Turbo Guru's-please give me your indepth opinions
Rusty,
Besides the good points made by Ian and engr_dave I think the biggest issue with a turbo is that it isn't likely to give you the low end power that you are looking for.
Because a turbo requires exhaust gas to spin, the engine needs to be running at a reasonable RPM to generate boost. At low RPM, such as off the line, the engine isn't going to get the sort of immediate power you are looking for. (Disclaimer: Yes there are plenty of Turbos that spin up at low RPM, as well as ways around the boost problem such as a higher speed stall converter and power braking, but in the end it is hard to beat a roots or screw type supercharger for low end power.)
When you factor in all the work required to install a turbocharger (The changes to the exhaust manifold, oil line plumbing, and the problems dealing with the carburetors to name just a few), a supercharger becomes a really nice option.
A 671 or similar blower will work with a carb without any major issues.
As for turbochargers on diesels? There are several reasons for that:
1. Diesel engines are meant to go a long time between rebuilds. A turbocharger is simpler and will last longer than a roots type supercharger.
2. Diesel engines are often used in a specific power band and so the turbo boost pressure can be tuned for that RPM.
3. Diesels already generate plenty of low end torue so there is little need to add anything at that point in the power curve.
Just my 2 cents.
-Don
Besides the good points made by Ian and engr_dave I think the biggest issue with a turbo is that it isn't likely to give you the low end power that you are looking for.
Because a turbo requires exhaust gas to spin, the engine needs to be running at a reasonable RPM to generate boost. At low RPM, such as off the line, the engine isn't going to get the sort of immediate power you are looking for. (Disclaimer: Yes there are plenty of Turbos that spin up at low RPM, as well as ways around the boost problem such as a higher speed stall converter and power braking, but in the end it is hard to beat a roots or screw type supercharger for low end power.)
When you factor in all the work required to install a turbocharger (The changes to the exhaust manifold, oil line plumbing, and the problems dealing with the carburetors to name just a few), a supercharger becomes a really nice option.
A 671 or similar blower will work with a carb without any major issues.
As for turbochargers on diesels? There are several reasons for that:
1. Diesel engines are meant to go a long time between rebuilds. A turbocharger is simpler and will last longer than a roots type supercharger.
2. Diesel engines are often used in a specific power band and so the turbo boost pressure can be tuned for that RPM.
3. Diesels already generate plenty of low end torue so there is little need to add anything at that point in the power curve.
Just my 2 cents.
-Don
I think a turbo install on a budget is possible. Fabrication skills are a must. I love my turbos on my Buicks! I'm over 450 lb/ft of torque (down low) outa these little V-6s! Stock long block!
I think tuning a carbed vesion will be tricky. Stock cast pistons in any boost applications are very risky. Most factory engines with puffers use a high quality forged version with a low compression ratio. High compression adds to tuning problems.
I know a guy that made his own turbo setup on an old 6cyl International Scout. It was quite impressive at the mud bogs. Don't know how it did on the street.
If you do it, start out VERY conservative on the boost and go from there. Use a good EGT meter to prevent melt down.
As for boost down low.... I can achieve 12 psi of boost with my trany brake on (dead stop 2400 rpms). Remember this is done with only 6 cylinders. Big Rigs turn very low RPMs. Turbos work well for them, but diesels expell alot of exhaust gasses. Good Luck and keep us posted. I'd love to do it to my 5.4 Dave C.
I think tuning a carbed vesion will be tricky. Stock cast pistons in any boost applications are very risky. Most factory engines with puffers use a high quality forged version with a low compression ratio. High compression adds to tuning problems.
I know a guy that made his own turbo setup on an old 6cyl International Scout. It was quite impressive at the mud bogs. Don't know how it did on the street.
If you do it, start out VERY conservative on the boost and go from there. Use a good EGT meter to prevent melt down.
As for boost down low.... I can achieve 12 psi of boost with my trany brake on (dead stop 2400 rpms). Remember this is done with only 6 cylinders. Big Rigs turn very low RPMs. Turbos work well for them, but diesels expell alot of exhaust gasses. Good Luck and keep us posted. I'd love to do it to my 5.4 Dave C.
Last edited by DAVID C; Sep 7, 2003 at 12:25 PM.
sirket
you are person number two to recommend a roots type blower. I asked this before and received no reply. Do you know of a manufacturer that either has one or modifies them to work on a 351. I have checked everywhere that I could they do make them for carbed 302's but as you know the base would not fit my 351. There are none specific to the 351, you would think there would be but as far as I know they are not. I know I could go procharger but I would like to explore this option as well. Thanks
you are person number two to recommend a roots type blower. I asked this before and received no reply. Do you know of a manufacturer that either has one or modifies them to work on a 351. I have checked everywhere that I could they do make them for carbed 302's but as you know the base would not fit my 351. There are none specific to the 351, you would think there would be but as far as I know they are not. I know I could go procharger but I would like to explore this option as well. Thanks
holley makes a kit for the 302, summit has them. no listing for 351
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/79738/
see if this helos with the centrifigal s/c.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/79738/
see if this helos with the centrifigal s/c.
rusty,
I do not know of any specific kits for this engine. Most of the setups I have seen like this require making the right adapter plate or using the right intake manifold.
I will look around and see what I can find.
-Don
I do not know of any specific kits for this engine. Most of the setups I have seen like this require making the right adapter plate or using the right intake manifold.
I will look around and see what I can find.
-Don
Brotherdave
That vortech would probably do the trick.
Sirket
Yeah I have heard of yet never seen these roots type blowers with custom intakes. Guess a roots blower on a 351 isn't a popular combo.
I at one time when ordering parts talked to a tech at summit an out of curiosity asked about the 302 roots blower and asked if maybe they or any manufacturer may have a roots type for the 351, he looked it up and said no. He mentioned some people do custom intakes as you mentioned sirket yet he could not get specific. I thought at that point custom = more money and well there are many ways to hp, however I still like the roots type. Later
That vortech would probably do the trick.
Sirket
Yeah I have heard of yet never seen these roots type blowers with custom intakes. Guess a roots blower on a 351 isn't a popular combo.
I at one time when ordering parts talked to a tech at summit an out of curiosity asked about the 302 roots blower and asked if maybe they or any manufacturer may have a roots type for the 351, he looked it up and said no. He mentioned some people do custom intakes as you mentioned sirket yet he could not get specific. I thought at that point custom = more money and well there are many ways to hp, however I still like the roots type. Later
NEWBIE to the forum
first off, turbo can create hell torque at low rpms, so for thiose who think you need high RPM for a turbo are stupid. second a properly sixed turbo will build boost quickly and stay even though the RPM range. third, for you to think about putting a turbo on your motor, i would not recomend any more then 9.5 to compression.
i know you are in a truck, but goto www.turbomustangs.com and check out the JY turbo section, all of the same technologies apply to your motor. also check out www.dallasturbo.com those guys know thier stuff.
here in texas, we have several local guys with blow threw turbo setups and some runs nines in the 1/4 with small motors, 3.08 and tall tires.
i know you are in a truck, but goto www.turbomustangs.com and check out the JY turbo section, all of the same technologies apply to your motor. also check out www.dallasturbo.com those guys know thier stuff.
here in texas, we have several local guys with blow threw turbo setups and some runs nines in the 1/4 with small motors, 3.08 and tall tires.



