KB or Whipple
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 283
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From: Western New York
Now I remember you, you had problems with Whipple because they were supposed to provide and intercooler and didn't - great company huh?
KB kit came complete - no problems. I did the upgrades increase performance above 8 PSI boost. That was 45,000 miles ago.
KB kit came complete - no problems. I did the upgrades increase performance above 8 PSI boost. That was 45,000 miles ago.
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Athens,Texas
Your memory must be bad. It wasn't me that had any problem with the intercooler. Whipple states on their website what the Whipple for the V-10 comes with. Thats why I ordered the Kennedy Water Injection Kit at the same time I ordered the Whipple. I think you should check out other websites to see all the problems guys with V-10s have had with the Kennebell. Maybe they have no problems with the 5.4s, I only researched the V-10s.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
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From: Oklahoma
"MAKE BOOST NOT WAR FROM THIS DAY FORTH"
from the Iron Horse Chronicles
....or was that, Boost is War. Can't remember, but I do know that, you BOTH are luckier than most, for you BOTH have TWINS! Yeah...twins
from the Iron Horse Chronicles
....or was that, Boost is War. Can't remember, but I do know that, you BOTH are luckier than most, for you BOTH have TWINS! Yeah...twins
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
whipple has no 5.4 or 4.6 kit available.
if you want a twinscrew or a roots new, then kennebell is the only game in town, or if you have the new 3v, the roush kit is available.
no matter how honest a dealer is saling a product, i alway stop to realize he is saling a product and that his advice should be considered , but i should confirm the information, thats just common sense.
kenne bell has brought a product to market and servived to sale it year after year, magna, allen, works havent and the holley kit is not even considered. the whipple is a no show in the 5.4 market.
i have a vortech, i got a good buy on it, if i was needing more pulling power i would not consider a centrifugal again, i dont care if its intercooled or not, the power gains below 3500 rpm just arent there.
they all have there problem, just visit mustang sites, were there are a lot more applications and you will see problem with all of them.
if you want a twinscrew or a roots new, then kennebell is the only game in town, or if you have the new 3v, the roush kit is available.
no matter how honest a dealer is saling a product, i alway stop to realize he is saling a product and that his advice should be considered , but i should confirm the information, thats just common sense.
kenne bell has brought a product to market and servived to sale it year after year, magna, allen, works havent and the holley kit is not even considered. the whipple is a no show in the 5.4 market.
i have a vortech, i got a good buy on it, if i was needing more pulling power i would not consider a centrifugal again, i dont care if its intercooled or not, the power gains below 3500 rpm just arent there.
they all have there problem, just visit mustang sites, were there are a lot more applications and you will see problem with all of them.
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Athens,Texas
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
The key word in my post is "available"
Call Crash and see if you can get one shipped today, tommorrow or anytime. They have promised and had that advertising for 1.5 years now. epa testing, working on other systems (the f150 is the #1 saling vehicle, you would think it had top priority) computer tunning, mfg delays...take your pick
Just goes to show you,dont believe everything you hear or see.
Call Crash and see if you can get one shipped today, tommorrow or anytime. They have promised and had that advertising for 1.5 years now. epa testing, working on other systems (the f150 is the #1 saling vehicle, you would think it had top priority) computer tunning, mfg delays...take your pick
Just goes to show you,dont believe everything you hear or see.
Last edited by BROTHERDAVE; Jun 10, 2005 at 10:31 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,066
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From: Delcambre, La
That was Titus and you can do that when you have enough money to throw at a project.... That was also a 3 Valve 5.4. But again throw enough money at it and you would have it too before anyone else did!
