manual vs. automatic
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manual vs. automatic
Alright, I'm about to purchase my first f150- a 4.2L v6, probably anywhere from a 99-02...with about 50k miles on it, and I need help deciding whether to get the manual or automatic transmission. I know that the manual's are cheaper, and supposedly last longer than automatics, but other than that does anyone have any input on pros/cons of either option. I have heard from some people that living in a city like houston, driving a stick shift can get to be a pain because of all the stopping and going...anybody have any experience/advise on that topic especially? Thanks in advance for all suggestions or advice 
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From: Sugar Land, TX
I do not have a standard tranny, but i know some people that do. From what i hear, its you either like it or don't like it. My one buddy has a ranger with a std and he drives in the city, he says its a little bit of a pain, but before too long, you just get used to it. I think once you get used to it it will be fine. However, with an F-150 and a V6, you might like the std tranny over the automatic. Its been my observation that automatics make things slushy, they seem to rob power. Since that truck only has a V6, it would probably perform better with a std tranny without all the slop of an auto.....plus...less parts...complete control over shift....fuel economy....cheaper....less maintenance....etc...etc...
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From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I wouldn't be too quick to say the manual lasts longer than the auto. Check thetow ratings and you'll find a very substantial reduction in the tow capacity of the F150 with a manual vs an auto. May want to find out how it was used before you buy. If it was used for towing, the clutch may be whipped.
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From: Sugar Land, TX
Oh, yes, make sure you know the condition of the tranny like tiger mentioned. However, with your standard, pretty much you have the clutch to get old......but if you get a torn up auto....you are in for a whole different can of worms. If you are buying from a dealer as a used vehicle, there is a good chance you can get them to replace the clutch before you buy it maybe.....???
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Hey guys, thanks for the comments/advice- I really appreciate it. A couple more quick questions...Does anyone know the specific difference in power and/or gas mileage between a truck with a standard vs. an automatic trans? Also, is it cheaper to replace a standard transmission...any approximations on the cost? Thanx again!
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From: the moral high ground
Gas mileage may be a little higher with the Manual but, not so much that you'd notice.
Ford don't want you to tow much with the manual, if you're not towing then powerwise would be the same.
Something to consider is the Auto was a $1000 option so a comparable used Manual truck should be about $600 cheaper than it's Automatic counterpart.
As far as replacing transmissions:
Manual = An arm
Automatic = An arm and a leg thru the nose.
Ford don't want you to tow much with the manual, if you're not towing then powerwise would be the same.
Something to consider is the Auto was a $1000 option so a comparable used Manual truck should be about $600 cheaper than it's Automatic counterpart.
As far as replacing transmissions:
Manual = An arm
Automatic = An arm and a leg thru the nose.
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From: Sugar Land, TX
I am not real sure about the HP question. I cannot find any solid info on the net regarding the differences, probably because of the variability in trannies and engines. Bbut i can speculate....If you have two identical trucks, except one has an auto and one has a std....then the HP of the engine will be exactly the same. However, the HP at the rear wheels will be different due to the difference in power loss thru the drivetrain. Obviously with an automatic, with all the extra stuff that has to be done to transfer the power (torque converter, fluids, pumps), the horsepower should be less than that of a std. How much depends on the vehicle. I think i remember 15-25 HP loss between an auto and std at the wheels. This seems about right, but i cannot say for sure.
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From: Sugar Land, TX
I just found this at http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm
It answers your question
It answers your question
Why does an Automatic take more power than a Manual transmission?
So, what about the 15%-manual and 20% automatic? Well, they are good places to start. Some transmissions are more efficient than others and some rear ends are more efficient than others. In the end, none of this matters as wheel horsepower is what is actually used. You will find the heavier the transmission parts (gears, shafts, etc.) the more power they will take. I have seen engine dyno comparisons to rear wheel and you typically see 15-17% for manual transmissions and 20-25% for automatics. How much does your transmission take? Take the basic values 15 and 20 percent and consider the following.
In an Automatic transmission you will find several factors that determine power requirements.
Weight: a comparable C4 take less power than a C6 - primarily because of the weight difference of the moving parts. A turboglide would take even less and an AOD would require around the same as a C6 (just using weight)
Lockup/non-lockup: Many modern Automatics use a lockup feature in drive and overdrive. This will increase horsepower available at the rear wheels because you don't have any slip in the torque converter. The slip in the torque converter generates heat which is an indicator that power is being lost. Even at over the stall point of a torque converter where you have complete hydraulic lock up you will experience some power loss through the hydraulic coupling process. Having said this I still prefer non-lockup converters as they are easier on the drivetrain (less harsh shifts) and allow the engine to run in the proper RPM power range.
