2000 5 spd is junk
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2000 5 spd is junk
I have a 2000 f-150 supercab xlt with a 5spd trans. and a 4.6 motor. This trans is a piece of junk! My first one locked up at 20,000 miles, and grinded between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear till it locked up. Mine locked up while I was doing 65mph down the highway, and I almost wrecked my truck. I now have 45,000 miles on my second trans. and it also grinds between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear. I think this one is getting ready to go soon also. I really wish I would have spent the extra $1100 on an automatic trans. I also have mad problems with my rear end. I have taken it in for leaks 5 times. So if you are thinking about the 5 spd dont spend the extra on an auto.
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From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Sorry to hear about all of the problems
I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems with your 5 speed. Nothing worse than serious truck problems.
I've been fortunate. I bought the truck with 37K on it and I now have 42K. I put Amsoil transmission fluid in at about 41K and I did notice that the shifting became smoother. It certainly helped. But I never had the serious kinds of problems you have experienced.
Hope it gets worked out.
Hunt4Fun
I've been fortunate. I bought the truck with 37K on it and I now have 42K. I put Amsoil transmission fluid in at about 41K and I did notice that the shifting became smoother. It certainly helped. But I never had the serious kinds of problems you have experienced.
Hope it gets worked out.
Hunt4Fun
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Nope not the way you drive it
I know for a fact that the problems people are having with their transmissions are most likely not caused by the drivers. I learned to drive stickshift on a 92 GMC pickup. The throw was longer and the truck had 120,000 miles on it. I drove that truck for quite a while and never once had any sort of complaint from the transmission. Never a grind. Never locked out of gear. That truck now has 150,000 miles on it and the tranny still shifts silky-smooth.
My new ford on the other hand was experiencing grinding the week I had it from the dealer. The throw is shorter, but it feels so notchy compared to the GMC like parts inside don't line up right, or as if you feel a part that's "in the way" while shifting through the gears. They rebuilt it at 9000 and my service manager confirmed, "We've seen a lot of problems with the 5 speeds in the new F-150s."
Now a question for those who experienced a significant improvement after swapping to synthetic fluid. I wonder if the improvement you are feeling is because of the properties of synthetic fluid, or just because there is fresh fluid in the trans??
My new ford on the other hand was experiencing grinding the week I had it from the dealer. The throw is shorter, but it feels so notchy compared to the GMC like parts inside don't line up right, or as if you feel a part that's "in the way" while shifting through the gears. They rebuilt it at 9000 and my service manager confirmed, "We've seen a lot of problems with the 5 speeds in the new F-150s."
Now a question for those who experienced a significant improvement after swapping to synthetic fluid. I wonder if the improvement you are feeling is because of the properties of synthetic fluid, or just because there is fresh fluid in the trans??
Last edited by hades281; Sep 22, 2001 at 11:26 PM.
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From: Oregon
I have to say a lot of the issues is how you drive or lack of shifting experience.
Again, check the fluid in the trans. Check the fluid in the brake reservior. use synthetic fluid in the tranny. Check the tranny for leaks out the back, as this would indicate you have the rubber shift rail bore plugs missing or dried & cracked.
Also it may NOT be the trannies fault. The hydraulic clutch may have a lot of the blame for the problems! Notchy shifting and grinding would indicate the syncros or the clutch. There are downsides to the hydraulic clutches.
Again, check the fluid in the trans. Check the fluid in the brake reservior. use synthetic fluid in the tranny. Check the tranny for leaks out the back, as this would indicate you have the rubber shift rail bore plugs missing or dried & cracked.
Also it may NOT be the trannies fault. The hydraulic clutch may have a lot of the blame for the problems! Notchy shifting and grinding would indicate the syncros or the clutch. There are downsides to the hydraulic clutches.
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From: Oregon
Re: Nope not the way you drive it
Originally posted by hades281
I know for a fact that the problems people are having with their transmissions are most likely not caused by the drivers. I learned to drive stickshift on a 92 GMC pickup.
I know for a fact that the problems people are having with their transmissions are most likely not caused by the drivers. I learned to drive stickshift on a 92 GMC pickup.
