4.10 Installed...by myself.
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From: Houston, Tx.
4.10 Installed...by myself.
Well,
Just finished the gear swap to 4.10 from 3.55 on the 9.75" rearend. I still have to do the front but will rest up a week first. I used Torq-Line gears from US Gears. Very high quality, much nicer machining than the Ford stock gears. Started the break-in today.
I did the install work myself. I wanted to do the work for the experience, and to save on labor costs. I have never even worked on a differential before, except for gear oil change. I have one word of advice for those of you who want to do the work yourself - don't do it unless you budget several days to do it. I have read posts from guys that say thed did the swap in 5 hours. These supermen either work in differential shops or accidently left some parts out...lol!! For a first timer, it will take you at least double that, and tripple that if you have to reshim a few times like I did. Also, it was hot as hell in the garage with 95ºF and 95% humidity.
But in some ways, the install was easier than I imagined it would be. The work itself is mostly just wrenchwork. The hard part is pressing off and back on the pinion bearing unless you go to a machine shop and have them do it. I chose to do the bearing pressing myself since I figured it would take a couple of iterations to determine the correct pinion shims, also planned to work in the evenings and on weekends when all the machine shops are closed. For the pinion bearing removal, I purchased a bearing separator (p/n 15RJ9720X) form JC Whitney. I used it in tandem with my 8" two-jaw puller "modified" to 12". You can't do this job without some kind of bearing puller. For a bearing press, I used my 2 ton floor jack and a makeshift jackstand.
Also, you may save on labor costs, but don't forget about the cost of these tools if you don't have them:
Dial indicator = $30
Dial Micrometer = $30
Bearing separator = $20
inch-lb torque wrench = ??, could not find one, used a stick and a weight.
For the record, it took me two iterations to get the pinion shim correct, and three iterations to get the backlash set correct.
Wish me luck next week on the front gear swap!!
GDG
Just finished the gear swap to 4.10 from 3.55 on the 9.75" rearend. I still have to do the front but will rest up a week first. I used Torq-Line gears from US Gears. Very high quality, much nicer machining than the Ford stock gears. Started the break-in today.
I did the install work myself. I wanted to do the work for the experience, and to save on labor costs. I have never even worked on a differential before, except for gear oil change. I have one word of advice for those of you who want to do the work yourself - don't do it unless you budget several days to do it. I have read posts from guys that say thed did the swap in 5 hours. These supermen either work in differential shops or accidently left some parts out...lol!! For a first timer, it will take you at least double that, and tripple that if you have to reshim a few times like I did. Also, it was hot as hell in the garage with 95ºF and 95% humidity.
But in some ways, the install was easier than I imagined it would be. The work itself is mostly just wrenchwork. The hard part is pressing off and back on the pinion bearing unless you go to a machine shop and have them do it. I chose to do the bearing pressing myself since I figured it would take a couple of iterations to determine the correct pinion shims, also planned to work in the evenings and on weekends when all the machine shops are closed. For the pinion bearing removal, I purchased a bearing separator (p/n 15RJ9720X) form JC Whitney. I used it in tandem with my 8" two-jaw puller "modified" to 12". You can't do this job without some kind of bearing puller. For a bearing press, I used my 2 ton floor jack and a makeshift jackstand.
Also, you may save on labor costs, but don't forget about the cost of these tools if you don't have them:
Dial indicator = $30
Dial Micrometer = $30
Bearing separator = $20
inch-lb torque wrench = ??, could not find one, used a stick and a weight.
For the record, it took me two iterations to get the pinion shim correct, and three iterations to get the backlash set correct.
Wish me luck next week on the front gear swap!!
GDG
Last edited by GoDogGo; Jul 16, 2001 at 10:11 PM.
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From: Durham NC USA
Hows the truck perform with the new gears in so far??
Feels good to do a job like that on your own vehicle sometimes even if it takes awhile
Back in the early 80`s I had a T/A that we worked over and had the rear gears changed to 4:11`s. Luckily I worked in the garage and got parts at cost. Cost me 20.00 and dinner from Burger King as payment to the axle guy to do it one evening when the dealer was open till 9:00pm. The 4:11`s really woke that car up Boy I miss those days of parts at cost and knowing people who specialized in different areas like engines, trans. and suspensions and could get stuff done for meals and 20 dollar bills.
