Need Little Help From Supercharger Gurus .
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From: hatboro-pa
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged
Stock injectors are 24lb/hr and with the fuel pump, they have no problem maintaining 11.5:1. We control the fuel psi which increases to 65lbs @ WOT. I would not recommend installing such a large injector, as cold starts, transient and decel will be compromised. If you truly have to change the injectors, you need something in the 34-39lb range. The Ford GT injector is a 34lb/hr but there too short to fit without machining the fuel rail mounting boss down. The 39lb cobra injectors would be my next choice. With the larger injector, you can safely make 500rwhp before the pump is maxed out, as long as you decrease the fuel psi.
The MAF is 75mm and we also have a 95mm that we can use, although it does not fit with the same air inlet tube because of the diameter. Were working on something for that, but it will be a bit before we release that as a bolt on addition.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
The MAF is 75mm and we also have a 95mm that we can use, although it does not fit with the same air inlet tube because of the diameter. Were working on something for that, but it will be a bit before we release that as a bolt on addition.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
Last edited by rafa26; Feb 18, 2006 at 04:12 PM.
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged
Stock injectors are 24lb/hr and with the fuel pump, they have no problem maintaining 11.5:1. We control the fuel psi which increases to 65lbs @ WOT. I would not recommend installing such a large injector, as cold starts, transient and decel will be compromised. If you truly have to change the injectors, you need something in the 34-39lb range. The Ford GT injector is a 34lb/hr but there too short to fit without machining the fuel rail mounting boss down. The 39lb cobra injectors would be my next choice. With the larger injector, you can safely make 500rwhp before the pump is maxed out, as long as you decrease the fuel psi.
The MAF is 75mm and we also have a 95mm that we can use, although it does not fit with the same air inlet tube because of the diameter. Were working on something for that, but it will be a bit before we release that as a bolt on addition.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
The MAF is 75mm and we also have a 95mm that we can use, although it does not fit with the same air inlet tube because of the diameter. Were working on something for that, but it will be a bit before we release that as a bolt on addition.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
That is interesting info.
I'm surprised the stock 220lph pump and 24lb injectors can support 500rwhp. Makes me wonder why all my tuners recomend a bigger fuel pump and injectors then what these trucks came with stock. Also why vortech and procharger chose to put in 42# and 48#.
I know the roush non intercooled kits with the stock setup start running lean, specially when warmed up, and they are only making 300rwhp when that happens, around 330 when "cool"
Also how all the factory eaton setups require with dual 190lph pumps and stock 39# Injectors, such as on cobras, require a BAP for 500+rwhp ranges. From what I understand, the whipple setup on cobras are good to about 570rwhp with a factory fuel system?
Is it just the whipple is THAT much more efficiencent then an eaton/centrig? I always knew they were more, but that much?
Will increasing the full pump pressure on a returnless system, which my understanding is to increase the voltage, lessin the life of the pump?
Not trying to bash, just trying to reteach my way of thinking. If y'all would have came out with the whipple a few weeks sooner, I would have one of those on my truck instead of a vortech.
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From: Louisiana
The Whipple isn't more effiecient than a centrifugal blower. Not really about blower effiency in this case anyway as it relates to the fuel systems. Also the 3V F-150's fuel system can only support 500 rwhp with larger injectors...24#'s have to go. Is that 500 rwhp based off of typical fuel pump flow/ hp support charts? Is the voltage regulated to the pump in a different way using a booster? As to why 42# injectors are supplied is because they easily support increase hp in forced induction applications which always require more from fuel system than a naturally aspirated setup. If the 3V trucks are returnless then that might be a reason that smaller injectors are used with increasing the fuel pressure rather than the 2V trucks where you can easily just swap 42# injectors and 90mm MAF from a Lightning and upgrade the pump and get a tune for it all. Supports over 500hp with no driveability issues.
If Whipple had came out with the 5.4 systems 2 years ago I'd probably be running one too. I just wasn't going to keep waiting and waiting and waiting.
If Whipple had came out with the 5.4 systems 2 years ago I'd probably be running one too. I just wasn't going to keep waiting and waiting and waiting.
Last edited by justjames80; Feb 14, 2006 at 02:05 PM.
