 12 gauge aircraft type aluminum core wire. Do you think that could have something to do with the readings???

 

HI!... GALAXY : Well 12 gauge wire is thicker than 18 gauge wire so I don't think the problem is there. But I would try to get some copper wire though. Cooper conducts electricity better than aluminum. It's worth a try. My very 1ST hot rod, I used electrical gauges and thought they were accurate. I tested them with a SNAP-ON thermometer and they were WAY off. When the gauge said 185 degree's, the actual temp of the coolant was 210!!!!!!!!!! That's a 25 degree difference. I tried several other electrical gauges after than and they were ALL off, including the AUTO-METER's.

 

Even with the problems I'm having with my mechanical gauge, I'm really leaning toward keeping it. Reason being, it usually unsticks after it warms up with 150-160 seeming to be the magic number. After it unsticks it works fine after that, that is until the next time it sits long enough for it to stick again

Plus I've really been torn about having one mechanical and one elecrical gauge sitting right beside each other...Like my wife said..."what do you care if it works or not as long as it looks good"

Think I'll try the copper wire for the heck of it but if that doesn't change anything, screw it.

 

HI!... GALAXY : I just checked out your gallery. What's your MUSTANG run in the 1/4 mile? Also..... Where can I get a HOT ROD GIRL like that one?

 

Neal,just went and got some automotive copper 18ga wire for a quick test... No change. Readings were the same but I swear I think the responsiveness was worse with the 18 copper than it was with my aircraft wire. Took longer to stabilize at the temp it seemed like.

Well, if you noticed from the pictures, I'm not much of a 1/4 mile fan, I'm more of a 2.5 mile kinda guy My best lap time at Willow Springs is 1:49.2 I have been told by friends at the track that if I had the right suspension set-up and could get traction, without changing anything else, it should run very mid or even low 12's. One guy told me 12.4's easy. Not to blow my own horn or anything but she's pretty light and fast.

As for the girl...it took me 29 years to find one like this. Sorry, but you're on your own

 

HI!... GALAXY : Well I'm 29 also and am still looking for the right woman. She must have a good sense of humor and HAS to like cars. Does yours have a younger sister? LOL!

 

WOW..sorry for butting in but I alwas thought Neal was a little older? Not sure why...I'll be 29 in March....I thought the wire was the problem to (coming from an Electrician)..With a small signal i thought the larger wire was too much resistance for it ..Interesting? good luck..

 

I'm not an electrician but from a mechanical point of view I always though the lenght did more for resistance rather than gauge. I was always taught you could go bigger in gauge without worries but length is what would offer too much resistance. I may be wrong. Either way, it had no effect on the readings. Off the record, she does have a little sister but trust me, you don't want none...Can you say "issues".

We met when I was 29, sorry. I'm 32 now, and not to rub it in or anything but the pictures really don't do her justice. Hey man, you guys are supposed to be helping me fix my gauge issues anyways...

 

Still not helping ,but ..you are correct also....Size,length,and material all matter in a wire's resistance...I didn't take lenght into consideration because your just going from the engine bay to the dash....Larger wire can handle more load at a set voltage...With the small signal strength the larger wire is making it harder to get that signal to where it's supposed to go..With the differences in what were talking here it should be negligible..

 

No flame, but -

A larger gauge wire of the identical material (copper) will always have less resistance than a smaller gauge wire. Always. Never changes, except at temperatures near absolute zero. It does not matter what level the voltage is at, 10 millivolts up to 100,000,000 volts.

That is why 10 gauge wire has less resistance per foot than 18 gauge wire. Resistance is approximately related to the cross sectional area of a given conductor.

Although it would be very hard to work with #10 on a gauge, it would work just fine, with even less loss than a 18 gauge wire.

BTW -

Just because Neal hasn't had success with electric gauges does not mean they are inaccurate. What exactly does he think the computer in his truck uses to set various operational parameters of the engine? It sure isn't an analog (mechanical) input to that computer. Same goes for most high quality diagnostic equipment. I'm not talking about the 3 gauge set at Pep Boys for $29.99 by the way.

As far as Snap-On, their diagnostic tools are not necessarily the best reference tools in the industry. If you ask around, you'll find that to a more prevalent opinion than I first believed it was.

Finally, if you have a few free minutes, read up on the NIST web site. One thing you will find out is they don't use mechanical anything to set measurement standards anymore. Damn near everything is electronic now.