Enjoy the new gears and the same good luck for you on the front when you do them
Feels good to do a job like that on your own vehicle sometimes even if it takes awhile
Back in the early 80`s I had a T/A that we worked over and had the rear gears changed to 4:11`s. Luckily I worked in the garage and got parts at cost. Cost me 20.00 and dinner from Burger King as payment to the axle guy to do it one evening when the dealer was open till 9:00pm. The 4:11`s really woke that car up
Boy I miss those days of parts at cost and knowing people who specialized in different areas like engines, trans. and suspensions and could get stuff done for meals and 20 dollar bills.Enjoy the new gears and the same good luck for you on the front when you do them
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From: Houston, Tx.
Hi 2000FordStyle,
Thanks for reminding me about the most important part! Yeah, I forgot to mention that the gears make it feel quicker now. I can't wait to lean hard on it once they get properly broken in. Also hope my MPG doesn't drop much, but that is a secondary concern now that gas prices are dropping now.
GDG
Thanks for reminding me about the most important part! Yeah, I forgot to mention that the gears make it feel quicker now. I can't wait to lean hard on it once they get properly broken in. Also hope my MPG doesn't drop much, but that is a secondary concern now that gas prices are dropping now.
GDG
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From: Northern Kentucky
You just might be braver than most on here or at least me. I have thought about it but figured time I buy all the tools and find the time to do it the money spent on a expert to do it might be worth it. Glad to hear you did for yourself though. Now that you got the hang of it you wanna do mine for me. I'll throw in the deal you were talkin about (20 bucks a meal of your choice, hell I'll make it 50 and a meal). JK, lol. Good luck on the front.
Let us know how the front goes.
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From: Hawaii
Way to GoDogGo (pun intended).
You're an inspiration to us all. I've never done a gear swap, but with enough tools to start my own machine shop, 14 years working as a welder/fitter/diver, many years spent working on cars and trucks, and a degree in ME I feel I could handle the job. I was at 4Wheel Parts the other day getting my 31" Pro Comp tires mounted on my Jeep and I saw their "expert" installer working on an Expedition. It wasn't pretty. I would NEVER trust my truck to the 19 year old, nose pierced hack working there. From the amount of head-scratching he was doing I didn't expect too much. Turns out he had the wrong the gear set anyway but that probably wasn’t his fault.
The other thing that had me worried is that 4WP has a lifetime warranty on the gears but only a one-year warranty on the labor. You can bet that they're hoping the gears fail after a year because the labor cost is where they make their money.
GoDogGo:
how come you have the 9.75" rear end? I have the 10.25"
You're an inspiration to us all. I've never done a gear swap, but with enough tools to start my own machine shop, 14 years working as a welder/fitter/diver, many years spent working on cars and trucks, and a degree in ME I feel I could handle the job. I was at 4Wheel Parts the other day getting my 31" Pro Comp tires mounted on my Jeep and I saw their "expert" installer working on an Expedition. It wasn't pretty. I would NEVER trust my truck to the 19 year old, nose pierced hack working there. From the amount of head-scratching he was doing I didn't expect too much. Turns out he had the wrong the gear set anyway but that probably wasn’t his fault.
The other thing that had me worried is that 4WP has a lifetime warranty on the gears but only a one-year warranty on the labor. You can bet that they're hoping the gears fail after a year because the labor cost is where they make their money.
GoDogGo:
how come you have the 9.75" rear end? I have the 10.25"
Last edited by gah; Jul 17, 2001 at 02:32 AM.
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From: Kemah, TX
gah,
You shouldn't have the 10.25" rear end unless maybe you have the 7700lb GVWN.
GoDogGo,
You used all the correct machine terms and tools required to do the job. Fourwheeler's June or July issue came with a detailed set of instructions to do the job. You summed it up very conservatively. They said, if after reading the article, if you don't feel comfortable in doing it yourself, it's probably a wise idea not to invest in the project yourself. Horsemanuer! If you have patience and plan everything out just right, you can do anything you want. The EXPERIENCE is worth every penny. I just wish I didn't need my truck so often to do the job you did.
You shouldn't have the 10.25" rear end unless maybe you have the 7700lb GVWN.