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 4
From: Friendswood Texas
my kenne bell locked up last nite....with @ 10,000mi. on it. i have no issues with the power....i also purchased it nib from an individual . kb warr. are not transferable
'02 Harley #2914 ,JMS tuning,JLP stage 2 longblock, KB 17 psi , 23 psi race tune , PRO TORQUE 2600 convertor , etc.
when buying used you have no idea of conditions and maitenace the unit received before you got it (or how many mile it really has on it). hopefully you safed enough in buyng used so that you can have it rebuilt and still be ahead of a new unit. Is Kenne Bell ok with 23 psi or this out of the range that is recommended?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
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From: Oklahoma
Here is a post in the Lightning section, by Jim Bell himself, concerning this issue. The entire thread can be found herehttps://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191181&page=4&pp=15
We would like the opportunity to post a response. If the moderators feel it is advertising and want to remove it, so be it, but that is not our intent. We merely want to show our views on the Lightning supercharger failures. This post will be in two parts - because Jim Bell has a lot to say!
Part I - LIGHTNING SUPERCHARGER HISTORY
How some aftermarket "Cool Air Kits" can damage your supercharger and engine.
We have a saying at Kenne Bell, "It's not the problems that matter. Everyone has some. It's what you do about them that is really important."
Here's an update on our Lightning supercharger problems. As far as I know, Kenne Bell has talked to everyone with a problem, but there appears to be a lack of information on the web, so here goes. First of all, I know exactly how many Kenne Bell Lightning superchargers have failed and I know why. I personally inspect every one of them. And we have nothing to hide, nor do we try to keep information from our existing or future customers. Just call, FAX or E-mail us. However, a remote post may not come to our attention.
Kenne Bell now has thousands of perfectly happy Twin Screw customers with a very small percentage of failures. We sell a lot of superchargers. Of course there has been some failures, but all superchargers have been warrantied - except for those that were run without oil, overfilled or ingested a throttle body screw. Even then, we sell the parts or new supercharger at our cost as it isn't our policy to profit on a customer oversight or misfortune. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a bearing, seal, drive rotor or drive component failure on our Lightning supercharger. 1-1/2 years ago there were a few inlet plate sealing problems where we used too little sealant. That has been long since rectified. One other minor issue was the slight clatter at idle which is caused by a cam or slightly rough idling engine. It's not a problem with a smooth running engine, but we have made a change to tighten up the clearance with a new "green" coupler which has been in use for about a year (see "Supercharger Gear Noise" http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...GearNoise.pdf). A quick check is to slightly increase the engine rpm. If the noise goes away, it's a rough idling engine. Now, I'm sure there is someone who may disagree and feels his supercharger failed because of another reason, but that's the reason we're doing this post - to inform and provide good general information that can hopefully help everyone.
Kenne Bell began selling the Lightning supercharger in late '02 after some serious track testing and abuse on Johnny Lightning's truck and our dyno. Somewhere in the original production, there was an issue with supercharger case distortion from over torquing when installing the kit. We solved the problem with an o-ring case and other changes. All customers who had problems were taken care of. Some time later, another problem surfaced when our customers started really turning up the boost AND installing those ridiculous aftermarket "hot air" underhood replacement filter systems - the ones falsely and wrongly advertised as "cool air kits. There are many who profit from these things, but until someone can show me hot air is better than cold air, I'll stay with my opinion. " We experienced some more rotor to case contact. We offer a detailed explanation of the "hot air" kit problem on our website( see WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/g...tAirWARNING.pdf) and now send out caution flyers with all new kits and repairs. With this condition, the rotors expand, contact the case, become noisy and/or even seize. This occurs almost always on the discharge side of our supercharger where the rotors are hottest. Example: 16 psi of boost may see 260 deg discharge temp with 100 deg inlet temp. But raise the inlet temp to 160 deg and the outlet temp is 320 deg and the rotors expand proportionally. The reason the rotors touch first on the discharge side is that is where the air is the hottest. Remember, the air is being progressively heated as it is compressed and travels through the rotor inlet to outlet.
...end Part I.
We would like the opportunity to post a response. If the moderators feel it is advertising and want to remove it, so be it, but that is not our intent. We merely want to show our views on the Lightning supercharger failures. This post will be in two parts - because Jim Bell has a lot to say!
