For any of you out there who have dabbled in car audio for several years, I have a question for you.

I don't conisder myself a noob when it comes to installs and such, but one thing I don't like about my F150 is the way the front speakers sound compared to my x-01 ranger.

Have any of you done anything interesting to your door speaker installs to up the midbass, mostly anything 80 hz to say.... 1000hz or so? I don't know if it is the size of the interior door that is just sucking the damping out of the speaker or what.

I already have the dynamat, phase and amp stuff taken care of, I just want a little more - call me ****! I hear crutchfield sells a foamy insert for the speaker to protect it from water - but does it do anything to increase or decrease SQ?

Any ideas?

PS - I don't want to add kicks - 5.25's must stay in the doors!

 

Well it really depends on what you want as far as midbass. Dynamat or another sound deadener worked wonders for me. Deaden the outside door skin and then make sure you cover/seal up all the holes in the door with a deadener and that will give you a vast improvement. Another option, which would be my last would be to get an EQ and EQ up the frequencies you want. I would only do that if the bump ups were fairly minor. The third option is to get deticated midbass.

To me it sounds like your doors could use a little more work on deadening and make sure they a sealed as best as possible. If that is done then I think you need another set of speakers that fit your taste better or deticated midbass. Again though I really believe the problem lies in the deadening because once it was done in my truck my midbass was nice with stock. Now with the Utopias with the deticated midbass my midbass is killer.

Once you get into the 1000 Hz range your into midrange. Also, once your getting to 80 Hz your more at the tail end of the midrange. Pending on what speakers and how sealed they are they may begin to roll off right around 80 Hz. Perhaps you need a sub...

Just noticed you have 5.25s ... thats probably part of your problem. You may be milking them for all that they have esp since its only a 2 way set.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply... hazard. Have you ever seen anyone actually pull off a 3 way in the '98 body style? It'd be a great system to have something like that - but its' a little too far out of reach for me. You've got a 04 right? I hear the systems are way tighter and smoother than the stock 98's!!

Anyway, the front and back of the speaker are isolated very well, except the window area, and I've got enough subbage.


Has anyone out there actually worked with the numbers (Fs, Q, Fc,etc) when installing the FULL RANGE speakers (i.e. like when creating a sub box) for optimum air volume and damping? And what have you done?



Keep the posts comin, it's helping me! -And hopefully others too

 

What up frostby! If you want to get a midbass response going like your sub response I highly suggest going with a set of 8's in the doors. We are talking the extreme end of installs, but if you've never heard 8's in doors, your missing out big time. Cgorris runs them in his rig right now with the same body style as yours, so yes it can be done. This is what Hazard is reffering to as dedicated mid-bass. In the case of 8's running mid-bass, you would want to run them seled for the best response and yes you would want to run the numbers to get the right size for the particular driver your working with. Problem is you will have to still want to run something like the 5.25's with them and not wanting kicks, puts it all in the doors.

I had a comp type system in a 92 Sierra back when it was new. I had made kick panels along the bottoms of the doors that were sealed and believe they got 200 watts a side. It was an awesome feeling with lots of preassure coming from every frequency in the truck. They were my favorite part of the install. They were cool cause they were not in the way when you got in but when the door shut it was on! I did use another set of panels so to not cut holes in the stock ones. I'm **** that way. I've got new parts in my attic from all the trucks i've ever had and done that to. I think they call it OCD

To honestly squeeze 100 hz out of a set of 5.25" with an EQ would most likley not get you what your after either. They work best for very minor tweeking.

I too have the feeling that your 5.25's have got to be pushing there limits and will most likely not give you what your looking for no matter how well they get installed if your here looking for more If you can't bring yourself to completly cutting apart your truck but still want more, the 6.5" comps will give you quite a ride and sound even better sealed. The CDT's are an awesome speaker for that range of frequency's and they offer small thiel's on there site and recomend selaed air volumes on most of there speakers. I have the HD-62's in sealed kicks @ .20 ft3 and they have the best mid-bass response i've ever heard out of a 6.5" mid. I've also read in quite a few places to cut a 1" hole in the bottoms of sealed enclosures so the air is pushing through the carpet on kick panels. They say it will help flatten out the range your looking at here, particularly the 100-500 hz range. I have not found the need yet.

The foamies do nothing but keep water off your speaker and have noticed them actually decrease the SQ in most applications.

In short, make sealed enclosures for where ever the speakers can be mounted and it will sound better than just running free air.

The brown truck just dropped of my new HU. Gotta go put it in and check it out

 

frostby,

If you want to take the time and put forth alot of effort and fab work do this. Take the 5.25 out, make a thin wooden mounting plate, cut another wooden plate (very thin no thicker than 1/4") slightly larger than the magnet of your 5.25 use fiberglass to make a sealed enclosure for your door speakers so it is just ever so slightly larger than the speaker then use about 1/4-1/2" thick fiberglass insulation and sandwich it between two pieces of metal grill making sure the holes line up. cut a hole in the enclosure about the size of the magnet directly behind the speaker and attach your sanwich of fiberglass (aperiodic membrane) over the hole that you cut in the back of the enclosure. Now you have an aperiodic enclosure for your 5.25's mounted in the doors and the midbass will absolutely stomp.