Stall speed: The purpose of installing a high stall torque converter is to allow the engine to spin up to a desired RPM range quickly. Once this stall speed is reached you have a hydraulic lockup and the transmission is locked to the same RPM as the engine. Measuring horsepower below the stall speed of a torque converter is completely meaningless. The slip will give bad readings. Normally you can see the "flash" or hydraulic lockup point on the dyno sheet (I will post an example later). Having said all of this a high speed stall converter will normally take less power than a stock type converter. The reason is a high speed stall converter is typically smaller and lighter - that is the only reason.
Torque converter design: I do not know enough about this to go into detail however some designs are more efficient than others. With torque converters expect to spend between $500-$1000 for a good quality converter - if you try to go cheap here you will only hurt yourself later. In my AOD I run a Lentech 9" 2,800 RPM converter that flashes (hydraulic lockup) at 3,400 RPM (higher torque output will push your flash point further in the RPM band).
Valve Body: Again, I don't know enough to tell you exactly why but some are better than others. Some valve bodies will route hydraulic fluid more efficiently and activate clutch packs more effectively. For my AOD I use a Lentech Strip Terminator valve body and I love it.
With a manual transmission your primary factor in power loss is weight. The heavier the gears, clutch, flywheel, etc. the more power required to turn it.
So, what about the 15%-manual and 20% automatic? Well, they are good places to start. Some transmissions are more efficient than others and some rear ends are more efficient than others. In the end, none of this matters as wheel horsepower is what is actually used. You will find the heavier the transmission parts (gears, shafts, etc.) the more power they will take. I have seen engine dyno comparisons to rear wheel and you typically see 15-17% for manual transmissions and 20-25% for automatics. How much does your transmission take? Take the basic values 15 and 20 percent and consider the following.
In an Automatic transmission you will find several factors that determine power requirements.
Weight: a comparable C4 take less power than a C6 - primarily because of the weight difference of the moving parts. A turboglide would take even less and an AOD would require around the same as a C6 (just using weight)
Lockup/non-lockup: Many modern Automatics use a lockup feature in drive and overdrive. This will increase horsepower available at the rear wheels because you don't have any slip in the torque converter. The slip in the torque converter generates heat which is an indicator that power is being lost. Even at over the stall point of a torque converter where you have complete hydraulic lock up you will experience some power loss through the hydraulic coupling process. Having said this I still prefer non-lockup converters as they are easier on the drivetrain (less harsh shifts) and allow the engine to run in the proper RPM power range.
Stall speed: The purpose of installing a high stall torque converter is to allow the engine to spin up to a desired RPM range quickly. Once this stall speed is reached you have a hydraulic lockup and the transmission is locked to the same RPM as the engine. Measuring horsepower below the stall speed of a torque converter is completely meaningless. The slip will give bad readings. Normally you can see the "flash" or hydraulic lockup point on the dyno sheet (I will post an example later). Having said all of this a high speed stall converter will normally take less power than a stock type converter. The reason is a high speed stall converter is typically smaller and lighter - that is the only reason.
Torque converter design: I do not know enough about this to go into detail however some designs are more efficient than others. With torque converters expect to spend between $500-$1000 for a good quality converter - if you try to go cheap here you will only hurt yourself later. In my AOD I run a Lentech 9" 2,800 RPM converter that flashes (hydraulic lockup) at 3,400 RPM (higher torque output will push your flash point further in the RPM band).
Valve Body: Again, I don't know enough to tell you exactly why but some are better than others. Some valve bodies will route hydraulic fluid more efficiently and activate clutch packs more effectively. For my AOD I use a Lentech Strip Terminator valve body and I love it.
With a manual transmission your primary factor in power loss is weight. The heavier the gears, clutch, flywheel, etc. the more power required to turn it.
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From: Sugar Land, TX
SURE!
Basically, in all of that stuff i posted above he is saying that you see 15-17% LOSS for manual transmissions and 20-25% LOSS for an automatic. They are talking about HP loss i believe. So, you can take your stock engine power for those two trucks in the example i posted and take off 15-17% and get the HP you would have if you got a standard, and then do the same for the automatic only take off 20-25% HP.