HAHA, I learned to drive a stick on my xr80 motorcycle back in 1980. First car was 2 years later in a 308 ferrari.
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From: DeLand, FL
Re: Re: Nope not the way you drive it
Matt90GT
Would have to concur with you on your points. I don't think people realize that although they "think" they are great manual transmission drivers and "have driven manuals for years", they really aren't. I was taught eons ago by my father, which consisted of three "steps" to master: I had to drive with full cup on the dash so as not to spill any over the lip between shifts, I had to learn how to double clutch on a tractor he had on his ranch, and I had to learn and executive CLUTCHLESS shifting (except of course for 1st gear). Needless to say, the teaching was more unenjoyable than enjoyable, but I know how to drive manuals now.
As I said before in another post, it is always wise to HESITATE in neutral for a brief moment when shifting. The synchromesh unit depends upon a limited amount of friction to synchronize the speeds. By hesitating a moment and then shifting into the desired gear, the unit will have time to function. Speed shifting will cause the synchs to wear very quickly from excessive friction (read: if they are prone to early failure, they are gonna fail). Speeds shifting is also damaging to the gears and for that matter, the entire drive train.
Just because someone has driven for umpteen years in a manual and never had a "grinding" doesn't mean anything. They could still be shifting too fast and causing excessive cone wear. Hell, downshifting causes tons of wear, and a lot of people don't try to minimize that...Same thing with clutches. I have not owned a clutch assembly that did not last over 100,000k. I have heard of other getting to 150,000 or 200,000k. Take a poll of manual drivers and you'll get 95% of them saying they are good at it, ask them how long their clutches last, and 80% of them will say 60,000k....Woops...They really aren't that good.
I'm not saying the Ford synchs are the best quality, but heck, if it is prone to failure, I believe proper driving could probably alleviate or postpone the problem until so many years down the road it wouldn't matter...30K here and NO problem, no grinds, no lockouts, no nothing....No Amsoil either, just proper driving from day ONE
Would have to concur with you on your points. I don't think people realize that although they "think" they are great manual transmission drivers and "have driven manuals for years", they really aren't. I was taught eons ago by my father, which consisted of three "steps" to master: I had to drive with full cup on the dash so as not to spill any over the lip between shifts, I had to learn how to double clutch on a tractor he had on his ranch, and I had to learn and executive CLUTCHLESS shifting (except of course for 1st gear). Needless to say, the teaching was more unenjoyable than enjoyable, but I know how to drive manuals now.
As I said before in another post, it is always wise to HESITATE in neutral for a brief moment when shifting. The synchromesh unit depends upon a limited amount of friction to synchronize the speeds. By hesitating a moment and then shifting into the desired gear, the unit will have time to function. Speed shifting will cause the synchs to wear very quickly from excessive friction (read: if they are prone to early failure, they are gonna fail). Speeds shifting is also damaging to the gears and for that matter, the entire drive train.
Just because someone has driven for umpteen years in a manual and never had a "grinding" doesn't mean anything. They could still be shifting too fast and causing excessive cone wear. Hell, downshifting causes tons of wear, and a lot of people don't try to minimize that...Same thing with clutches. I have not owned a clutch assembly that did not last over 100,000k. I have heard of other getting to 150,000 or 200,000k. Take a poll of manual drivers and you'll get 95% of them saying they are good at it, ask them how long their clutches last, and 80% of them will say 60,000k....Woops...They really aren't that good.
I'm not saying the Ford synchs are the best quality, but heck, if it is prone to failure, I believe proper driving could probably alleviate or postpone the problem until so many years down the road it wouldn't matter...30K here and NO problem, no grinds, no lockouts, no nothing....No Amsoil either, just proper driving from day ONE
Last edited by cpadpl; Sep 23, 2001 at 09:17 AM.
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shifting slowly
It is interesting to see how people that have been lucky enough to get a "good" transmission refuse to believe that the problem exists for a lot of other people. This would be like 5.4 owners refusing to believe that some engines may develop piston slap because theirs didn't, etc, etc.
Yeah OK I learned how to drive on a 92 gmc pickup. Ok, woo, you have more experience because you learned how to drive stickshift earler (have to start *sometime* right?) Besides are you saying it took you 21 years to master this?