 

cgorris, when your doing those enclosures, am I right in assuming that your sealing the speaker but not the pole vent? And how much space is between the glass and speaker? Sounds like very minimal. I've never been around anything like that and just curious.

I'm still contemplating doing the 8's in the doors but it's gonna take some nads to go cutting apart my 04. I'm gonna have to think about that one. This is what you plan doing with yours wasn't it?

 

A pretty good read on AP enclosures. http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=18

I have a 3 way set in an 02, which is the same as the 98. Midbass in the doors and midrange and tweeters in the kicks. I have 6.5 mids xovered at 300 Hz. The midbass I get out of the 6.5s is absolutely killer. It has even made me get rid of the 10w7s I was going to use and go with some much smaller just to pick up low end. I'd say my 6.5s probably rolls off right around 40-50Hz.

 

Hey cgorris, you wouldnt happen to have any pics (install or final) of the 8's in your doors would you.

I was really wanting to do it for awhile then other things came and i kinda forgot about it.

I went into a car audio shop one day and asked them what they had for 8's and what I was doing, he said I wouldnt be happy. then he tried to get me to sell my sub and amp and buy a profile amp and mtx sub from him becuse they are such "higher quality"
I just walked away.

Anyway, any advice or pics would be awsome, thanks

 

Hazard,

Yes, that is a very good article explaining the AP.

Steve,

Basically you are putting the entire speaker into an enclosure that is barely larger that the speaker itself and the using the AP membrane to vent the rear of the enclosure inside the door with a restrictive membrane. There is only about 1/4" between AP and speaker magnet but it is plenty. In short your not venting just the pole piece your venting the entire rear of the speaker. Once you have all that done you can actually use an RTA and tune the door speakers although tuning is not necessary for midbass it does give you the option to be a perfectionist. As far as nads go I would hack away the doors because that is the easiest thing to fix well enough to not hurt the value of the vehicle. Not to mention you could always remove your 8" speakers and make another mounting plate for a 5x7 coax to return to a stock style system.

Bartak,

I have a pic in my gallery that you can see the 8" through the factory grill but that's about it. When I get time I will take some more recent ones with the door skins off. I gotta do it within the next few months anyway for another show coming up here in Atlanta. Check my gallery and you can see them. The speakers I am using are the Kicker UMB8 Resolution because it is wicked thin but there are a few others out there pretty close in mounting depth. I been thinking about adding a couple 10" in the rear doors but it will have to wait awhile.

 

Hey thanks to all!!!!!!

This is the kind of stuff that I am looking for!!! I really really appreciate all of the feedback. Can't wait to get started!

PS; I love hearing what you guys have done to your trucks too - for the serious installs!

 

That is good stuff! I would love to sit in that truck and check it out. I like the end, "If you want meats in your doors, your gonna have to sacrifice" Thats hot!

 

Just take your time and expect that its going to take twice as long as you planned.

 

Steve,

To my knowledge that truck isn't around any longer (at least in that configuration). When it was around I got a chance to hear it at a regional show and it was quite impressive. Anyway that is the perfect example of how to go about doing it if you wanted to. It would be especially effective in a regular cab.

 

Hey Chris, those Kickers are jsut midbasses(sp), correct?

Do they hit pretty hard or are they more fill, or can you just hear it is what Im trying to say I guess.

I was going to put them in the rear doors( I thought thats where you had put yours). But since you mentioned puting 10's in the rear you wouldnt happen to have any ideas on how to do it would you? I took my door panel off awhile back and it looks like it would be pretty hard to fit anything in there(especially 10's if you are trying to do that) The biggest problem is going to be the backspacing and the idea that the door will have to be the box(unless you can get a aperiodic enclosure in there).

 

Bartak,

I have the 8" in the front doors. The 10" that I am talking about putting in the rear doors would also be done with an AP enclosure due to the size restrictions. I haven't yet torn the rear doors down and ried to make it work but I am sure I can get it done. I more than likely will have to mold fiberglass enclosures that stick out of the rear doors and attached to the rear door panels in some fashion but I can make it work if I want it bad enough. I will let you know on how the rear doors come along and post pics when I get the chance. It will probably be in the winter when I revamp the entire install prepping for competition in the Pro or Expert divisions.

Anyway, the 8" in the front door I have them running midbass only for the most part. They do pretty well if you ran them up to about 2khz but they really sound best as a midbass only driver. I am running them from 50hz-250hz rolling them off on the top and bottom in at 30db/octave so it is a very steep roll off on both ends but that is mainly due to the effects they have on the staging above those frequencies when mounted in the doors.