Kind of like watches... A Rolex may be nice, but it can't compete with a cheap $10 quartz crystal based watch for accuracy...

 

Galaxy,

I am 46, married and uglier than héll so Don't worry about me. Cute girl but i have belly butten lint that is older.

Now about your guage. Where have you taken your signal from? Both the Mechanical and electric?

JMC

 

HI!... B-Man : I don't care what AUTO METER says on their site. They are wrong and around here I could prove them wrong on that point about a hundred times. I've probably gone through about 15 electrical TEMP guages on various vehicles over the years. Not one, and I mean NOT ONE has been within 15 degree's of what the right temp actually was. You are right that the PCM in our trucks uses electric sensors to get info. Mabey that's why our tachs are off by 500RPMS at WOT, our oil pressure gauge don't work, the cylinder temp is off. I'm not say ALL electrical gauges are crap. Just the electrical TEMP gauges are. Sure you want to spend $500 for a high quality TEMP gauge the go ahead but for the cheap one's you buy from AUTO METER or AUTO ZONE they are CRAP!!! I'll stick to my MECHANICAL temp gauges thankyou. It was decided a long time ago in the HOT RODDER community around here that the MECHANICAL temp gauges are the ONLY accurate way to go. JMO.

 

Galaxy -

Just a thought: Are you sure the ground for the gauge is EXACTLY the same as the ground the sending unit is using? I mean, when you dropped the sending unit into the pot of boiling water, did you have 2 wires running to the unit (both ground and signal)?

I have learned over the past few weeks that the interior of my truck has several different grounds, and they are not all identical. This manifests itself as engine noise in the tweeters, for example. Do yourself a favor and be sure to check it out, if you haven't already. Like I said earlier, my temp gauge indicates about 195* when the truck is warmed up and cruising, so I think it is fairly accurate, even for an electric unit...


Neal -

OK. Let's see... I'm guessing that the tach in your truck is mechanically driven, right? You have a mechanical cable going to a gear drive somewhere and it in turn actually turns a gear drive in the tach, therefore omitting all electrical components. It doesn't use inductive force to swing the needle, right? It's not an electrical unit that counts pulses generated by an electrical pickup and delivered to the truck's PCM, right? I'm sure you also have the proper test equipment to prove that the engine really is turning 500 RPM slower or faster than displayed at WOT.

For what it's worth, your beloved mechanical temp gauge is not perfect. Did you know that the temperature of the display unit can DRASTICALLY affect the readings delivered by the capillary feed into it? It works off simple pressure changes that cause the needle to swing. The same temp changes on the display end cause variations in the displayed temp as well. Electrical gauges are immune to this. If you ever worked with really accurate mechanical gauges you'd know that they are designed with a temperature controlled environment as part of the equation. The cab of a passenger vehicle hardly qualifies for that.

I'm also guessing that you and everyone else would not hesitate to pay an extra $1,000 so Ford could put instruments into the truck that are accurate within .1%. I agree that as drivers the people in this forum would probably embrace all of those cool items and would like the increased accuracy of better instrumentation. But let's be realistic: If you buy and operate the truck from Ford like the MAJORITY of consumers do, the stock instrumentation is completely adequate for the uses the truck was designed for. Ford operates in a cut-throat environment. Competition is fierce and every dollar counts. The average consumer could give a crap less about the tach being off by 500 RPMs at WOT. With the automatic and computer in the truck, the TACH is just a luxury anyway. The gauges that are in the truck suffice for 95% of the consumers who purchased them. Therefore, it makes economic sense for Ford to build them that way. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just pointing out that BEAN COUNTERS and marketing folks, not engineers or drivers, run almost EVERY company.

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean the facts are any different. I suppose the fact that I've used electrical gauges for many years myself (and I'm sure hundreds of others have as well) and I never have had an issue with them does not count for anything?

I guess you'll be removing the fuel injection and electronic ignition from your truck too. Get rid of that CD player and get a turntable too. It's analog, you know... I guess you could skip the turntable and go with an 8 track or cassette tape as well.

What's really funny is the gauge(s) that started this whole thread was a expensive MECHANICAL gauge that malfunctioned, not an electrical unit. It was also replaced 3 times. If someone were to take that statistic out of context, mechanical gauges would never be sold again. They are just too unreliable, etc...

In a nutshell, you should avoid making gross generalizations about equipment, people, etc. and using a few of your own personal experiences to make blanket statements that cover literally millions of instances.