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From: augusta, GA
I would *NOT* supercharge one of the new 3V trucks without upgrading injectors, MAF, and probably fuel pump also. 24# injectors will not handle the kind of power you guys are talking about.
on a sidenote, if you want to save some money on injectors and the new trucks have the same new connector as the cobras, you can find 39# blue top injectors on ebay pretty reasonably usually. they would definitely handle the power you expect to put out.
on a sidenote, if you want to save some money on injectors and the new trucks have the same new connector as the cobras, you can find 39# blue top injectors on ebay pretty reasonably usually. they would definitely handle the power you expect to put out.
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From: hatboro-pa
Originally Posted by FATHERFORD
That is interesting info.
I'm surprised the stock 220lph pump and 24lb injectors can support 500rwhp. Makes me wonder why all my tuners recomend a bigger fuel pump and injectors then what these trucks came with stock. Also why vortech and procharger chose to put in 42# and 48#.
I know the roush non intercooled kits with the stock setup start running lean, specially when warmed up, and they are only making 300rwhp when that happens, around 330 when "cool"
Also how all the factory eaton setups require with dual 190lph pumps and stock 39# Injectors, such as on cobras, require a BAP for 500+rwhp ranges. From what I understand, the whipple setup on cobras are good to about 570rwhp with a factory fuel system?
Is it just the whipple is THAT much more efficiencent then an eaton/centrig? I always knew they were more, but that much?
Will increasing the full pump pressure on a returnless system, which my understanding is to increase the voltage, lessin the life of the pump?
Not trying to bash, just trying to reteach my way of thinking. If y'all would have came out with the whipple a few weeks sooner, I would have one of those on my truck instead of a vortech.
I'm surprised the stock 220lph pump and 24lb injectors can support 500rwhp. Makes me wonder why all my tuners recomend a bigger fuel pump and injectors then what these trucks came with stock. Also why vortech and procharger chose to put in 42# and 48#.
I know the roush non intercooled kits with the stock setup start running lean, specially when warmed up, and they are only making 300rwhp when that happens, around 330 when "cool"
Also how all the factory eaton setups require with dual 190lph pumps and stock 39# Injectors, such as on cobras, require a BAP for 500+rwhp ranges. From what I understand, the whipple setup on cobras are good to about 570rwhp with a factory fuel system?
Is it just the whipple is THAT much more efficiencent then an eaton/centrig? I always knew they were more, but that much?
Will increasing the full pump pressure on a returnless system, which my understanding is to increase the voltage, lessin the life of the pump?
Not trying to bash, just trying to reteach my way of thinking. If y'all would have came out with the whipple a few weeks sooner, I would have one of those on my truck instead of a vortech.
"The 39lb cobra injectors would be my next choice. With the larger injector, you can safely make 500rwhp before the pump is maxed out, as long as you decrease the fuel psi."
Last edited by rafa26; Feb 18, 2006 at 04:12 PM.
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From: hatboro-pa
Originally Posted by BullittMcQueen
I would *NOT* supercharge one of the new 3V trucks without upgrading injectors, MAF, and probably fuel pump also. 24# injectors will not handle the kind of power you guys are talking about.
on a sidenote, if you want to save some money on injectors and the new trucks have the same new connector as the cobras, you can find 39# blue top injectors on ebay pretty reasonably usually. they would definitely handle the power you expect to put out.
on a sidenote, if you want to save some money on injectors and the new trucks have the same new connector as the cobras, you can find 39# blue top injectors on ebay pretty reasonably usually. they would definitely handle the power you expect to put out.
Last edited by rafa26; Feb 18, 2006 at 04:12 PM.
Originally Posted by rafa26
You misunderstood him, he said that it can support 500rwhp with "LARGER INJECTORS AND STOCK PUMP, IN THAT CASE THE 39LBS COBRA INJECTORS AND NOT THE 24LBS STOCK ONES."
"The 39lb cobra injectors would be my next choice. With the larger injector, you can safely make 500rwhp before the pump is maxed out, as long as you decrease the fuel psi."
"The 39lb cobra injectors would be my next choice. With the larger injector, you can safely make 500rwhp before the pump is maxed out, as long as you decrease the fuel psi."
