the saga continues between us! Auto VS. 5-Spd

After doing a little bit of my own research I have concluded that you have been making false statements about stock torque converters and them being controlled via ECU.

WrongdayJ... You ARE wrong! hehe.


Stall speed is determined by the physical design. It can't be controlled by a chip. Yes, you can control lock-up but not stall. Just for the record, the stock torque converter stall speed is about 1,400rpms give or take 100rpms or so.

1,400rpms!!!... Now, tell me how your gonna change that?

I know how, buy slapping down a good $600-900 for a good aftermarket torque converter.


...remember don't be sensitive . Death to the Auto's... Bwuwhahaha!

 

Talley,

I don't blame you for being a bit skeptical.

I didn't really want to believe it either. . .BUT-

The statements I made are not false.

If a torque converter has a fixed stall speed and you raise and lower it with a variable lock-up mechanism (understanding that you can't raise it beyond the fixed mechanincal value).

A mechanically fixed stall speed and a computer controlled lock-up (or rather, partial lock-up depending on the circumstances).

Think about that for a minute, then think about this- A converter will flash beyond it's stall speed given a great enough load and enough torque driving it. The old example of a converter that makes 2500 rpm stall behind a mild small block will make about 4000 stall behind a built big block comes to mind.

What I'm saying is true- just wait and I'll reveal everything.


---J

 

here we go agian

 

Talleywacker:1 - WrongdayJ:0

 

Now this is not what I need...I'm on the verge of getting confused again.

Are you saying that the stall spped can be controlled by the computer, or is it strictly mechanical?

 

Stall speed is determined only by the physical design of the converter and the engine it is mated to.

..Don't worry a good PI 2,600 stall converter would keep you well ahead of WrongdayJ!

 

 

I think there may be a little confusion on this.

The old C5 transmission had a centrifigul lock-up mechanism that would lock the converter once it got going a predetermined speed. That was fine and all, in fact, it proved to help economy greatly over the C4 and C6 designs. Power was another story. . .which is why you hear very little about this transmission. Plus, Ford was unleashing the next generation transmission- the AOD. This design had a predetermined stall speed, and locked the converter by basically connecting and unconnecting the split input shafts. Not a bad idea, but again- power handling wasn't up to par with the C4/C6's.
Now is where things get confusing. The AODE/A4LD/4R70W/4R100W transmissions are all upgraded versions of the original AODE. Lock up is electronically controlled. There is actually a small clutch and pressure plate inside the torque converter. That is one of the reasons that converters for our trucks are so blasted expensive. Wild huh? The converter does have a stall limit. . .roughly 2250-2500 rpm. It is programmed to rarely (if ever) get that high though. The computer locks the converter up based on various factors WAY before then. So what Talley was saying is true- to a point. Is there a mechanical stall limit in the converter. Yes. Is it 1400? No. Is your computer programmed by Ford to make the converter lock-up (simulating the stall speed) around 1400-1800 rpm? Yes.
And now the question you've all been waiting for: Is this parameter adjustable? Yes. Do many tuners/programmers know how to do it? NO. And that is why the mainstream chip folks will tell you that it's not possible to adjust. I can tell you right now (because I can DO IT) that it is possible. . .and it is cool. If it is electronically controlled. . .it can be adjusted to a point. Can I dial up 3500 stall? No. As Talley stated indirectly- there is a mechanical limit. But can I dial up 2200 rpm? Yup. And so can my brother's 2000 S-10 4.3L pick-up. Although it's a slightly different design, the same rules apply about adjustability. If I want to be able to adjust up further than the stock converter allows, then I need that PI converter. But I have yet to run into a 5-speed that made me have to belly-up and buy one. Of course I've never run the Talley-man either. . .and that might change things for me a bit. But until then (hehehe). . . . .

BTW- Talley, your estimation of my trap speed and ET in the quarter mile are a bit off. It's not your fault, though, as I have a few mods I haven't listed yet. . .plus - the formula you use introduces errors when used on automatics or nitrous injected engines. My actual mph was 91.253 (1/2 tank of gas + my plump bootie). My E.T. was 15.428 with a 60' of 2.25 (no traction bars or drag tires yet.) RT was good at .58 - Temp was 89°F- Humidity was 65%. My brothers S-10 went 14.83 @ 95.5 that same night!!! Those Vortec motors are torquey!! If you would like I can scan the timeslips. I probably will anyway because there are bound to be some non-believers.

I wasn't gonna relaese all this info just yet, but I kinda hate being called a liar. I also am so excited about all this that I can't hold it anymore. There is more info, but this posting is long enough as it is.


Later,


J

 

Talleywacker:1 - WrongdayJ:1

 

WrongdayJ:

I suppose you are hiding an awful BIG mod list.... To run that time!

To run that time... In a Automatic drivetrain that has been proven to take up 60-86HP...

... You are pushing 280 - 295BHP.

Ok, maybe you are right... On a 75 shot of nitrous at least!


btw, I will have my FACTS here shortly... And if there is someway that you are right, You better jump on that money making train quick!!!

 

DAMN IT!!!

I just got my chip reburned. If I would have know about this before I would have had them raise the stall(if they knew how).

I wish you spilled the beans a little earlier J

 

Trust me... I've sent out re-inforcements... Where is my Point???

OH... Little does people know that my statement in the first post was made by Pete of Fordchip himself:

 

Quick!!! Someone give me a good run down of what having a higher stall speed does for your truck!

I have a feeling it makes it faster but how!!!

 

yes, it makes it faster!

I can't really give you a definite answer here, but I think it allows your truck to accelerate faster by getting it to the powerband quicker.

 

Talley- What Pete said about lock-up is 100% true and accurate.
It is controllable. The stall speed rating he gave is a bit low, however. Right now I can peg 2000-2200rpm. But alot of variables can effect stall speed. . .which is why it's so hard to put a finger on a concrete number. Two identical converters can yield two different stall figures ON THE SAME CAR. Or maybe the '02 converter is changed from the previous years'. I don't know. My programmer does though. . .I'll ask him later today. I doubt he'll tell me though. He keeps a tight lip on his secrets.

Later,

J