But the main idea is this: how come each and every shift I make in the 92 is perfect, and my 2000 was grinding a week after I bought it? I always use the clutch and push it down far past the friction point, and my shifts are relatively slow. If I was intending on shifting and tearing up my new truck by driving it like a sportscar, I wouldn't have gotten a truck in the first place, let alone the "fast and furious" v6 model.
Now I will admit that if you just jump in and don't know things like when you shift into neutral the stick will line up with 3 and 4 (then push up/down), and that a diagonal shift is not really facilitated by a long throw, maybe you'll screw up once or twice before you realize "Better not do that again". And if you're doing something with the clutch like letting it out before you've completed your shift, you'll grind then too. But if you know about these things and execute your shifts like you're supposed to, and the thing grinds into 3rd (notice it's usually almost always the 2nd - 3rd upshift?? wonder why) anyway, there just might be a problem with the unit and not with yourself.
My father, and guess what GT - he learned earler than you - drove it when it was new and said, "This thing shifts like crap." He always buys 5 speed trucks (but his preference is Chevrolet).
I hate to admit it but the GM 5 speeds shift a whole lot smoother than even a properly working Mazda unit. Their autos on the other hand.....
Yeah OK I learned how to drive on a 92 gmc pickup. Ok, woo, you have more experience because you learned how to drive stickshift earler (have to start *sometime* right?) Besides are you saying it took you 21 years to master this?
But the main idea is this: how come each and every shift I make in the 92 is perfect, and my 2000 was grinding a week after I bought it? I always use the clutch and push it down far past the friction point, and my shifts are relatively slow. If I was intending on shifting and tearing up my new truck by driving it like a sportscar, I wouldn't have gotten a truck in the first place, let alone the "fast and furious" v6 model.
Now I will admit that if you just jump in and don't know things like when you shift into neutral the stick will line up with 3 and 4 (then push up/down), and that a diagonal shift is not really facilitated by a long throw, maybe you'll screw up once or twice before you realize "Better not do that again". And if you're doing something with the clutch like letting it out before you've completed your shift, you'll grind then too. But if you know about these things and execute your shifts like you're supposed to, and the thing grinds into 3rd (notice it's usually almost always the 2nd - 3rd upshift?? wonder why) anyway, there just might be a problem with the unit and not with yourself.
My father, and guess what GT - he learned earler than you - drove it when it was new and said, "This thing shifts like crap." He always buys 5 speed trucks (but his preference is Chevrolet).
I hate to admit it but the GM 5 speeds shift a whole lot smoother than even a properly working Mazda unit. Their autos on the other hand.....
Last edited by hades281; Sep 23, 2001 at 10:38 AM.
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From: DeLand, FL
Re: shifting slowly
hades281
I definitely don't mean to imply that a problem doesn't exist. I'm just giving you my prior experience with manual transmissions and problems people I am familiar with have had over the course of my lifetime. Indeed, if a legitimate problem exists then it exists.
The jist of my .02 is that just because someone has experience or has been driving a manual for umpteen years, does not mean they are doing it correctly even if they have never had any griding or tranny problems. Assume for a moment that all manual trannies have an average life of 200,000k. If an individual drives with poor technique so that that the tranny will need to be replaced at 150k, but gets rid of the car before that, he will think he's a great manual driver. Now comes along a tranny that might not be of the highest caliber, but isn't the lowest either. That individual drives it, tranny problems start at 50k, and that person thinks "Damn, I'm a great driver, I've been doing this for 25 years, and this transmission is a piece of crap!"
Remember, poor technique does NOT always make itself evident by sounds and broken parts, it just may be excessive wear you cannot see. Because you never hear a grind in another vehicle by no means makes you a good manual driver (and by you I don't mean you personally).
When my father drove my truck he repeatedly grinded between 2nd and 3rd. With the modern high RPM rice burners of today with speed synchs it's hard not to become slack at shifting. I never have any griding problem, because I'm not talking about shifting SLOW between second and third, I'm talking about HESITATING. The shift stick comes out of second into neutral and competely stops before going into third. I even give it a tiny side to side wiggle in neutral (don't know why, just do it).