So....to answer your question you can figure between the automatic and standard transmission that there will be about a 6-7% DIFFERENCE in HP, with the standard tranny having the higher HP. If you take a look at www.howstuffworks.com and find the article on standard trannies and auto trannies, you will see that it is a wonder how a automatic transmission even works much less works somewhat efficiently. The other point the article makes is that all transmissions and engines are different, thus you cannot really narrow down a percentage of difference, because some automatic transmissions work better than others, so their power loss would be less than say a bigger or heavier automatic transmission.
Hope that answered your question. If you have more just ask.
And if anyone else thinks i am way off base here on what i read.....please speak up!
Basically, in all of that stuff i posted above he is saying that you see 15-17% LOSS for manual transmissions and 20-25% LOSS for an automatic. They are talking about HP loss i believe. So, you can take your stock engine power for those two trucks in the example i posted and take off 15-17% and get the HP you would have if you got a standard, and then do the same for the automatic only take off 20-25% HP.
So....to answer your question you can figure between the automatic and standard transmission that there will be about a 6-7% DIFFERENCE in HP, with the standard tranny having the higher HP. If you take a look at www.howstuffworks.com and find the article on standard trannies and auto trannies, you will see that it is a wonder how a automatic transmission even works much less works somewhat efficiently. The other point the article makes is that all transmissions and engines are different, thus you cannot really narrow down a percentage of difference, because some automatic transmissions work better than others, so their power loss would be less than say a bigger or heavier automatic transmission.
Hope that answered your question. If you have more just ask.
And if anyone else thinks i am way off base here on what i read.....please speak up!
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: NC
I think the 5speed with the 4.2 engine makes for a much nicer package in the F150. Maybe power is close between auto and manual, but stick gives much better control of the power band and it is just more fun to drive.
I drive mine in traffic without problem and use it for heavy towing. This is my first stick after 4 automatic trucks and I wish I'd gotten one sooner. A well maintained manual will last a very long time. Clutches are much cheaper to replace than torque converters w/rebuild. I tow and put very high mileage on my trucks and found the auto trannies to be my biggest repair cost- and never did have much luck getting the automatics properly repaired anyway.
If you buy a stick used, take it for a nice long test drive - some F150s have had problems with 2-3 syncro. This is easy to spot with a notchy or grinding 2-3 shift.
Scott D
I drive mine in traffic without problem and use it for heavy towing. This is my first stick after 4 automatic trucks and I wish I'd gotten one sooner. A well maintained manual will last a very long time. Clutches are much cheaper to replace than torque converters w/rebuild. I tow and put very high mileage on my trucks and found the auto trannies to be my biggest repair cost- and never did have much luck getting the automatics properly repaired anyway.
If you buy a stick used, take it for a nice long test drive - some F150s have had problems with 2-3 syncro. This is easy to spot with a notchy or grinding 2-3 shift.
Scott D
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From: Denver
Hi Ross
I'm on my third F-150 and just got an automatic 2003 in Sept.
My first two were manuals.
My experience shows if you are going to drive a truck in truck
conditions I prefer the manual. If you are going to put a lot of
Hi-way / city miles on the auto is a dream.
I just gave my new auto the test the past two weeks by
dragging a 24' trailer up the mountain to elk camp and
crawling around in 4 wheel for several days then dragging and hauling logs for a couple days.
The truck did OK but you just don't have the control and
instant power you do with the manual tranny. For those conditions I'd like my old truck back. However
driving in traffic out of Denver and on the inter-state the auto was pure pleasure.
It just depends on how you are going to use it
I would also look for a bigger engine than the 4.2
I'm on my third F-150 and just got an automatic 2003 in Sept.
My first two were manuals.
My experience shows if you are going to drive a truck in truck
conditions I prefer the manual. If you are going to put a lot of
Hi-way / city miles on the auto is a dream.
I just gave my new auto the test the past two weeks by
dragging a 24' trailer up the mountain to elk camp and
crawling around in 4 wheel for several days then dragging and hauling logs for a couple days.
The truck did OK but you just don't have the control and
instant power you do with the manual tranny. For those conditions I'd like my old truck back. However
driving in traffic out of Denver and on the inter-state the auto was pure pleasure.
It just depends on how you are going to use it
I would also look for a bigger engine than the 4.2
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From: Western Massachusetts
I prefer a manual transmission, so my opinions will reflect that, but....