Part I - LIGHTNING SUPERCHARGER HISTORY
How some aftermarket "Cool Air Kits" can damage your supercharger and engine.
We have a saying at Kenne Bell, "It's not the problems that matter. Everyone has some. It's what you do about them that is really important."
Here's an update on our Lightning supercharger problems. As far as I know, Kenne Bell has talked to everyone with a problem, but there appears to be a lack of information on the web, so here goes. First of all, I know exactly how many Kenne Bell Lightning superchargers have failed and I know why. I personally inspect every one of them. And we have nothing to hide, nor do we try to keep information from our existing or future customers. Just call, FAX or E-mail us. However, a remote post may not come to our attention.
Kenne Bell now has thousands of perfectly happy Twin Screw customers with a very small percentage of failures. We sell a lot of superchargers. Of course there has been some failures, but all superchargers have been warrantied - except for those that were run without oil, overfilled or ingested a throttle body screw. Even then, we sell the parts or new supercharger at our cost as it isn't our policy to profit on a customer oversight or misfortune. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a bearing, seal, drive rotor or drive component failure on our Lightning supercharger. 1-1/2 years ago there were a few inlet plate sealing problems where we used too little sealant. That has been long since rectified. One other minor issue was the slight clatter at idle which is caused by a cam or slightly rough idling engine. It's not a problem with a smooth running engine, but we have made a change to tighten up the clearance with a new "green" coupler which has been in use for about a year (see "Supercharger Gear Noise" http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...GearNoise.pdf). A quick check is to slightly increase the engine rpm. If the noise goes away, it's a rough idling engine. Now, I'm sure there is someone who may disagree and feels his supercharger failed because of another reason, but that's the reason we're doing this post - to inform and provide good general information that can hopefully help everyone.
Kenne Bell began selling the Lightning supercharger in late '02 after some serious track testing and abuse on Johnny Lightning's truck and our dyno. Somewhere in the original production, there was an issue with supercharger case distortion from over torquing when installing the kit. We solved the problem with an o-ring case and other changes. All customers who had problems were taken care of. Some time later, another problem surfaced when our customers started really turning up the boost AND installing those ridiculous aftermarket "hot air" underhood replacement filter systems - the ones falsely and wrongly advertised as "cool air kits. There are many who profit from these things, but until someone can show me hot air is better than cold air, I'll stay with my opinion. " We experienced some more rotor to case contact. We offer a detailed explanation of the "hot air" kit problem on our website( see WARNING: "Hot Air" Underhood Inlet Kits http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/g...tAirWARNING.pdf) and now send out caution flyers with all new kits and repairs. With this condition, the rotors expand, contact the case, become noisy and/or even seize. This occurs almost always on the discharge side of our supercharger where the rotors are hottest. Example: 16 psi of boost may see 260 deg discharge temp with 100 deg inlet temp. But raise the inlet temp to 160 deg and the outlet temp is 320 deg and the rotors expand proportionally. The reason the rotors touch first on the discharge side is that is where the air is the hottest. Remember, the air is being progressively heated as it is compressed and travels through the rotor inlet to outlet.
...end Part I.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma
Part II of Jim Bell's comments concerning the lockup issue
Part II - LIGHTNING SUPERCHARGER HISTORY
Yes, we had some customers who experienced 2 failures. One customer had 3 failures before we finally figured it out. On the third unit, we insisted he install a JPL kit which at least has a separate cool air hose that runs to a bumper scoop. No more problems. Underhood temperatures can reach 200 deg or 130 deg hotter than the outside temp. Think carefully about this. Would you knowingly block off your radiator to improve aerodynamics, remove the engine fan to save HP and drain half the engine coolant to reduce weight? Now the engine runs at 300 deg vs. 180 deg, the pistons expand and score the cylinders or seize - just like any excessively hot supercharger rotors. So, why hurt your supercharger rotors with hot underhood radiator, engine and header air? Don't expect the suppliers of these "hot air" underhood kits to warranty your supercharger. None of them has yet to call me and offer help, so I'm suggesting you lose the "hot air" concept with any supercharger. By the way, does anyone believe this hot air doesn't also create potential problems for your engine's pistons, rings, valves, plugs etc.?