Maybe next time I should read better, lol.
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From: Louisiana
New trucks use the Bosch EV6 style injectors. Ford's been using that style since the 1999 Cobras and later in the V6 Mustangs. Older style trucks use the EV1 type injectors. I know on the Mustangs, either style can be used as long as the wiring adapters are used. Don't know if it works that way for the trucks.
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From: hatboro-pa
Originally Posted by justjames80
New trucks use the Bosch EV6 style injectors. Ford's been using that style since the 1999 Cobras and later in the V6 Mustangs. Older style trucks use the EV1 type injectors. I know on the Mustangs, either style can be used as long as the wiring adapters are used. Don't know if it works that way for the trucks.
Last edited by rafa26; Feb 18, 2006 at 04:13 PM.
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From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by justjames80
The Whipple isn't more effiecient than a centrifugal blower. Not really about blower effiency in this case anyway as it relates to the fuel systems. Also the 3V F-150's fuel system can only support 500 rwhp with larger injectors...24#'s have to go. Is that 500 rwhp based off of typical fuel pump flow/ hp support charts? Is the voltage regulated to the pump in a different way using a booster? As to why 42# injectors are supplied is because they easily support increase hp in forced induction applications which always require more from fuel system than a naturally aspirated setup. If the 3V trucks are returnless then that might be a reason that smaller injectors are used with increasing the fuel pressure rather than the 2V trucks where you can easily just swap 42# injectors and 90mm MAF from a Lightning and upgrade the pump and get a tune for it all. Supports over 500hp with no driveability issues.
If Whipple had came out with the 5.4 systems 2 years ago I'd probably be running one too. I just wasn't going to keep waiting and waiting and waiting.
If Whipple had came out with the 5.4 systems 2 years ago I'd probably be running one too. I just wasn't going to keep waiting and waiting and waiting.
Larger injectors typically have trouble with idle, cold start and decel emissions because the larger injectors are not in the ideal efficiency range. You also have to typically run lower fuel PSI otherwise the injectors flow too much at low speeds, which also decreases the efficiency.
If you want to get to 500rwhp, the 39lb Cobra injectors will be a direct replacement, although this has to be accomadated for in the calibration, with this, you can run a lower fuel PSI such as 45-50lbs and you'll have enough capacity for the increased HP. After that, you can use the 07 Cobra pump, but this is not readily available just yet. 60lb injectors are far too big for 10lbs on a stock 5.4L 24V. To note, when we mention cold start problems, decel, etc., we are holding the system to higher emission standard than what a dyno shop or performance tuner would. You may get more misfires and therefore they have to modify the misfire code check, etc. It doesn't mean it won't actually run, but it could be hard on the cats because you'll have a varation of rich/lean conditions during certain periods when the injectors are not operating in the proper range.
Also to note, because one mfg. sales 42lb injectors or larger pumps, or whatever with their system does not mean thats what HAS to be done. Some may be limited to fuel pump control, such as voltage or psi control, some may not have the same difficulty with airflow or manifold design, etc. When you purchase one of our systems, your purchasing a "package" that is been tried and tested to a certain boost and power level on stock engines. Customization of these packages are pretty simple and stated in the instruction manual. After 8psi, we recommend running the Autolite HT0 plug, stock gap. After 10psi, we recommend changing the gap to .032". After 8psi on a stock engine, we recommend changing injectors and having a custom dyno tune done by a qualified tuner. It goes on and on and depends on the changes you have.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
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From: hatboro-pa
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged
Our system comes with a 75mm MAF. As you said, the stock pump is good for more HP if you lower the PSI, we choose, for emissions and drive-ability to stick with the 24lb/hr injector and increase pressure via the pw modulated fuel pump. Peak PSI does reach 65psi and therefore, the system can maintain a air fuel ratio of 11.5:1 @ WOT up to 20 deg. F. We've run thousands and thousands of hours of testing with this setup, were partnered with Ford Racing in the system and they've done their own testing including their envoirmental lab and climate control lab.
Larger injectors typically have trouble with idle, cold start and decel emissions because the larger injectors are not in the ideal efficiency range. You also have to typically run lower fuel PSI otherwise the injectors flow too much at low speeds, which also decreases the efficiency.