GoDogGo,
You used all the correct machine terms and tools required to do the job. Fourwheeler's June or July issue came with a detailed set of instructions to do the job. You summed it up very conservatively. They said, if after reading the article, if you don't feel comfortable in doing it yourself, it's probably a wise idea not to invest in the project yourself. Horsemanuer! If you have patience and plan everything out just right, you can do anything you want. The EXPERIENCE is worth every penny. I just wish I didn't need my truck so often to do the job you did.
Last edited by red bull; Jul 30, 2001 at 02:57 PM.
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You shouldn't have the 10.5" rear end unless maybe you have the 7700lb GVWN.
I'm screwing up again! I thought I'd seen somewhere that the 10.25" had 12 bolts and the 9.75" had 10 bolts on the cover. Anyway, I crawled under my truck to read the tag and I have a 9.75 LS with 12 bolts.
Now I'll try to ask an intelligent question. GoDogGo, did you manage to do the installation with the instructions that came from US Gears or did you need some additional info i.e. factory Ford manual?
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From: Houston, Tx.
Hi guys,
How about this....I can stand on a street corner with a sign that says.....Will do gear swap for food!!!
gah,
The instructions that came with the gears was basic. There were additional instructions with the mini kits (for shims, pinion nuts, etc) that were a better, but mostly contained the hard technical requirements of the set-up and a few suggestions on how to get the right gear pattern, and what the right pattern should look like. But the best source of information came from the internet. I searched on the words "pinion", "installation", and a few others with my favorite search engine and came across 6 or 7 very nice and detailed instructions from guys just like you and me that did their own gear swap and went to the trouble to document in detail what to do, lessons learned, tips and tricks, etc. Without those articles, I don't think I would have had the confidence to do the job.
Even with the research and the articles, I had a few surprises. The first surprise was when I compared the measurements of the stock pinion to the new pinion using the micrometer. All dimensions were exactly the same except for the length from the face of the pinion to the shoulder of the crush sleeve seat. The dimension on the new pinion was taller by 0.268", meaning that the crush sleeve design would not work on the new pinion. At first I thought that the pinion would need machining to get the same dimension - bad idea. But, after making a call to US gears, a very helpful tech told me that Ford had made a design change a while back and that the new pinion required the use of 0.185" of shims, instead of the crush sleeve. Further calls confirmed that this was not a big deal as long as the the proper pinion bearing preload was obtained after torquing the pinion nut to 160 ft-lbs (it took me two tries to get it right - ended up with 0.195" of shims). The second surprise was the pinion nut. The tech alerted me to the fact that Ford also changed the thread pattern on the pinion nut WHICH I HAD NOT NOTICED!! The old pinion nut can not be obtained from Ford as they have it listed as being superceeded by the new nut design. Fortunately, a local differential shop that uses Torq-Line Gears had the correct pinion nut in stock so I was able to get it the same day. This is why I think you see references for the suggested use of Ford Motorsport Gears for first time installers such as myself since Ford Motorsport keeps up with all the last minute design changes. But, the Ford gears are not as high quality as the aftermarket gears - I know this since I compared them side by side.
But red bull is right, if you have half a brain and patience, you can do this on your own - I am living proof of that.
Hope this helps
GDG
How about this....I can stand on a street corner with a sign that says.....Will do gear swap for food!!!
gah,
The instructions that came with the gears was basic. There were additional instructions with the mini kits (for shims, pinion nuts, etc) that were a better, but mostly contained the hard technical requirements of the set-up and a few suggestions on how to get the right gear pattern, and what the right pattern should look like. But the best source of information came from the internet. I searched on the words "pinion", "installation", and a few others with my favorite search engine and came across 6 or 7 very nice and detailed instructions from guys just like you and me that did their own gear swap and went to the trouble to document in detail what to do, lessons learned, tips and tricks, etc. Without those articles, I don't think I would have had the confidence to do the job.