And I don't buy the "shrouded" filter or "it'll get enough cool air when the truck is moving" theories. Yes, there's some cool air that enters the engine compartment, but it is not enough. Even at the end of a quarter mile run, we do the worst thing imaginable to a positive displacement supercharger - we get off the gas and shut the throttle body thereby sealing off the cooler fresher inlet air supply forcing the supercharger to re-circulate it's own hot compressed air through the bypass valve. Now the supercharger unfortunately sees only it's own hot air bypassed into an intake system sealed off from any cooler air that can mix with the bypassed. Remember guys, the throttle body is shut off - hopefully - at the end of a 1/4 mile run, on decel etc.
Anyone, including the manufacturers and suppliers of these "hot air' kits, might ask Ford and other OEM engineers why they have designed expensive inlet systems with sealed canisters that ingest cool outside air from the fenderwell, hood etc. They've been doing it for 20 years, yet we still see them replaced by these "hot air" systems.
Occasionally, all of us - manufacturers, suppliers, resellers, competitors and customers need to take a deep breath, set aside the rhetoric, pull together and decide if a particular concept is good or bad. One of the posts said Kenne Bell should tell us what they recommend or don't recommend. At Kenne Bell, we believe "hot air" products are a bad addition to our supercharger kits and has contributed significantly to our failure rate.
Jim Bell
Part II - LIGHTNING SUPERCHARGER HISTORY
Yes, we had some customers who experienced 2 failures. One customer had 3 failures before we finally figured it out. On the third unit, we insisted he install a JPL kit which at least has a separate cool air hose that runs to a bumper scoop. No more problems. Underhood temperatures can reach 200 deg or 130 deg hotter than the outside temp. Think carefully about this. Would you knowingly block off your radiator to improve aerodynamics, remove the engine fan to save HP and drain half the engine coolant to reduce weight? Now the engine runs at 300 deg vs. 180 deg, the pistons expand and score the cylinders or seize - just like any excessively hot supercharger rotors. So, why hurt your supercharger rotors with hot underhood radiator, engine and header air? Don't expect the suppliers of these "hot air" underhood kits to warranty your supercharger. None of them has yet to call me and offer help, so I'm suggesting you lose the "hot air" concept with any supercharger. By the way, does anyone believe this hot air doesn't also create potential problems for your engine's pistons, rings, valves, plugs etc.?
And I don't buy the "shrouded" filter or "it'll get enough cool air when the truck is moving" theories. Yes, there's some cool air that enters the engine compartment, but it is not enough. Even at the end of a quarter mile run, we do the worst thing imaginable to a positive displacement supercharger - we get off the gas and shut the throttle body thereby sealing off the cooler fresher inlet air supply forcing the supercharger to re-circulate it's own hot compressed air through the bypass valve. Now the supercharger unfortunately sees only it's own hot air bypassed into an intake system sealed off from any cooler air that can mix with the bypassed. Remember guys, the throttle body is shut off - hopefully - at the end of a 1/4 mile run, on decel etc.
Anyone, including the manufacturers and suppliers of these "hot air' kits, might ask Ford and other OEM engineers why they have designed expensive inlet systems with sealed canisters that ingest cool outside air from the fenderwell, hood etc. They've been doing it for 20 years, yet we still see them replaced by these "hot air" systems.
Occasionally, all of us - manufacturers, suppliers, resellers, competitors and customers need to take a deep breath, set aside the rhetoric, pull together and decide if a particular concept is good or bad. One of the posts said Kenne Bell should tell us what they recommend or don't recommend. At Kenne Bell, we believe "hot air" products are a bad addition to our supercharger kits and has contributed significantly to our failure rate.
Jim Bell