JMC, I beg to differ. There is no drilling required, at least on my truck. There are already holes in the frame to relocate the torsion bar crossmember. Besides, and I know I could get flamed for this, it's a truck. If I wanted a super smooth ride, I wouldn't have bought this truck or any truck. I'm young, my body won't get sore just from a little bit of a rougher ride. That and the bars are already bought, so I'll take my chances and see how it turns out.

 

dnale,

Hey, its your truck. Do with it as you please. I too, cranked my bars up and my truck sits level. I studied all the possibilities and I decided it was not worth the risk to use the 250 bars to gain a little more height. I use my truck "Hard" when off road and I don't feel like walking back. I hope it works for you.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

dnale,

How is the torsion bar install coming along?

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

JMC,
I haven't got the puller yet. I was supposed to be snowmobiling this weekend and the first part of this week so I didn't get the puller. However, with no snow and 50* weather, it got postponed. I figure now I'll wait until spring and it warms up for good now. that or someone volunteers to help me so I can use their garage. Sorry I didn't have more news.

 

dnale,

I know the feeling. I also, don't have a garage. Any major work only gets done when the sun shines.

Regards

JMC

 

Anyone that says you won't gain any lift with different torsion bars is full of it! I have 3/4 ton torsion bars(there is no thing as 1 ton bars) and I did gain approx 2" of lift, and no the bars are not even close to being maxed out. If you crank them to much then you will lose some suspension travel but if you add them and turn them a reasonable amount you won't have any problems. I would recommend watching your CV angles.

 

y2kboty,

Nobody who has a Ford and has cranked the bars disagrees with you. You will get lift. Reread the posts. If you think you will get more lift by using a stiffer bar you are wasting the time and the effort required to install the bar. The front suspension was designed to function within a certain ark. When you crank the bars you are changing that ark. You are in effect moving that ark down, that is what causes the lift. As Matt posted by doing this you are reducing the drop that your suspension allows. If you want even more lift get a longer bolt! As you increase the lift the closer you are coming to having the upper A arm rub on the stopper.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

Yup Boti, you are wrong there bud.

You have what are called bumpstops and shocks that prevent the suspension from traveling farther! Make a model of it and you will see. You are just adjusting the ride height, not lifting the truck in technical terms. Changing bars is like going to stiffer coil springs.

If you want to lift a IFS suspension, you have to drop the front axle by using a cradle frame of some kind.

 

Matt IFS suspension is limited by the bumpstops as you said however, you should be more concerned with binding in the halfshafts rather than hitting the bumpstop. Matt you CAN lift a truck using just the torsion bars WITHOUT sacrificing much travel, in fact nothing noticable. I know I have done it myself and so have alot of fellow Chevy owners. The difference is the more you crank the bars the worse the CV angles. In order to hit the bump stops you would have to be running bars rated at close to 9,000-10,000LBS

JMC you are also incorrect: "If you think you will get more lift by using a stiffer bar you are wasting the time and the effort required to install the bar." I will prove this right now...Say you have torsion bars rated @ 5000LBS, they are cranked all the way, by doing so you have gained 2" of lift. Now take a torsion bar rated @ 7000LBS, cranked half way you will get the same amount of lift...2" (these numbers are not exact but they give you an idea of what I am getting at). Again I know this because I swapped my torsion bars for heavier ones. I gained more height and didn't have to crank them nearly as much.

 

Mat & y2k,

We are going around in circles. Do we all agree stiffer Torsion bars are like stiffer springs, the spring rate is different from the OEM bars? Do we all agree that, at least on the Fords, there are both upper and lower stoppers ? The Upper A arm will rub on the frame if it drops too much and the Lower A arm will hit the rubber bump stop if it goes up too far. Do we all agree that the ARK (total number of degrees weather it be 25°, 35° or 45°) that the A arms swing through will not change even if the T bars are cranked? Do we all agree that the OEM set up centers that ARK so that it leaves a few degrees of space above it and a few degrees of space below it? Do we all agree that stiffer bars will not change that ARK but just make it more difficult for the A arms to move? Do we all agree that cranking the torsion bars will change the plane of that ARK causing it to rotate downwards? Do we all agree that the rotation of this ARK will bring the plane of both A arms down with it? Do we all agree that this will decrease the distance between the upper A arm and the stopper (frame where it hits) and increase the distance between the lower A arm and its stopper? Do we all agree that the designers at Ford were ( or at least should have been) smart enough to design the CV joints to operate properly through the full possible motion of the A arms?

So now that we all agree we can leave it at Crank at your own risk, or To crank or not to crank.

 

i think we all understand the same thing...what i was talkin about in lift was not lift, but stance. So lemme clear that up. The torsion bar addition was not adding lift but changing the arc and therefore giving it a higher stance. Perhaps saying they give you lift was the wrong word for my original post. Changing torsion bars does not give more lift, it merely changes the position of the tire/wheel in the arc curve. In effect, it looks like lift. But again, is not really lift. Ok, i think we all understood that, but just had different defintions of 'lift'.



Sorry for the confusion.

 

boti, you are talking 2 different terms. Go back to page one and read the link I posted. With torsion bars you can adjust the ride height, not lift. Yes you are getting taller, but at the expense of rebound travel and driveline/steering angles.

Any lift kit for the IFS that maintains these angles and lifts properly will drop the axle. you are not doing that by cranking on the bars or swapping them out. Just adjusting ride height and spring rates.

JMC, there is no lower rubber bump stop. The length of the shocks and on the back side of the Lower A arm there is a nub there that will rub on the K member. That is how the lower "bumpstop" is on the IFS F150s.

You could twist the arms to almost straight up and down by grinding down those bumps and disconnecting the shocks. But then your wheels would have some SERIOUS alignment issues! Not to mention the poor steering parts and CV joints.

Rancho made a 2-3" lift for the IFS chevys that comes with a longer top A arm, lowering brackets for the axle, rear blocks and then crank the bars up. The cost is about $350, but you will replace the front steering parts every 6 months:

http://www.bitbytes.com/bsl/truck/rancho2_3.html

So think about your suspension travel, driveline and steering angles before bottoming out the torsion bar adjusters.

 

Matt,
I disagree with rancho's statement
" Also, if you are going to adjust the orginal bars, rather than replace them with heavy duty ones, you could experience ride harshness. This is because the stock bars will be tensioned to ( or almost to ) their limit and therefore they will lack the ability to act as a spring. " They prior to that state " At the rear of the torsion bar is a bolt and lever system that is designed specifically to control the ride height." That is all it does. You are not adding tension you are changing the angle of the lever. You can no more stiffen (increase spring rate) a torsion bar than you can a coil spring. You have to use a larger diameter bar.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

 

Matt I an NOT talking about 2 different things. Matt ride height and lift are the exact same thing...you can't honestly tell me there is a difference

 

I finally got the chevy 3/4 ton torsion bars installed. I am slightly confused though. It was pretty much a direct swap. However, do ford and chevy label their bars opposite? My drivers side (left) would not work with the left chevy. It just wouldn't index right. But lo and behold, the right one does work right. Same holds true with the passenger side. Do ford and chevy view the sides opposite or am I really messed up?

Thanks