If you want to get to 500rwhp, the 39lb Cobra injectors will be a direct replacement, although this has to be accomadated for in the calibration, with this, you can run a lower fuel PSI such as 45-50lbs and you'll have enough capacity for the increased HP. After that, you can use the 07 Cobra pump, but this is not readily available just yet. 60lb injectors are far too big for 10lbs on a stock 5.4L 24V. To note, when we mention cold start problems, decel, etc., we are holding the system to higher emission standard than what a dyno shop or performance tuner would. You may get more misfires and therefore they have to modify the misfire code check, etc. It doesn't mean it won't actually run, but it could be hard on the cats because you'll have a varation of rich/lean conditions during certain periods when the injectors are not operating in the proper range.
Also to note, because one mfg. sales 42lb injectors or larger pumps, or whatever with their system does not mean thats what HAS to be done. Some may be limited to fuel pump control, such as voltage or psi control, some may not have the same difficulty with airflow or manifold design, etc. When you purchase one of our systems, your purchasing a "package" that is been tried and tested to a certain boost and power level on stock engines. Customization of these packages are pretty simple and stated in the instruction manual. After 8psi, we recommend running the Autolite HT0 plug, stock gap. After 10psi, we recommend changing the gap to .032". After 8psi on a stock engine, we recommend changing injectors and having a custom dyno tune done by a qualified tuner. It goes on and on and depends on the changes you have.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
Larger injectors typically have trouble with idle, cold start and decel emissions because the larger injectors are not in the ideal efficiency range. You also have to typically run lower fuel PSI otherwise the injectors flow too much at low speeds, which also decreases the efficiency.
If you want to get to 500rwhp, the 39lb Cobra injectors will be a direct replacement, although this has to be accomadated for in the calibration, with this, you can run a lower fuel PSI such as 45-50lbs and you'll have enough capacity for the increased HP. After that, you can use the 07 Cobra pump, but this is not readily available just yet. 60lb injectors are far too big for 10lbs on a stock 5.4L 24V. To note, when we mention cold start problems, decel, etc., we are holding the system to higher emission standard than what a dyno shop or performance tuner would. You may get more misfires and therefore they have to modify the misfire code check, etc. It doesn't mean it won't actually run, but it could be hard on the cats because you'll have a varation of rich/lean conditions during certain periods when the injectors are not operating in the proper range.
Also to note, because one mfg. sales 42lb injectors or larger pumps, or whatever with their system does not mean thats what HAS to be done. Some may be limited to fuel pump control, such as voltage or psi control, some may not have the same difficulty with airflow or manifold design, etc. When you purchase one of our systems, your purchasing a "package" that is been tried and tested to a certain boost and power level on stock engines. Customization of these packages are pretty simple and stated in the instruction manual. After 8psi, we recommend running the Autolite HT0 plug, stock gap. After 10psi, we recommend changing the gap to .032". After 8psi on a stock engine, we recommend changing injectors and having a custom dyno tune done by a qualified tuner. It goes on and on and depends on the changes you have.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
Last edited by rafa26; Feb 18, 2006 at 04:13 PM.
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From: Atlanta, GA
You can get a conversion harness for the EV6 fron a EV1 injector. Sean Hyland Motorsports sells them, I think they were $15 each. I tried to get Ford to sell me some, but they said I'd have to order a 99 up cobra fuel injection harness that was, among other things expensive and unavailable.
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From: South Mills North Carolina
Originally Posted by Whipple Charged
Our system comes with a 75mm MAF. As you said, the stock pump is good for more HP if you lower the PSI, we choose, for emissions and drive-ability to stick with the 24lb/hr injector and increase pressure via the pw modulated fuel pump. Peak PSI does reach 65psi and therefore, the system can maintain a air fuel ratio of 11.5:1 @ WOT up to 20 deg. F. We've run thousands and thousands of hours of testing with this setup, were partnered with Ford Racing in the system and they've done their own testing including their envoirmental lab and climate control lab.
Larger injectors typically have trouble with idle, cold start and decel emissions because the larger injectors are not in the ideal efficiency range. You also have to typically run lower fuel PSI otherwise the injectors flow too much at low speeds, which also decreases the efficiency.