Even with the research and the articles, I had a few surprises. The first surprise was when I compared the measurements of the stock pinion to the new pinion using the micrometer. All dimensions were exactly the same except for the length from the face of the pinion to the shoulder of the crush sleeve seat. The dimension on the new pinion was taller by 0.268", meaning that the crush sleeve design would not work on the new pinion. At first I thought that the pinion would need machining to get the same dimension - bad idea. But, after making a call to US gears, a very helpful tech told me that Ford had made a design change a while back and that the new pinion required the use of 0.185" of shims, instead of the crush sleeve. Further calls confirmed that this was not a big deal as long as the the proper pinion bearing preload was obtained after torquing the pinion nut to 160 ft-lbs (it took me two tries to get it right - ended up with 0.195" of shims). The second surprise was the pinion nut. The tech alerted me to the fact that Ford also changed the thread pattern on the pinion nut WHICH I HAD NOT NOTICED!! The old pinion nut can not be obtained from Ford as they have it listed as being superceeded by the new nut design. Fortunately, a local differential shop that uses Torq-Line Gears had the correct pinion nut in stock so I was able to get it the same day. This is why I think you see references for the suggested use of Ford Motorsport Gears for first time installers such as myself since Ford Motorsport keeps up with all the last minute design changes. But, the Ford gears are not as high quality as the aftermarket gears - I know this since I compared them side by side.
But red bull is right, if you have half a brain and patience, you can do this on your own - I am living proof of that.
Hope this helps
GDG
Last edited by GoDogGo; Jul 17, 2001 at 10:20 PM.
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Sounds great. I am not afraid of tackling this job myself either. I have changed out bearings in differentials before but never changed out the pinion and ring. The hardest thing is setting the preload and backlash like you said. For me, in just replacing bearings, no adjustment was needed but I checked anyway.
Did you change out the bearings or reuse them? How much were the gears, bearings, and shim set? I am looking into installing 4.56 because I will be going with 35" tires shortly.
kev
Did you change out the bearings or reuse them? How much were the gears, bearings, and shim set? I am looking into installing 4.56 because I will be going with 35" tires shortly.
kev
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From: Wisconsin
"I searched on the words "pinion", "installation", and a few others with my favorite search engine and came across 6 or 7 very nice and detailed instructions from guys just like you and me that did their own gear swap and went to the trouble to document in detail what to do, lessons learned, tips and tricks, etc. Without those articles, I don't think I would have had the confidence to do the job. "
Did you happen to book mark these helpful articles so you could share their location with us?
Did you happen to book mark these helpful articles so you could share their location with us?
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From: Houston, Tx.
kev
All the bearings and races were in great shape. I have relatively low mileage and I changed out the oil in the differential some time ago to Amsoil, which in my opinion is one of the best two or three oils that are on the market. Whether it needs it or not, I recommend that ya'll change out the differential fluid to a high quality synthetic, I thinks it helps extend bearing and gear life. But I decided to change out the pinion bearings anyway since those are the hardest of the bearings to replace in the differential and I want them to last a long time. The other bearings are not as bad to change, but they were in really good shape so I did not change them.
sagittarius
Here are some links. I found the first one to be the best. I grabbed two more for you, they are not as good but are representative of what is out there. There are plenty more out there too. Besides, after a while, they all begin to sound the same since the basic set-up requirements for differentials are more or less the same.
http://www.corral.net/tech/drivetrain/gears.html
http://www.usgear.com/ring__pinion_installation.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/gears.html
Hope this helps
GDG
All the bearings and races were in great shape. I have relatively low mileage and I changed out the oil in the differential some time ago to Amsoil, which in my opinion is one of the best two or three oils that are on the market. Whether it needs it or not, I recommend that ya'll change out the differential fluid to a high quality synthetic, I thinks it helps extend bearing and gear life. But I decided to change out the pinion bearings anyway since those are the hardest of the bearings to replace in the differential and I want them to last a long time. The other bearings are not as bad to change, but they were in really good shape so I did not change them.
sagittarius
Here are some links. I found the first one to be the best. I grabbed two more for you, they are not as good but are representative of what is out there. There are plenty more out there too. Besides, after a while, they all begin to sound the same since the basic set-up requirements for differentials are more or less the same.
http://www.corral.net/tech/drivetrain/gears.html
http://www.usgear.com/ring__pinion_installation.htm
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/gears.html
Hope this helps
GDG
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From: Hawaii
Hey GDG:
It's been almost a week with your new gears. So what's your impression now? Have you been able to get a feel for mpg changes? I guess you'll have to make a correction for your odometer right? Won't your odometer be telling you that you've driven more miles than you actually have?
It's been almost a week with your new gears. So what's your impression now? Have you been able to get a feel for mpg changes? I guess you'll have to make a correction for your odometer right? Won't your odometer be telling you that you've driven more miles than you actually have?