But like I said, just as you are trying to get us to understand what you are saying I'm trying to get you to understand what I am saying. Years driving a manual does not mean years driving correctly, even if you never hear a squeak. If you say that you understand all that and you drive properly and you have a problem, then you have a problem and I back you. I guess the only solace for you may be that some people with auto trannies have problems too....
Anyway, no hard feelings intended. I know it's a huge downer to spend so much money and love a truck so much and have it not work out the way the want it...
I definitely don't mean to imply that a problem doesn't exist. I'm just giving you my prior experience with manual transmissions and problems people I am familiar with have had over the course of my lifetime. Indeed, if a legitimate problem exists then it exists.
The jist of my .02 is that just because someone has experience or has been driving a manual for umpteen years, does not mean they are doing it correctly even if they have never had any griding or tranny problems. Assume for a moment that all manual trannies have an average life of 200,000k. If an individual drives with poor technique so that that the tranny will need to be replaced at 150k, but gets rid of the car before that, he will think he's a great manual driver. Now comes along a tranny that might not be of the highest caliber, but isn't the lowest either. That individual drives it, tranny problems start at 50k, and that person thinks "Damn, I'm a great driver, I've been doing this for 25 years, and this transmission is a piece of crap!"
Remember, poor technique does NOT always make itself evident by sounds and broken parts, it just may be excessive wear you cannot see. Because you never hear a grind in another vehicle by no means makes you a good manual driver (and by you I don't mean you personally).
When my father drove my truck he repeatedly grinded between 2nd and 3rd. With the modern high RPM rice burners of today with speed synchs it's hard not to become slack at shifting. I never have any griding problem, because I'm not talking about shifting SLOW between second and third, I'm talking about HESITATING. The shift stick comes out of second into neutral and competely stops before going into third. I even give it a tiny side to side wiggle in neutral (don't know why, just do it).
But like I said, just as you are trying to get us to understand what you are saying I'm trying to get you to understand what I am saying. Years driving a manual does not mean years driving correctly, even if you never hear a squeak. If you say that you understand all that and you drive properly and you have a problem, then you have a problem and I back you. I guess the only solace for you may be that some people with auto trannies have problems too....
Anyway, no hard feelings intended. I know it's a huge downer to spend so much money and love a truck so much and have it not work out the way the want it...
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Right!
Cpadpl-
I agree with you 100%. You are correct that the transmission doesn't have to grind to not like what a driver may be doing to it. I didn't mean actually to rule that out and actually the tone of my reply was directed towards Matt90GT who I felt was insinuating that my transmission problems at 1 week of ownership (and the problems others are having) was because my/our experience, timewise, is less than his.
And in no way do I expect even the best truck transmission to shift like a sportscar (or even this Jetta I testdrove. Wow what a 5-speed gearbox for that car). But I must admit that the competition just shifts so much smoother. Ford would have a great combo with a transmission that shifts as smoothly as that in the GMC/Silverado line. And if I am not mistaken I think Dodge uses the same/similar tranny (I forget the manufacturer but it isn't GM) - someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've been on GM boards before and don't ever recall as many complaints with the 5 speed as I see here.
Now to make the 2nd to 3rd shift with less "upshift crunch" or whatever that notchy feeling is called, I too have employed the method of shifting into neutral, letting go, and then pressing directly up into 3rd gear rather than shifting more diagonally and it, with a bit of a pause, does the trick. But in my personal opinion, even for a truck trans (and it's not like this thing is a semi), the crunchiness in the mazda box is a little more than I personally like.
And of course, absolutely no hard feelings taken or intended to you.
Anyway, who makes the superduty 5-speed and 6-speed manual transmissions?
I agree with you 100%. You are correct that the transmission doesn't have to grind to not like what a driver may be doing to it. I didn't mean actually to rule that out and actually the tone of my reply was directed towards Matt90GT who I felt was insinuating that my transmission problems at 1 week of ownership (and the problems others are having) was because my/our experience, timewise, is less than his.
