I replaced the auto lock hubs with Warn Standard manuals two years ago & in doing a brake job on my '95 F-150 this weekend, I discovered the large rubber O-ring in one of the Warn caps had apparently failed (although it was intact) & allowed water into the hub. The cap bolts were frozen in place (had to use an impact hammer to remove) and the locking hub assembly was frozen into the outer portion of the hub. Took me an hour of jerking & half a can of PB to get the darn thing out. And this from normal street driving in rain cause I almost never take this truck off-road anymore. I know it was the Warn hub since the rest of the hub assembly behind the locking hub was fine (although the outer bearing was starting to show some washout effects).

Other than simply replacing the O-ring (I no longer trust Warn anyhow), any ideas as to how to seal up this outer hub assembly cap?

 

First: use the warranty & get a new set of hub locks.

Second: make sure you're installing them correctly. It's very rare for a hub lock to simply start leaking, so I have to guess you didn't have the lock body fully installed. If it's not in far enough, the cap can't go in far enough for the O-ring to seal. Since you converted from autos, it's absolutely critical to remove the old stub shaft retainer clip & the washers behind it to allow the new lock body to slide down all the way.

Third: click my signature link & look in the Brakes & Hubs album. You'll find a diagram for each of the 2 possible auto hub locks, showing the splined washer & C-clip that might still be in there. Do you remember if the originals had 3 or 5 screws in their caps?

 

Steve, many thanks for the input. I was hoping you'd reply. I've long since reviewed ALL pics in your SuperMotors files.

I know the hubs have a "Limited Lifetime Warranty" but my problem is, this truck is my only form of transportation (I had to take vacation time to do brake job) & I cannot afford to have it down while I send the hubs back to Warn for replacement. Also, I stupidly threw away the functioning auto lockers when I cleaned house to move from West Kentucky to North Alabama (I know, I know, but I had a lot of trouble with those darn OEM auto lock hubs!).

Based on my history, it is more than possible I installed them incorrectly but in this case, I don't think so. The right side were fine without any leakage & they were installed in exactly the same manner as the leaking left side. And the cap was all the way in and the same on both (only 1/64" gap or so between cap & hub on both sides). But the "O" ring on the leaking side looked fine, not broken or swollen, and it looked exactly like the O-ring on the non-leaking right side.

Mine were definately the 3-bolt auto locks. I had to get the spindle nut conversion kit. Installation went very smoothly. I completely removed old auto lock hubs. Hubs/spindle/bearings were all in excellent condition when I dismantled the wheels to install Warns. I cleaned/regreased the bearings & replaced the inner grease seal. There was no evidence of leakage or corrosion at the grease seal this weekend.

Could it possibly be leaking behind the plastic "Lock/Free" button rather than through the O-ring? In which case, what the heck could I do other than replace assembly? If it is the O-ring, where the heck could I get an O-ring this large (approx. 2.5"-3")? This O-ring is extremely small in cross section. Perhaps a ring that is a bit thicker might work (if I could ever find one the right diameter)? Do you have an outlet you use for odd O-rings?

One thing I did do to address when I buttoned it up was to run a bead of RTV gasket sealer around the small gap between the cap & hub. It's so small, you can't even see it. I don't know this will help, but it made me feel better about moving on to the rears. This turned out to be the brake job from heck, but that's another story.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for your time & advice.

 

You don't have to mail the locks out to get them replaced under warranty - any store that deals in them should trade them on-the-spot. And you don't need them installed on the truck to drive. Just rubber-band a plastic bag over the open ends of the hubs temporarily, & try not to heat up the brakes. With a tight-fitting plastic cap that can take the heat, you could drive indefinitely with no hub locks.

If the **** was leaking, that's where the grease would be coming from, but it's almost impossible for that to leak. Its O-ring is smaller than a dime.

