sscully -

EXACTLY !!

I have 2 switches wired to my VSC - 1 for always on, another to interrupt the signal from the AC to the VSC (for highway driving). I purchased both from Radio Shack as mentioned before.

Richard D -

If you post a schematic drawing of the switch you tried to use that blew the big fuse, I could tell what the problem was. I could have used illuminated switches, but I decided I didn't want more lights on my dash. What I did instead was install LED's to indicate if the fuses are blown on the circuits to the fans. After my fuse blow incident a few months ago, I decided I needed to know fuse status more than when the fans are running or not.

 

Look for a comment section somewhere in the checkout procedure

As for the switch yes then that typ of switch wil work. I personally like a switch that has a light so I know it is on. Not necassarly working but on using a switch that has no light can get you into trouble if you do not pay attention to your temp gauge. If you want a lighted swicth you MUST use the FAL switch.

Richard

 

Let me post this again, as it seems to have been missed above :

ANY illuminated switch that does not have a LED indicator lamp will work with this config, including the indicator lamp to show when it is activated. It is not a case of FAL making a "special" SPST switch.

Illuminated ( non LED ) SPST switch has 3 contacts on it.
Pin 1: one side of the Normally Open contacts ( usually called supply power if you are using it for say driving lamps )
Pin 2: Adjacent side of the Normally Open contacts ( the side the circuit is being completed to )
Pin 3 : Adjacent side of the indicator lamp that uses pin 2 as the other side fo the circuit.

Using the same config of ANY SPST switch with the above config ( that is what it is, nothing else ) when the circuit is completed between Pin 1 & pin 2, what ever is on Pin 1 is passed to Pin 2. In the case of the FAL usage, ground is what needs to be present on Pin 2 to the VSC, so ground also needs to be on Pin 1.

Now with half the indicator lamp circuit completed at Pin 2 ( ground side ) the other side of the indicator lamp is on Pin 3.
If we have ground on one side of a non LED indicator lamp, what is needed to make it light ?
Power.
Nothing else, just good old 12 volts, so we put the other side of the circuit to Pin 3, which in this case is power ( + 12 volts ).

What is yielded in the config above ?

A switch configuration that passes ground from Pin 1 to Pin 2 ( the connection on the VSC that needs ground to work ) and an indicator lamp that has ground one one side ( Pin 2 ) to power on the other side ( Pin 3 ).

If the switch is turned off, so ground is no longer being passed to Pin 2, the indicator lamp only has power on one side of it, an open on the other sdie ( not a completed circuit ) , and thus the indicator lamps goes out. Simple DC circuit in action.

If you still don't believe it, let me know.
I will post pictures of a illuminated switch ( non LED ) that works both ways, if you do not have one to test with, along with the schematics for it showing the above mentioned internal wiring diagram for the illuminated ( non LED ) indicator lamp SPST swtich.

Again this is for a NON LED switch ONLY ! A diode needs current flow to be one way specific, so if the indicator lamp is LED, then the LED for the indicator lamp needs to be put in backwards ( so the ground and Power are reversed and current flow is correct for the diode section of the LED ).

Again please let me know if this is not clear, I will take the time to post the pictures showing both ways of configuring a SPST switch.

Got the SPST illuminated switch, power ( truck battery ) and the meter to show every thing handy in the garage as I type this.

 

Great info, you guys! I will want a manual on switch (over-ride) as well as an off (with the FAL kit). What should I do? How would you recommend I wire the leads?


Thanks!

 

Matt,

2 options for how the switch and indicator lamps look, but the same results.

Option #1, using a Carlington Switches DPDT on/off/on ( center position is off ) that has built in indicator lamps. One side of the switch has a larger indicator lamp then the other, so this could be the over ride system off side, where the side with the smaller indicator lamp has the system run indicator lamp on it.
These switches are *slightly* over kill. Water proof, 20 amps, and cost about 11.00 each, but it is all in a single package. The one thing I can say is I know these are not LED indicator lamps.
The Carlingtonswitch part number for the one that I have is VJD1.

This diagram shows the internal workngs of the switch and how to connect it to the VSC and how to power the indicator lamps.
All Blue lines are internal to the switch, and then I tried to keep ground black and power red.


