Spark Plug Mayhem???? Is there a class action?
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 13,678
Likes: 84
From: missing Texas...
and you think that the tech performing the work should do it for free? how is that fair on the individual performing the work??
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 548
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From: New Hampshire
Somehow I don't believe that the tech gets any of that extra money, short of his hourly wage. 99% of that money is sucked up by the dealership.
Do you feel it is fair to charge a customer to repair damage caused by the person performing the work
If I hire a plumber to replace the wax ring under my toilet should I be expected to buy a new toilet because he broke the old one while removing it ? No !
If the painter puts his extension ladder through your 2nd floor bedroom window are you going to sit back and just eat the cost to replace the window ? I doubt it !
I know these are completely different type situations, but the philosophy is the same. You damaged / broke it, You repair / replace it.
Granted there is a bit of a grey area here because this is a known and potential problem. So, I could see and accept splitting the extra cost of any broken plugs due to the now required extra time involved. Yet, many of you guys have proven that the job can be done without breaking plugs, it isn't easy and it takes time and patience and clearly some luck. If you guys can do it then a trained and certified Ford service tech damn well ought to be able to do it. If they need to keep the truck an extra day to give the plugs a chance to soak and be worked, so be it.
Whats to prevent some bonehead mechanic, whether on his own or on instruction from an unscrupulous service manager from just braking them all on purpose or Saying they broke them, so that they can soak the customer an extra 400, 600 or 800 bucks +. All they have to do is keep a handful of broken plugs in a drawer and show them to the customer and say they came from his truck.
And don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen !
Last edited by mlamprey; Aug 26, 2010 at 08:53 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Canton, Georgia
No ! I never said or even insinuated that the job should be done for free ! I do however fully expect that a person, Any person that I hire to do a job, that they have been trained and certified to do, actually be capable of doing that job.
Somehow I don't believe that the tech gets any of that extra money, short of his hourly wage. 99% of that money is sucked up by the dealership.
Do you feel it is fair to charge a customer to repair damage caused by the person performing the work
If I hire a plumber to replace the wax ring under my toilet should I be expected to buy a new toilet because he broke the old one while removing it ? No !
If the painter puts his extension ladder through your 2nd floor bedroom window are you going to sit back and just eat the cost to replace the window ? I doubt it !
I know these are completely different type situations, but the philosophy is the same. You damaged / broke it, You repair / replace it.
Granted there is a bit of a grey area here because this is a known and potential problem. So, I could see and accept splitting the extra cost of any broken plugs due to the now required extra time involved. Yet, many of you guys have proven that the job can be done without breaking plugs, it isn't easy and it takes time and patience and clearly some luck. If you guys can do it then a trained and certified Ford service tech damn well ought to be able to do it. If they need to keep the truck an extra day to give the plugs a chance to soak and be worked, so be it.
Whats to prevent some bonehead mechanic, whether on his own or on instruction from an unscrupulous service manager from just braking them all on purpose or Saying they broke them, so that they can soak the customer an extra 400, 600 or 800 bucks +. All they have to do is keep a handful of broken plugs in a drawer and show them to the customer and say they came from his truck.
And don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen !
Somehow I don't believe that the tech gets any of that extra money, short of his hourly wage. 99% of that money is sucked up by the dealership.
Do you feel it is fair to charge a customer to repair damage caused by the person performing the work
If I hire a plumber to replace the wax ring under my toilet should I be expected to buy a new toilet because he broke the old one while removing it ? No !
If the painter puts his extension ladder through your 2nd floor bedroom window are you going to sit back and just eat the cost to replace the window ? I doubt it !
I know these are completely different type situations, but the philosophy is the same. You damaged / broke it, You repair / replace it.
Granted there is a bit of a grey area here because this is a known and potential problem. So, I could see and accept splitting the extra cost of any broken plugs due to the now required extra time involved. Yet, many of you guys have proven that the job can be done without breaking plugs, it isn't easy and it takes time and patience and clearly some luck. If you guys can do it then a trained and certified Ford service tech damn well ought to be able to do it. If they need to keep the truck an extra day to give the plugs a chance to soak and be worked, so be it.