And in no way do I expect even the best truck transmission to shift like a sportscar (or even this Jetta I testdrove. Wow what a 5-speed gearbox for that car). But I must admit that the competition just shifts so much smoother. Ford would have a great combo with a transmission that shifts as smoothly as that in the GMC/Silverado line. And if I am not mistaken I think Dodge uses the same/similar tranny (I forget the manufacturer but it isn't GM) - someone correct me if I'm wrong. I've been on GM boards before and don't ever recall as many complaints with the 5 speed as I see here.
Now to make the 2nd to 3rd shift with less "upshift crunch" or whatever that notchy feeling is called, I too have employed the method of shifting into neutral, letting go, and then pressing directly up into 3rd gear rather than shifting more diagonally and it, with a bit of a pause, does the trick. But in my personal opinion, even for a truck trans (and it's not like this thing is a semi), the crunchiness in the mazda box is a little more than I personally like.
And of course, absolutely no hard feelings taken or intended to you.
Anyway, who makes the superduty 5-speed and 6-speed manual transmissions?
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From: Oregon
Well if you think I was insulting you, it is just a dose of reality. If you have a problem with the tranny under warranty, take it to the dealer and deal with the problem. We are not the dealer online here for you to take your warranty problems to. Take it up with the dealer and get it fixed. Now if the problem is in your driving, I guess you will never know unless someone else rides with you and tells you to your face.
I have driven a lot of stick shifts from Ferraris, Lotus Esprits, Fords, jeeps, mustangs, corvettes, camaros, chevy trucks, alfa romeos and beyond the T5 being notchy in the mustang it shifts fine. With any manual transmission, the better fluid you put in it - read synthetics here - the better it shifts especially when COLD!!!
If you are grinding gears, I would say you have a problem driving a clutch or a problem with the clutch system. Again it is under warranty and take it to the dealer. You will not get it solved by venting here.
Your comments about the chevys, the manuals suck in them as do the clutches! the clutch releases all the way to the top when your foot basically hits the dash. The vertical motion of the shifter is 3x the horizontal motion of it. The reason they shift better is because you have to row the bowtie shifter so far! that is probably why there are aftermarket shifters for the chevy full sizes and not the fords; a greater need for a shorter shift!
So again, take your issues back to the dealer while you can! that is why there is a warranty on a new vehicle!!! Stop whining here and vent to the dealer that can help you out by fixing the tranny or clutch or telling you why you are having problems!
FYI, always push the clutch to the floor! not to where you think it disengages! that could be 100% of your problem right there!!!
I have driven a lot of stick shifts from Ferraris, Lotus Esprits, Fords, jeeps, mustangs, corvettes, camaros, chevy trucks, alfa romeos and beyond the T5 being notchy in the mustang it shifts fine. With any manual transmission, the better fluid you put in it - read synthetics here - the better it shifts especially when COLD!!!
If you are grinding gears, I would say you have a problem driving a clutch or a problem with the clutch system. Again it is under warranty and take it to the dealer. You will not get it solved by venting here.
Your comments about the chevys, the manuals suck in them as do the clutches! the clutch releases all the way to the top when your foot basically hits the dash. The vertical motion of the shifter is 3x the horizontal motion of it. The reason they shift better is because you have to row the bowtie shifter so far! that is probably why there are aftermarket shifters for the chevy full sizes and not the fords; a greater need for a shorter shift!
So again, take your issues back to the dealer while you can! that is why there is a warranty on a new vehicle!!! Stop whining here and vent to the dealer that can help you out by fixing the tranny or clutch or telling you why you are having problems!
FYI, always push the clutch to the floor! not to where you think it disengages! that could be 100% of your problem right there!!!
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Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
IMHO the Mazda tranny is a piece of *****. Say what you want about lack of driving knowledge it still remains that tranny is crap. I don't care if Chev or Dodge is just as bad or worse, I have a Ford. It is my second 5 speed. If the tranny wasn't bad why did Ford improved the tranny "shift feel" on the second one. BS, is is still crap. The clutch cannot taky any load or it slips and the torque limit of the tranny is very close to the maximum of the 4.6. Ford could do a lot better but most of their clients drive an automatic so they don't bother. So much for adding performance mods on a stick.