Option #2 uses a standard off the shelf ( maybe 5 amp rated ) SPDT center off switch. This is also a on/off/on switch, but without built in indicator lamps. The drawing shows how to put in seperate indicator lamps like the 5/16" painless wiring LED indicators ( I get them at a local speed shop, that is why I use these myself ), or any other indicator lamp LED or incadesent will work.
Again blue lines are the switch itself, the red and black lines are power and ground.


This is the easiest way to put in both the manual on and manual off on the FAL kit.

If you are not looking for a manual off ( for say water crossings ) then use a seperate switch to turn off the AC activation of the fans ( which could be done with the DPDT Carlington switch on the second set of contacts, but that is another drawing ).

Hope this answers your questions, the brand specific items I point out are due to the fact that : 1. I have then locally available to me or 2.) I have used that one specifically in the past and know hwo that one works, others should work the same, but the switch diagram needs to be checked before wiring.

Let me know if this answers your question.

Steve

 

For you guys that are worried about burning your eFans out or whatever is your reason for wanting to switch the fans off on the AC cycle I can say this. I still have my old Buick Century and it has 240k Miles on it and the eFan is still going strong. It's efan runs constantly with the AC or defrost on too. I just recently added another 10" efan to my buick and the air is blowing even colder now.

Funny story. My wife (Hapy) is driving our truck the other day with the AC cranked and her left wrist is starting to hurt on the steering wheel, heh. She said she moved her wrist away from the wheel and realized it was the darned AC blowing so cold on it that was making it hurt. I had a good laugh about that one!

 

SSCULLY let me say this one more time in case you did not understand what i was saying . I already purchased a regular illuminated switch and wired it just as you have explained above. And when i flipped the switch to shuit the fans off It ground out the 12 volts source I had used to light the illuminated switch. and since I had tied it into a igintion power source for the 12 volts it blew one of the 50 amp ignition fused becasue when i flipped the switch instead of grounding out the FAL ciruit it was wired to it grounded out the 12 volts source. I then got a replacement fuse and tried to wire it another way and got the same results. So I called Flex-A-Lite technical help and was told by them that in orde to have an illuminated switch that works when a groond signal is sent to the VSC it has to be there switch. I then told them the problem i ran into when trying to use a regular illuminated switch and they told me that is why I ned to use there switch. So you may be right in your theory but I am telling you from first hand personall experiance of what happen to me when I tried to use a regular switch.

Richard

 

Richard,

I don't know for sure how you had it wired, or if you got the internal wiring diagram for the switch to know which way was which.
Just so you know, I actually did this before my previous post, to know that the advice I was passing along was good, and not just theory. I knew before my post that it worked. Sorry, I just don't like to knowingly pass bad advice.

Drop me an email, I'll send the movie clip off to you showing me turning on the switch wired as shown in the daigram, and you can hear the fans run, and see the light on.

Here is the diagram for the pictures that I used:


The diagram provides the color of the wiring used in the following pictures :

Picture of the hook up to the battery to show the sire colors used :
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...0486&anum=2028
Picture of the back of the switch: The single white wire goes to the VSC terminal #6 for manual run.
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...0487&anum=2028
The pictures of the switch off, and the switch on, with the fans running.
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...0488&anum=2028
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...0489&anum=2028

Like I said above, I have the video clip of me turning on the fans, and it shows the front of the switch illuminated while the fans were running, blowing no fuses.

Don't know what else to say, but it worked with the Carlington SPST illuminated switch that I have, wiring it backwards to what is normal ( i.e. where ground usually is hooked up I put power, and for where the power into the switch I put ground ).

Sorry but my post was also from 1st hand personal knowledge of doing it myself. It actually was not theory.

Edit : One other question, why are you using the ign circuit without having the feed fused ? If you had a fuse between the SPST illuminated switch you tried and the Ign wire under the steering wheel ( I guess that is where you got it from ) wouldn't the 1st fuse blew before the 50A under the hood ?
If you are ading more load to this circuit without a relay and seperate fuse panel, you should at least have a smaller fuse before the tap on the Ign wire. Just hit me as a WTF how could it pass the fuse that should be between the switches and the ign circuit ?