Whats to prevent some bonehead mechanic, whether on his own or on instruction from an unscrupulous service manager from just braking them all on purpose or Saying they broke them, so that they can soak the customer an extra 400, 600 or 800 bucks +. All they have to do is keep a handful of broken plugs in a drawer and show them to the customer and say they came from his truck.
And don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen !
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,697
Likes: 14
From: In the fast lane from LA to Tokyo...
My son who is a journeyman mechanic attempted to remove the plugs from my 06 Screw. 5.4 ltr, 71,000 miles. We read about the issues of the breaking plugs and used the recommended removal of 1/4 turns, penetrating oil, wait 10 minutes, another turn, more oil, etc... We finally felt we could remove the plugs and were feeling confident until we looked in the socket and saw half a plug in 5 of the 8 plugs.
My son contacted his Snap On rep and got the kit for a mere $226.00. We worked on the extraction process and 5 hours and we were able to remove the plug ends, first the porcelain, then the sleeve. What a pain.
My son-in-law had to replace an engine in a 99 Expedition with blown plugs, now this.
I love Ford Trucks but this is a joke. I called the local dealer and asked, "If i bring my truck in for a plug change and one breaks, who pays for it?" I was told I would if they use the kit it is $100 a stuck plug and if they have to pull the heads it is $2800 to $3500. My treat!!!!!!!
Ford is in denial about this and this is a bad design. A 2 piece sleeve on a plug no tolerance for carbon and denial that it is a problem.
I would like to join any class actions for plug blow outs (for my son-in-law) or broken plugs removal.
My son contacted his Snap On rep and got the kit for a mere $226.00. We worked on the extraction process and 5 hours and we were able to remove the plug ends, first the porcelain, then the sleeve. What a pain.
My son-in-law had to replace an engine in a 99 Expedition with blown plugs, now this.
I love Ford Trucks but this is a joke. I called the local dealer and asked, "If i bring my truck in for a plug change and one breaks, who pays for it?" I was told I would if they use the kit it is $100 a stuck plug and if they have to pull the heads it is $2800 to $3500. My treat!!!!!!!
Ford is in denial about this and this is a bad design. A 2 piece sleeve on a plug no tolerance for carbon and denial that it is a problem.
I would like to join any class actions for plug blow outs (for my son-in-law) or broken plugs removal.
My SnapOn rep sells the lilse extraction tool for $90.
The exact same tool you can buy at napa for the same price.
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There's one that always comes up for the 3v plugs.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 25,641
Likes: 19
From: MI
you are comparing apples to oranges dude. its not the techs fault the plug breaks its a design flaw. have you ever worked on a rusty car? bolts break, there is nothing you can do they will break... so the shop should have to incur the cost to extract a broken bolt because the driver drive over snow ice and salt? technically its the customers fault for waiting for 60+ k to do the plug change....
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 25,641
Likes: 19
From: MI
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis65600.html
And the socket -
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/otc-6900.html
Might as well post the TSB as well (PDF) -
http://www.revivalogistics.com/docum...28-59%20AM.pdf
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 25,641
Likes: 19
From: MI
- Yea, you need Amo man. That's important 
Global Moderator &
Senior Member
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
No ! I never said or even insinuated that the job should be done for free ! I do however fully expect that a person, Any person that I hire to do a job, that they have been trained and certified to do, actually be capable of doing that job.
Somehow I don't believe that the tech gets any of that extra money, short of his hourly wage. 99% of that money is sucked up by the dealership.
Do you feel it is fair to charge a customer to repair damage caused by the person performing the work
If I hire a plumber to replace the wax ring under my toilet should I be expected to buy a new toilet because he broke the old one while removing it ? No !
If the painter puts his extension ladder through your 2nd floor bedroom window are you going to sit back and just eat the cost to replace the window ? I doubt it !
I know these are completely different type situations, but the philosophy is the same. You damaged / broke it, You repair / replace it.