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
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From: Oregon
JMC it is amazing that we basically have the same trucks -- 4.6, 5sp, 355s and 285 tires. yet my truck is a 97 and yours is a 2000.
I dont have problems with the tranny. It does have amsoil ATF in there, same with the transfer case.
Clutch is still fine. No problems pulling the boat from a ramp or backing it up over the curb into the driveway. I haul 1 ton loads of wood regularly this time of year and do not have problems. I am also the 3rd owner of the truck.
What is the difference? I would say expectations. has anyone blown out a F150 mazda tranny yet? Let me know. I have not heard of it happening. There are better trannys out there, but the thing works fine. Shift it right, expect it is a truck and not a viper or stang that you can speed shift on and you will be happy.
Could ford have done better? That is a silly question as we all know the answer to that. Where is the 6sp from the diesel? very simple solution there.
clutch, well all I can say is driving style. I have seen stockers last 200K and others last 30k. Same with aftermarkets like the CF dual friction. 3 runs down the 1/4 mile in a 300hp stang and others go 100K without issue and drag strip abuse. Again, I think it is driving style there and doing regular maintenance on the hydraulic clutch. Most people do not even know what that litte reservior is for against the firewall and I bet even less flush the clutch system as required.
This is always going to be a mixed emotions bag here. You will find people that never have problems with them and others right from the showroom floor. If you have a warranty, go deal with it at the dealer. You are not going to get it fixed under warranty by venting here. If you are unhappy all together with it, sell it and get an auto or diesel with the 6sp. Or another brand all together. The reason ford makes 95% autos now is because consumers cannot drive stick shifts and they get to many complaints. Just expect the future to be all automatic transmissions at this pace!
I dont have problems with the tranny. It does have amsoil ATF in there, same with the transfer case.
Clutch is still fine. No problems pulling the boat from a ramp or backing it up over the curb into the driveway. I haul 1 ton loads of wood regularly this time of year and do not have problems. I am also the 3rd owner of the truck.
What is the difference? I would say expectations. has anyone blown out a F150 mazda tranny yet? Let me know. I have not heard of it happening. There are better trannys out there, but the thing works fine. Shift it right, expect it is a truck and not a viper or stang that you can speed shift on and you will be happy.
Could ford have done better? That is a silly question as we all know the answer to that. Where is the 6sp from the diesel? very simple solution there.
clutch, well all I can say is driving style. I have seen stockers last 200K and others last 30k. Same with aftermarkets like the CF dual friction. 3 runs down the 1/4 mile in a 300hp stang and others go 100K without issue and drag strip abuse. Again, I think it is driving style there and doing regular maintenance on the hydraulic clutch. Most people do not even know what that litte reservior is for against the firewall and I bet even less flush the clutch system as required.
This is always going to be a mixed emotions bag here. You will find people that never have problems with them and others right from the showroom floor. If you have a warranty, go deal with it at the dealer. You are not going to get it fixed under warranty by venting here. If you are unhappy all together with it, sell it and get an auto or diesel with the 6sp. Or another brand all together. The reason ford makes 95% autos now is because consumers cannot drive stick shifts and they get to many complaints. Just expect the future to be all automatic transmissions at this pace!
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Joined: Dec 1997
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Matt,
Look at my sig. We don't have the same truck. Mine puts out more power than a stock 5.4.
I have had clutches last well over 100,000 miles before having to service them. If your tranny is fine then good for you. Mine and others are not.
I am not going to get into a debate with you over my driving skills or truck maintenance. I will debate with you over my right to "vent" here as you put it. The day Steve lets me know that I have to stop I will. Until then, I will continue to "vent" and if you don't like it you can go jump in the lake.
Sincerely,
Jean Marc Chartier
Look at my sig. We don't have the same truck. Mine puts out more power than a stock 5.4.
I have had clutches last well over 100,000 miles before having to service them. If your tranny is fine then good for you. Mine and others are not.
I am not going to get into a debate with you over my driving skills or truck maintenance. I will debate with you over my right to "vent" here as you put it. The day Steve lets me know that I have to stop I will. Until then, I will continue to "vent" and if you don't like it you can go jump in the lake.
Sincerely,
Jean Marc Chartier