 

Edit : One other question, why are you using the ign circuit without having the feed fused ? If you had a fuse between the SPST illuminated switch you tried and the Ign wire under the steering wheel ( I guess that is where you got it from ) wouldn't the 1st fuse blew before the 50A under the hood ?

The wire I tapped into is under the dash but there is really no load on it . It is simply the 12volt signal wire to the VSC which according to Flex-a-Lite is not a load simply a signal to say OK the truck has been turned on it does not pull current. That is what FLex-a-Lite told me. I do not know about this Carlington switch My example was a simple Autozone illuminated rocker switch I used and it did not work. I am glad yours works I also do not have a switch wired for turning my fans to Full on which from reading your posts sounds like you have done my switch is merely to shut the fans off under any condition ie.. grounding terminal #5 on the VSC I think it is if memory serves me) As for the switch being tapped into the ignition wire it blew not becasue of a load but becasue I grounded it out. I wired my switch just like the directins said to and since I do not have the switch anymore I really could not tell you how it was but it was gnd to pole 1 which was the grnd .then the out to the VSC was grnd and then a 12 source in to make the light work and when the switch was thrown it grounded out the 12 source I was trying to use to illuminate the switch. I am gald it works for you and do not want to argue with you about this. I am simply saying that a regular Autozone illuminated rocker switch did not work for me to shut my fans off. Looking at the photo you put a link to I see two white wires so where is the 12 volt source to light up the switch?

Richard

 

Richard D,

I took my indicator for the VSC from the same place, but I have a 5 amp fuse between it and the VSC, so If I have a problem with the aftermarket wiring I don't take out the under hood fuse.
I guess I am too careful, fusing the load that I take off the stock harness... That covers not only overload, but also shorts on the circuit with the 5 amp fuse.
I kind of figured that this was not an overload condition, but all the same the add on should be fused to the correct amp rate of the wiring used.

So problem #1 with your install:
You have a 50 amp fuse protecting the wiring to the VSC. Got to match the amps of the fuse with the amps of the wire. Might want to get that corrected ASAP. Add a $ 2.00 inline use holder with a 5 amp fuse in it between the VSC and the ign circuit. This 5 amp fused branch circuit can also be for illuminating the switch.

If the switch you used from AutoZone is marked as ground is pole 1, that is where the power should have been put. That is what my posts were trying to describe, take a illuminated SPST switch, and wire it BACKWARDS to what the directions say to. The drawing also shows this, looking at the internal diagrams, the single terminal for the indicator lamp is usually what the directions on the package would call ground, when used for the “normal” usage.

So Problem #2 with your install :
If you wired the switch, from AutoZone, per the directions on the package, that is what you did wrong, which caused the problem. The switch needs to be wired BACKWARDS to the directions.
You need to swap power and ground on the marked terminals. This is why I said if it is an LED indicator lamp on the switch, it will not light, the diode stops the current flow in a backwards configuration.

Reading the text on the diagram ( posted in the thread rather then in a link ) of the switch config tells where the power is at on the switch. That is why I marked it white wire in the gray covering ( as in a pair of wires in a common Gray sheath ). The single white wire is the VSC. Match the text in the diagram to the pictures.

Looking at the picture of the switch :
Lower left hand side white wire ( in the Gray sheath / cover ) is terminal 7, which is the +12V source. in the config I used ( backwards wiring of the switch ).
Upper right white wire ( single white wire ) is terminal 3, output of the switch to the VSC, and the other side of the indicator lamp.
Lower right black wire ( in the Gray sheath / cover ) is terminal 2 which is the input for the switch, i.e. when the switch is turned on that is what goes out terminal 3. In this case that is ground ( backwards wiring of the switch ).

The guts of an Illuminated SPST switch work the same no matter who the manufacture of the switch is.
Again this is for only non LED indicator lamp switches.
So if you get one of the little trick toggle switches that have the indicator in the tip of it, it is probably a LED indicator switch, and won’t work for this application ( backwards wiring ).