Granted there is a bit of a grey area here because this is a known and potential problem. So, I could see and accept splitting the extra cost of any broken plugs due to the now required extra time involved. Yet, many of you guys have proven that the job can be done without breaking plugs, it isn't easy and it takes time and patience and clearly some luck. If you guys can do it then a trained and certified Ford service tech damn well ought to be able to do it. If they need to keep the truck an extra day to give the plugs a chance to soak and be worked, so be it.
Whats to prevent some bonehead mechanic, whether on his own or on instruction from an unscrupulous service manager from just braking them all on purpose or Saying they broke them, so that they can soak the customer an extra 400, 600 or 800 bucks +. All they have to do is keep a handful of broken plugs in a drawer and show them to the customer and say they came from his truck.
And don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen !
Somehow I don't believe that the tech gets any of that extra money, short of his hourly wage. 99% of that money is sucked up by the dealership.
Do you feel it is fair to charge a customer to repair damage caused by the person performing the work
If I hire a plumber to replace the wax ring under my toilet should I be expected to buy a new toilet because he broke the old one while removing it ? No !
If the painter puts his extension ladder through your 2nd floor bedroom window are you going to sit back and just eat the cost to replace the window ? I doubt it !
I know these are completely different type situations, but the philosophy is the same. You damaged / broke it, You repair / replace it.
Granted there is a bit of a grey area here because this is a known and potential problem. So, I could see and accept splitting the extra cost of any broken plugs due to the now required extra time involved. Yet, many of you guys have proven that the job can be done without breaking plugs, it isn't easy and it takes time and patience and clearly some luck. If you guys can do it then a trained and certified Ford service tech damn well ought to be able to do it. If they need to keep the truck an extra day to give the plugs a chance to soak and be worked, so be it.
Whats to prevent some bonehead mechanic, whether on his own or on instruction from an unscrupulous service manager from just braking them all on purpose or Saying they broke them, so that they can soak the customer an extra 400, 600 or 800 bucks +. All they have to do is keep a handful of broken plugs in a drawer and show them to the customer and say they came from his truck.
And don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen !
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Jim
Jim
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
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Ford Motor Company created this crappy design and continued to use it, for years, knowing that it's customer are incurring EXCESSIVE costs. Most of us here fix our own. Someone that can't do the work is really stuck. The customer should not be stuck with the cost of a design "failure", nor should the dealer\shop. This is Ford's issue, they should be compensating for repairs over what they have a plug change set at.
BTW, I contacted my local dealer for their rate to change plugs. $250 parts & labor + $50 per hour for broken plugs.
BTW, I contacted my local dealer for their rate to change plugs. $250 parts & labor + $50 per hour for broken plugs.
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Senior Member
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,080
Likes: 84
From: Burleson/Athens/Brownsboro, TX
Ford Motor Company created this crappy design and continued to use it, for years, knowing that it's customer are incurring EXCESSIVE costs. Most of us here fix our own. Someone that can't do the work is really stuck. The customer should not be stuck with the cost of a design "failure", nor should the dealer\shop. This is Ford's issue, they should be compensating for repairs over what they have a plug change set at.
BTW, I contacted my local dealer for their rate to change plugs. $250 parts & labor + $50 per hour for broken plugs.
BTW, I contacted my local dealer for their rate to change plugs. $250 parts & labor + $50 per hour for broken plugs.
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Jim
Jim
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,532
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From: Joplin MO
My local dealer charges $260 which includes one or two free extractions. Extractions over and above 2 are billed at actual clock time at $80 an hour.
I have to take issue with that. How long after introduction of the head design in 2004 do you think it took for enough vehicles to accumulate enough miles to require plug changes to start showing a breakage trend? Add that to the time required to completely redesign the head, and I don't think 4 years is THAT bad.
Ford Motor Company created this crappy design and continued to use it, for years, knowing that it's customer are incurring EXCESSIVE costs.
Last edited by glc; Sep 29, 2010 at 04:53 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2
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Help please.
I tried pulling plugs before knowing the problems. My bad I should have looked. I bought the lisle tool and the extraction went well. I removed 2 plugs and put 2 new ones in but now the truck runs very rough. It ran perfect before i messed with it. Any help about what may be going on.