OK guys need some help. I have a 2000 4x4 expy, magnaflow catback, airforce 1 and now a superchips. I greatly like the way the truck is shifting now. However I was wanting more out of the new programed engine than it can give right now. I think the only way to get the response and feel on the butt-o-meter I want is to get it blown. What do you guys recomend, kenne bell, magnacharger, ????? Any and all comments appreciated.

 

Your choice of supercharger will depend on how you use your truck and how you want it to perform.

Go to http://www.trixters-playground. Call either Crash or Skid, leave a message and they will return your call.

Then come on over to http://www.got-pressure.com/yabbse/index.php. You will find much valuable information on supercharging.

 

Check this thread for my experience with the Kenne Bell:

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=97238

 

I looked a a number of kits when I made my selection: Magnacharger, ATI, Vortech, Holley, Kenne Belle and Whipple.

I have a MagnaCharger - the reason I chose it over the ATI and the twin screw (ie Whipple or Kenne Bell) was:

1) I wanted positive displacement for low end torque and instant boost - the Expy is heavy and I tow a big trailer; so no centrifigal.

2) I liked the twin screw design but:
a) The KB kit has no intercooler
b) KB's reputation for customer service is very bad
c) Whipple doesn't make a kit for the 5.4
so, no twin-screw.

3) The Holley kit is more a collection of parts than a kit.

4) The Magna is very well engineered, has an intercooler and is a complete kit. Their support is excellent. I installed it with a friend over a couple of days.

I would make the same choice again, given my circumstances. If I was drag racing a short box 5 speed, I would get the ATI. I wouldn't touch KB unless I had an expert installer to take care of all the work (and stand behind it if there was a problem).

Ian

 

The KB doesnt need an intercooler, because the twin screw design is much more efficient than the roots style. The intake charger temp of the KB is far lower than a a roots, therefore the roots needs an intercooler to even come close to those temps.

 

That's just not true. KB would like you to believe that their kit doesn't require intercooling but KB sells water injection as an intercooling device because they haven't packaged an intercooler into their kit.

Any time you compress a gas, its temp increases. The increase can lead to detonation. That's why the ATI kit (which is more adiabatically efficient than a KB) comes with an intercooler.

You are right that a twin screw is generally more efficient than a roots type at higer pressure ratios ( PR > 1.5 or ~7psi).

On the other hand, a twin-screw has more drag on the engine when off boost than a roots or centrifigal type. Mercedes gets around this on their new cars with a clutch on the blower.

Hey, don't take my word for it. Take a look at Corky Bell's book Supercharged! for a discussion of intercoolers and why they are required for all blowers and turbo's.

Ian

 

So which is a better Kit the Magnacharger or the ATI. I am requiring lowend torque as well as performace in the higher RPMs?

 

Both are excellent kits (I have an ATI) but it sounds to me like a Magnacharger is for you.

Call the guys at http://www.trixters-playground.com..

They will make you a deal that is hard to beat, especially when you consider the after sale support.

 

Remember that a Expy 4x4 weighs 6000#, while a short box reg cab weighs well under 5000. That is a lot of mass to get rolling.

For towing and all round performance IMHO the Magnacharger is best. For ultimate 1/4 acceleration, the ATI would probably be better, because ultimately it makes more boost (but only at higher rpm).

I wanted torque and I got it with the Magnacharger. I don't run at the dragstrip and my engine almost never goes over 4500 rpm (although I had to wring its neck before the blower to get it moving).

I agree that Crash is a good guy to talk to.

Ian

 

I would recommend reading this article from "Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords" :

http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/COBRA.pdf

 

I finished my ATI install a couple of days ago. With my Diablo chip installed I have sufficient low end that if I stomp it, it smokes the tires through first gear. Couldn't use any more without slicks.

 

All actual data that I have ever seen indicates that the KB without an intercooler has a lower intake charge temp than the Magna with the intercooler.

Will the KB benefit from an intercooler? Sure it will, as will any boosted application.

If anyone has any hard data to back up that the Magna runs cooler intake temps at a set boost level, I'd like to see them. Personally I don't think you will find that this data exists.

As for the "kit" aspect and support I would agree that both the ATI and Magna packages are overall better matched to the application. That being said, any blower app needs fuel and chip mods. IMO any blower app running more than very mild boost levels should have a custom tune done PER THE VEHICLE, and not in any kit or engine specific tune regardless.

Differences in stock MAF, injectors, port matching and numerous other factors will affect the tune. Anyone looking for a safe tune with max potential is seriously shorting themselves going with anything off the shelf IMO.


Once again if anyone has any hard data, please reference it. Every single test I have seen shows the KB to run cooler. They also show that the KB can provide a much higher boost level. The only downside I have ever seen is that the Magna will show a small advantage at lower revs and boost levels. Once the revs and/or boost levels comes up the advantage goes to the KB.

There IS a reason the Lightning guys are switching over, and it's not to slow the trucks down.

 

Yes the L guys are swithching over B U T don't forget, they are I N T E R C O O L E D ! ! !

 

Madferraristi,

As I said, the KB with an intercooler is a bigger plus. If you reference the MM&FF article you will find that at a given boost level the KB temps before the intercooler match or are lower than the Magna temps after the intercooler.

Since the two blowers produced different boost levels with equal sized pulleys, it's hard to nail down a set boost level for an exact comparison.... but here is one example.

Eaton @ 10.4 lbs boost temp 205 exiting cooler temp 265 entering cooler

KB @ 11.9 lbs boost temp 201 entering cooler

***Edited to correct the Eaton input temp. I originally put 235 which was the input temp at lower boost***



The temps come up quick on the Magna when boost is added, not nearly as quick on the KB. Hard data is hard data, and I've yet to see any that shows otherwise in the case of the KB blowers vs the equal sized Eaton.

 

Here we go again with the BS MM&FF article. To quote Mark Twain: "Figures don't lie but liars can figure".

First of all the test was not made with a Magnacharger kit, it was a kit from Saleen.

The second item to consider is that the intercooler was way more efficient when running with the KB than the Eaton AND KB WAS RUNNING THE TESTS.

In that test, the intercooler efficiency was 29% avg for the Eaton and 44% avg when used with the KB. This would have a big effect on the power output of the engine. There is no thermodynamic reason that I can think of for there to be such a difference. Even 42% is very low for a water to air unit - it should have been around 70-80%.

All things being equal, the efficiency of the intercooler should be higher when the inlet temps are higher, yet in this case the opposite was true. Why? I don't know, but I suspect someone at KB or MM&FF cooked the results (like disconnecting the intercooler pump before running the eaton) to make their blower look better.

By the way, did you note the comment on how KB is developing their own line of intercoolers? How convenient! I bet those will be more than 28% efficient when MM&FF tests them at KB's facility.

Also, did you notice that the average inlet temp to the Eaton was 78* and only 74* to the KB? Small difference but typical of the numbers games being played.

The other item that is entirely misleading in the article is to base the comparison on pully size. Pulley size is totally irrelevant. Only boost levels can be used for an apple to apple comparison. The only graph that is a direct comparison in that article is the one on the bottom of page 190 that shows at the same boost level, the roots makes more power below 4000 rpm and the KB makes more power above (even with the I/C games being played).

As I said before, all things being equal, the twin-screw design would be more efficient at high pressure ratios due to its internal compression. The downside is that it has much higher drag on the motor when out of boost than the Eaton (again due to its internal compression).

Ian