As has been said, if your looking for a 4.2 F150 the manual transmission will do a better job of keeping you in the power curve. The auto won't hold a gear just that extra couple seconds so that the next gear will be caught at a good spot in the power band. The 4.2 makes pretty good power, just not as much down low in the rpms like the V8's. The auto transmission (I believe it would me the 4R70W mated to the 4.2) may make the truck feel sluggish, like it has less power than it really does. Especially if you go with a 4X4 and/or supercab.
I drive a '99 E250 for work. It has the 5.4 with an auto (I believe it's the E4OD) and it feels like a slug compaired to my 4.6, 5-speed F150. I've made sure it felt that way by bolting some added power to my F150, but even before that the F150 would always excelerate quicker. I can feel the strong torque of the 5.4 in the van but the tranny shifts before I can really make use of it.
Now having said all of this, I will also say that the manual transmission in the F150, the M5OD is not known for being all that smooth. It is notchy, and as has been said is known to have syncro issues. I haven't yet had syncro issues but I think it would be nice to have a better shifting transmission for these trucks.
Good luck. Either way you go, an F150 is a good choice.
As has been said, if your looking for a 4.2 F150 the manual transmission will do a better job of keeping you in the power curve. The auto won't hold a gear just that extra couple seconds so that the next gear will be caught at a good spot in the power band. The 4.2 makes pretty good power, just not as much down low in the rpms like the V8's. The auto transmission (I believe it would me the 4R70W mated to the 4.2) may make the truck feel sluggish, like it has less power than it really does. Especially if you go with a 4X4 and/or supercab.
I drive a '99 E250 for work. It has the 5.4 with an auto (I believe it's the E4OD) and it feels like a slug compaired to my 4.6, 5-speed F150. I've made sure it felt that way by bolting some added power to my F150, but even before that the F150 would always excelerate quicker. I can feel the strong torque of the 5.4 in the van but the tranny shifts before I can really make use of it.
Now having said all of this, I will also say that the manual transmission in the F150, the M5OD is not known for being all that smooth. It is notchy, and as has been said is known to have syncro issues. I haven't yet had syncro issues but I think it would be nice to have a better shifting transmission for these trucks.
Good luck. Either way you go, an F150 is a good choice.
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From: Los Angeles
I live in Los Angeles (actually in the city not in outlying parts of the county), and my truck is my primary mode of transportation. I drive it through rush hour, through tiny city streets, fast on the freeway and through mountains and offroad. I love the manual tranny overall. However, if you do a lot of city driving, or if you are in rush hour quite often, like 2hrs a day, then an automatic might be better. I drive under these conditions and it is more tiring to drive manual under these conditions. When I get in my '02 Explorer with the automatic, it feels like a day at the spa in comparison. However, it is not as fun. It takes more effort but I'm the kind of guy that loves to drive, and I mean drive, not just get around. I drive for fun. So, a manual is the only way to go for me. You have to ask yourself if that's you. If you just want to get around, then the manual will tire you out too much. If you want to enjoy the journey, then manual is for you.
Also, towing limits are WAY lower with the 5spd.
If you tow quite a bit or if you drive in rush hour regularly, I would say the automatic is better.
However, I love the manual for the control it gives me. Whether it's offroading, blazing through mountain twisties, or moving off the line, my 5spd allows me to get the power to the wheels exactly the way I want, when I want it. Automatics only frustrate me in this department. I always feel like they don't shift the way I want them to in these circumstances.
As far as highway cruising is concerned, it doesn't matter. I don't shift much anyway on a flat open freeway.
Like I said, if you like to DRIVE, get the manual. If you want to go from point A to point B in as much comfort as possible, get an automatic.
Also, towing limits are WAY lower with the 5spd.
If you tow quite a bit or if you drive in rush hour regularly, I would say the automatic is better.
However, I love the manual for the control it gives me. Whether it's offroading, blazing through mountain twisties, or moving off the line, my 5spd allows me to get the power to the wheels exactly the way I want, when I want it. Automatics only frustrate me in this department. I always feel like they don't shift the way I want them to in these circumstances.
As far as highway cruising is concerned, it doesn't matter. I don't shift much anyway on a flat open freeway.
Like I said, if you like to DRIVE, get the manual. If you want to go from point A to point B in as much comfort as possible, get an automatic.