If you want to get to 500rwhp, the 39lb Cobra injectors will be a direct replacement, although this has to be accomadated for in the calibration, with this, you can run a lower fuel PSI such as 45-50lbs and you'll have enough capacity for the increased HP. After that, you can use the 07 Cobra pump, but this is not readily available just yet. 60lb injectors are far too big for 10lbs on a stock 5.4L 24V. To note, when we mention cold start problems, decel, etc., we are holding the system to higher emission standard than what a dyno shop or performance tuner would. You may get more misfires and therefore they have to modify the misfire code check, etc. It doesn't mean it won't actually run, but it could be hard on the cats because you'll have a varation of rich/lean conditions during certain periods when the injectors are not operating in the proper range.
Also to note, because one mfg. sales 42lb injectors or larger pumps, or whatever with their system does not mean thats what HAS to be done. Some may be limited to fuel pump control, such as voltage or psi control, some may not have the same difficulty with airflow or manifold design, etc. When you purchase one of our systems, your purchasing a "package" that is been tried and tested to a certain boost and power level on stock engines. Customization of these packages are pretty simple and stated in the instruction manual. After 8psi, we recommend running the Autolite HT0 plug, stock gap. After 10psi, we recommend changing the gap to .032". After 8psi on a stock engine, we recommend changing injectors and having a custom dyno tune done by a qualified tuner. It goes on and on and depends on the changes you have.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
Larger injectors typically have trouble with idle, cold start and decel emissions because the larger injectors are not in the ideal efficiency range. You also have to typically run lower fuel PSI otherwise the injectors flow too much at low speeds, which also decreases the efficiency.
If you want to get to 500rwhp, the 39lb Cobra injectors will be a direct replacement, although this has to be accomadated for in the calibration, with this, you can run a lower fuel PSI such as 45-50lbs and you'll have enough capacity for the increased HP. After that, you can use the 07 Cobra pump, but this is not readily available just yet. 60lb injectors are far too big for 10lbs on a stock 5.4L 24V. To note, when we mention cold start problems, decel, etc., we are holding the system to higher emission standard than what a dyno shop or performance tuner would. You may get more misfires and therefore they have to modify the misfire code check, etc. It doesn't mean it won't actually run, but it could be hard on the cats because you'll have a varation of rich/lean conditions during certain periods when the injectors are not operating in the proper range.
Also to note, because one mfg. sales 42lb injectors or larger pumps, or whatever with their system does not mean thats what HAS to be done. Some may be limited to fuel pump control, such as voltage or psi control, some may not have the same difficulty with airflow or manifold design, etc. When you purchase one of our systems, your purchasing a "package" that is been tried and tested to a certain boost and power level on stock engines. Customization of these packages are pretty simple and stated in the instruction manual. After 8psi, we recommend running the Autolite HT0 plug, stock gap. After 10psi, we recommend changing the gap to .032". After 8psi on a stock engine, we recommend changing injectors and having a custom dyno tune done by a qualified tuner. It goes on and on and depends on the changes you have.
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers
Dustin, Read my post, whipple on the way. I am ready to go as soon as the computer gets back home. I'm picky but pleased with the design etc. Get that puter on back out to Carolina so that I can post the performance with the stock injectors!!
BillAnd yes, it is a butt pain to have to do that +m what if I want to change my shifts like I could with the SCT?
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From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by rafa26
Dustin, what is the reason that Ford Racing did not deliver any of the Programmers promissed for the 5.4 3 valve engines ? Too many customers are very upset having to ship their computers to you to be re-programmed. Did Whipple finish the partnership with Ford Racing ? I know a lot of people intersted on your kit and i know that your kit it's the best one available on the market today, but first was the long,long wait and now this computer thing...
We are still very much partners with FRPP and have many new co-branded products coming out. We understand it might be a problem for some to send the PCM, but we are trying to get them in and out on the same day, with overnight shipping back. Hopefully that helps.
Our wait was the lack of superchargers, since Lysholm only sent us approx. 250 compressors in 2005, that left us severly out of inventory. Now, with a better compressor, the systems are that much better!
Thanks,
Dustin
Whipple Superchargers