I have been considering a rebuild for some time now, but have been nervous about starting the process.

I have a 302 with EFI and speed density in my '91 F-150.

I want a a 351 Windsor installed, circa 1994. With mass air and computer as from the factory.

There is a 385 horsepower version of a carbureted 351W available from an engine builder in Texas, but I'm wondering if I can stick with the 1994 computer and EFI and get this much power from the 351W. What would be required as far as reprogramming the factory computer? The rebuilt engine included such things as:
1. Factory rods with ARP bolts
2. TRW hypereutectic 10:1 pistons (if someone could explain what this means, please tell me)
3. Sealed Power rings
4. Crane 284 cam kit (question is, will this put the power/torque where I want them for the truck--or will it be a high-RPM street engine?)
5. Cloyes timing set
6. Clevite 77 bearings
7. High volume oil pump
8. Fel Pro gaskets
9. New World products Windsor heads (stage I ported)--again, if anyone can explain this to me, I'd appreciate it. And will these put the power/torque in an RPM range where it'd be too high to be useful for towing?
10. 2.02" stainless intake valves
11. 1.60" stainless exhaust valves
12. New comp cams pushrods (I guess this is good??)
13. Crane Hi Intensity roller rockers

A comp cams hydraulic roller cam kit is available for $750. I have been told this will give more power and is worth the cost. True??

Anyhow, two concerns:

1. I want to pass emissions tests
2. I want to be able to stay computerized and keep EFI with mass air.

Can I do these??

Thanks,
Mike

 

First, I doubt that the crate 385 horse is smog legal. It may possibly meet the sniffer test, but it won't pass a visual.

Second, I'm just guessing, but it looks to me like this is putting your power and torque in the 2000 to 6000 rpm range. You can tweak that somewhat with the right exhaust and certainly with an appropriate gear in the rear axle. (Maybe a 4.10 or so.)

I don't know the trade offs on FI, but I do know that you can certainly get the fuel flow as fast as most carbs and more efficiently, so I would think you could go FI with the appropriate setup and not lose on the horses.

Those are all my opinions as an outside observer; I tell you what, you'd bug out some Camaros and Mustangs off the stoplight with that type of HP and the appropriate rear end. I'd love to see it!!

Slik

 

Well, the trick's still to find the way to make this setup work with EFI.

Visual test? If I'm EFI and no carb, won't I pass that?

-Mike

 

Hey Mike... are you talking about the engines listed at ford-performance.com??? I too have been looking at the 351's there.. and am planning a 351W swap soon. The only questions I have are concerning the idle of these engines?? With a big lopey cam, and all this work, they might be kinda rough. Please keep us updated.

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1995 F-150 Regular Cab Flareside w/ 302 V8... Mods: Mass Air, K&N FIPK, Dual Exhaust (no mufflers), Lund Premier Tonneau Cover, Motorsports 9mm Plug Wires, full JL/Kicker/Pioneer system

 

Depends on the state and inspector. In California, they would look at the Carb and say no good it has to be EFI. In NC, you could probably get by if it passed the sniffer test. But, also part of the visual is the presence of the smog pump (if required), the cats, the carbon can, the PCV, EGR, closed air cleaner with heat stove (if carbed). I had one guy in NC complain that I did not have a heat stove from the manifold to the air cleaner, even though the air cleaner was an open element. He didn't care about the open element, he just wanted the heat stove in place????

Call up the folks that are putting the 351 together and they'll give you at least a good opinion of what your options are. Don't ask them about emissions or they'll clam up and say that it is for off-road use only (may or may not be true). I bought an Edelbrock 600 cfm, 50 state legal carb; but when I called Edelbrock and asked a few questions about how it ties to the EGR, he got rather indignant and stated that it is only 50 state legal on the Chevy 350s, not the Fords and would not pass inspection! (Inspectors never even gave it a second look.)

Will it pass emissions tests? No one will gaurantee that. You need to have a good feel for how tough your emissions laws are and realize that you are technically not emissions legal by federal guidelines. If you want to keep it 100% legal, you have to swap like for like or get a crate that is built to meet the emissions standards for your year vehicle. WARNING: Smog legal 351s will not make 385 HP.

Slik

 

A couple of other things I forgot to mention. You should be able to use your existing upper intake, but you will have to get a 351 lower intake, because the 302 lower is narrower and will not bolt to a 351. Junkyards would be a good place to start, because a dealership will get you for about $250-350, and I can't think of any aftermarket lowers that will mate to a truck upper. The stage 1 head just means a mild port or polish (maybe both). To make low to mid rpm torque, you don't want that. The World Products Windsor is what I would suggest...it is a great head. However, make sure that it is the Windsor and NOT the Windsor Jr. The combustion chamber in the Jr. is too small for what you want. Also, depending on the specs of the cam (advertised duration, duration at .050 lift, and valve lift) 2.02 int. and 1.60 exh. valves might be a tad big. 1.94 int. and 1.54 exh. might be a better fit. How much is this crate motor by the way, because if you piece this thing together, you could probably save about $1000. If you can find a good block and crank core at a junkyard, take them to a machine shop to get them prepped and have the cam bearings installed in the block, order a rebuild kit from Summit or Jegs along with a good cam and those WP heads...then there shouldn't be anything that you can't do without a good shop manual. This way, I would estimate that you could have a well built 351 custom tailored to your needs for between $1500 to $2000. I am assuming that crate motor is listing for between $2500-3000.