This is a diagram of the backwards wiring of this switch, but only changing the terminal names, it would apply to all non LED illuminated SPST switches:



Normally the switch when used for driving light :
Terminal 7 ( side 1 of the indicator lamp ) is usually ground.
Terminal 2 ( input side of the switch, when the switch is closed what goes to terminal 3 ) is usually + 12 V DC.
Terminal 3 ( 2nd side of indicator lamp ) is usually the wire that goes to the relay, might be marked as output or switch side, or any other term that means the side that goes to the device that is being powered.

This is what the directions on the package would show for applying power to the output of the switch. Changing the terminal names this is what the package on the illuminated switch from AutoZone might show for correct usage. Which is wrong for correct usage for applying ground to the output of the switch.



If you put ground where the directions on the package tell you to put it, and power where it tells you to put it, yes you will short out the ign circuit.
Backwards is the key word in these directions. That is why I kept referring to DON'T wire it as you would for say driving lights, and DON'T expect the indicator lamp to light if it is a LED lamp.

If you have the package or a description of what the switch looks like I’ll go by AutoZone and get one and try it. I just want to make sure I get the correct one to try.

 

I followed the FAL directions not the rocker switch directions and since I no longer have that swtch I honestly could not tell you what it was other than a illuminated rocker switch. Thanks for the inliune fuse advice I may take you up on that in fact never really thought about it. What color is the wire you tapped into under your dash? I put the 12volt input to the terminal for grnd wire then the 12 volt ouput with a grnd to the VSC and put my power wire where the grnd was supose to be accordeing to the switch directions but like I said when i turned the switch on it grounded out the 12 volts source I had hooked up to the grnd terminal.which was the 50 amp ignition source. Which is why I then purchased the FAL switch and went with it.

Richard

 

SSCULLY and Richard~

I guess what I am looking ofr is a system overide ON switch, in case the automatic system fails for some reason. I'm guessing that the overide will be 100% power on. When I switch it off, I want teh system to go back to its normal automatic temp. activated state. I just want an auxillary control in case somthing happens, or I'm in a pit between runs. How would you configure that circuit? What would you recommend as a switch, and where could I find teh recommended switch.

I know it's a lot to ask, but I am grateful!!!


Thanks,

Matt

 

Richard D,

The color wire for the power, I do believe was a Red with a black stripe on it.

As for the ground I ran a ground wire under the dash, with a grounding bar ( multiple lugs on it ) so I can just take a good known ground from that point, rather then trying to find a ground some where else.

Actually in the FAL directions, there are no switch directions, just the lines about what needs to be passed to the VSC.

I'll take a look to see how many Illuminated SPST switches are at AutoZone, if it is a single one, I get it and try it.

 

There is a wiring diagram for the switch in my FAL instructions. It simply show what wires go where. The under dash wire I tapped is all red no black stripe that i can find.SScully don't waste your time or money goign to Autozone it really does not matter at this ppoint unles your goal is simply to prove me wrong. Then knock yourself out but it will not change the fact of what i did and tried withthe switch did not work for me. even if it does for you it still wont change what happen to me.Personally I really do not give a flying rats As*.

Richard

 

MF150,

The manual system run terminal is to run the fans at 100% speed, regardless of what the VSC is calling for ( i.e. only 60% run speed, no run, etc ).

Once the switch is turned off, the VSC takes back over and operates as normal.

I guess this is a cool down in the pits, or if the temp control section of the VSC takes a powder.

To install it, you need to apply ground to the terminal. Use a regular non illuminated switch, adn hook one side to ground, the other to the VSC terminal ( 6 I think, it is noted above ) for the manual run ( also noted in the directions ).

The illuminated switch, that is what the past few posts are about. I did the same function as the FAL switch part number, with the CarlingtonSwitches illuminated SPST switch, but Richard D had problems with a AutoZone illuminated switch. Don't know why or how I guess.

If you are ordering the FAL kit from Summit, pull up the FAL part number for the switch above, by putting a FLX- in front of it, and Summit would be able to find it for you. I don't know what it would cost, but you could add it to the order that you make for the fan kit.

Myself, I am trying to find a place to mount this Carlington Switch that I have, I'm just going to leave it installed. I might use it some day...

Got so much stuff in there now, I need to move some things around to locate a place for it.

Steve