The big cap O-ring is the same for all manual hub locks (regardless of brand), and OE locks were made by Warn, so you can order them from the dealer, or JBG, or... But your new locks will come with new O-rings.

I wouldn't use any sealer on the cap, but I would try to check the hub snout for roundness. I've seen a few that were distorted, which could be why yours is leaking only on one side. The "hub" is on top of this pile:



The "lock" is what goes in the end of it.

 

Thanks, Steve. I hadn't thought of that, but now you mention it, I can see how that would work. The hub obviously plays no part in supporting the vehicle in any manner. I may just pull it out again next weekend & run down to a near-by 4-wheel shop (although I bought it online & long since lost receipt).

However, I took it apart completely & brushed/cleaned/regreased it to the point it now looks good as new before reinstalling. In looking at it now, you cannot tell there was ever a problem except that I had to beat spade-head grooves into the 6 cover retaining torx bolts to be able to get them out with my impact driver. Do they make Torx and hex impact driver tools? Never seen one but I seem to be consistently stripping internal Torx & hex head bolts. Do you have that problem?

Good to know about the universality of the O-rings. If I have any difficulty getting a replacement hub, I'll simply look for another O-ring.

Excellent point about possible out-of-round hub snout. That seems likely in light of the fact that the right side hub had no problems at all and the O-ring looks fine on both. Although, I replaced the complete hub/rotor/lugs assembly with all new assemblies. I'll take my internal telescoping gauge & 3" mike & check the new ones just in case.

Many thanks for tips; much appreciated.

Jerry

 

Well Steve, looks like you called it! I ran out to mike the outer portion of the old hubs (roughly where the O-ring would rest) as soon as I got home & while I'm not a machinist, here's what I found:

I miked 'em around the hub at roughly 45 degree intervals.

Non-leaking Hub Diameters (i.d.): 3.1280", 3.1275", 3.1280", 3.1280"

Leaking Hub Diameters (i.d.): 3.1300", 3.1320", 3.1130", 3.1235"

The darn things are ovals! Shoot! Pardon me while I take a bite of crow! Looks like I maliciously maligned Warn without justification.

To all Warn fans, I apologize for the hasty assumption that the Warns were defective. Always best to look carefully before you leap, I guess. I probably did it when I dropped the old girl in a rut at LBL years ago.

I'll not be making a warranty claim on Warn.

Thanks again, Steve. This pretty much settles it, I'd say. Case solved.

Jerry

 

You can still warrant-out that hub lock, but if you decide to reuse it, DON'T load it with grease. A light coat inside & out is all it takes - any more, and it won't work.




...and next week's winning lottery numbers will be...

 

No, I won't go back on Warn. Wasn't their fault. I already cleaned/regreased/reinstalled the leaky locking hub last Friday. Had to get it back on the road. But I did recall the warning from Warn in the install instructions to only "lightly grease" them, as you said. I did that, so other than really ugly grooves in the 6 cap screws, & some skinned up spots on the hub assembly where I had to jerk on it with channel-locks, I'm hoping it will do OK. I don't 4-wheel it much any more any how.

I don't care much about lottery numbers, but I'd appreciate any advice as to how long I can expect this old girl to provide me with truly reliable (sole source) daily transportation. It's now got 237,000 miles & quite a few of them were pretty rough off-road miles. Other than normal maintenance items (plugs, wires, dist cap, filters etc) I've had almost no trouble with it & it has NEVER failed to get me home. No major engine/transmission work at all. Other that two past brake jobs & two alignments, it's never seen the inside of a shop.

Am I pushing it? Is it time to trade for a Yugo? Or can I look forward to half a million miles (if I can afford to put gas in it at 14mpg)?

 

Longevity depends on maintenance & damage. These trucks are among the most reliably-BUILT machines ever conceived. But they break down when they're neglected or abused, and you can control at least the maintenance part of that. If you want an idea of the engine's internal condition, do a vacuum test, send off an oil sample, & do a compression test.