 

I don't think there is anyway you can build a 385 HP 351W for 2k even getting the block and crank from a junkyard. I do agree that you certainly have the opportunity to build the engine the way you want, and if you have a donor engine that you're replacing you can save some bucks, but if you're switching from a 302 to a 351 and you've got to get an intake, oil pan, timing chain and gears, cam, lifters, pushrods,timing cover, flexplates, harmonic balancer, water pump, pulleys, etc.; you're going to be hard-pressed to build a performance engine for less than a crate.

Oh, Mike the 10:1 compression ratio indicates the amount that the air in the cylinder is compressed at TDC and is a factor of the size of the air chamber remaining at TDC. I don't know if the Windsor heads are aluminum, but at a 10:1 compression, you're probably going to have to burn premium gas. A higher compression ratio will raise the temp of your head and aluminum heads will disipate this heat more efficiently than the cast heads.

It has always been my understanding that you want to port and polish your heads and intakes to match for the most efficient fuel and exhaust flow and also to give a smooth chamber to allow for free flowing fuel that doesn't get hung up on the burrs and castings that are typical of an unpolished head. It's typically a cheap way to increase your HP by 10-15% (so I've read).

Just my 2 cents worth,

Slik

 

Thanks for helping me too guys. I am also planning to build myself a 302 or a 351, which ever I can find. I perfer a takeout of a wrecked vehicle, complete. I myself am more applicable towards a 302, but I know that a 351 can get more hp cheaper.

Anways, I will run a carb, because I can run a carb cheaper, than the $600 swap to a MA system.

Can you guys suggest a carb (preferably not a Holley!), and maybe a good cam? I'm not really worried about emission requirements, and it will go into a 1989 F-150 4x4 that currently has a 302SD/Aod. 300hp is my goal.

 

Mike
284 is way too much cam for what you want, by like 15-20 degrees or so. Crane rates it at 2800-5800 RPM and considers it a street race/mild bracket cam. You need reasonable lift (1/4 of your intake valve dia is a good rule of thumb) and moderate duration to keep the bottom end you need for towing. You also want good lobe separation like 112. BTW the 284 Energizer isn't particularly computer-friendly even with MAF control.

There's a lot of cams that will pass emissions without being rated as emissions legal, but don't go radical or you'll never pass. Check out CompCams, Crower and Isky and other Crane cams you'll find one more to your liking.

 

This sounds good... Do any of you have a good engine shop nearby? The folks I've spoken to haven't been willing to talk to me about putting an engine together to suit my needs, and there's no good shop in Clovis, New Mexico (where I'm currently stationed.)
I need someone who'll put something together to work like a truck engine, not a high hp engine that won't do what I want to do...

Thanks,

Mike

 

Check out this site: http://www.amotion.com/
lots of good info about cams and cam selection, no B.S.

 

Good page, StrangeRanger!

I used to have Ford's LeMans cam in my '67 fastback, and the site still has that bad boy available (although the specs are slightly different than what Ford used to print). That screamer was way too hot for a truck, but just thinking about it still brings some grins. A solid lifter small block at full song is one of the sweetest sounds ever!

 

As for the emissions, you are in luck. In our great state of Texas, as far as I know there are only four counties that require emissions testing. Harris is obviously one of them, but any of the surrounding counties are not...and there is nothing that says you can't go outside of the county you are registered in to get inspected. As far as the visual inspection in any of these other counties goes, make sure you have the charcoal (carbon) canister, egr, pcv, blah blah, and make sure the cam you put in it does not have too much lope to it (over about 220 deg. duration at .050 lift ). If it sounds like a solid lift cam, the inspector will tell you to get screwed...had it happen to me. For the motor itself, DO make sure you have it mass air equipped. Any change you make will not mean diddly squat if it stays speed-density. If you want a screamer, this motor sounds great...but if you need low end torque, you are barking up the wrong tree. From the sound of it, the 351 you described is going to live over 3500 rpm's. Go with a milder set of heads, an RV type cam, and a slightly worked stock 351 truck upper and lower intake, and you should be able to pull those pesky tree stumps right out.

 

Thinking about the difficulties I am going to encounter trying to do the 351 swap is making me take a close look at supercharging my 302 once again. The tree huggers are keeping me from really pushing the 385 horsepower 351W idea.

In particular, I'm looking at Kenne Bell's unit for this truck. The kit comes with the necessary computer stuff to make it run with my truck. The unit keeps me emissions legal and gives the truck 285 horsepower and 430 ft-lbs of torque. Should be more than adequate. Only drawback is price ($3500) before paying someone to do the installation.

Any good/bad feedback will be appreciated. I want to convert to hydraulic rollers and mass air before adding the supercharger, as well as going with new headers and exhaust (total price tag around $5500 on the conservative end.) It's almost engine rebuild time, so am going to press for the engine additions first thing.

In particular am interested in knowing how much faster the truck would be 0-60 and how much better it'll pull a 4500-7000 pound trailer.

Thanks for any replies,

Mike