Well, I've heard the flex-a-lite fans are the best for performance and the best as far as wear and tear on your truck. Thanks alot, a few more mods and I will be happy. Thanks Joe!

 

WTF?!?! Please show the calcs that support your little theory that it takes 15hp to spin something that weighs 11lbs. Quit riding Troyer's sack on this one. The 15hp claims are BS. I have asked everyone that sells a fan kit for supporting dyno graphs and for some strange reason none of them have any that they can share. That raises the BS flag. I'm not saying there is nothing to be gained, but it isn't 15hp.

Better yet, one of you guys who is converting to efans, go do a couple dyno runs to put this debate to bed. Do a few runs before the fan, and a few runs after and post up the results.

 

Well Joe, it appears that you don't haul heavy loads or drive in a hot climate. I can tell you that electric fans DO cycle on and off at freeway speeds when you are pulling a grade with a 5Klb trailer in tow. I can also tell you that the efans stay on much longer than the stock fan (when the clutch would engage pulling the same hill) and temps do not go down as quickly as with the stock fan. After a little research, I found that the stock fan pulls almost 8000cfm at 3000rpm, and the efans are rated at 5000cfm in open air (less when pulling through a radiator - they lose like 20% of their flow pulling through a radiator and AC condensor). I had to slow down on certain hills because the efans could not keep up. I went back to the stock fan and it is cooling fine again. If I didn't have to worry about towing or hauling, I might go back to the efans, but as long as I'm using my truck like a truck then I'm sticking to the stock fan. Well, at least until someone comes up with an efan setup that can move as much air as stock.

 

Yeah, 98 degrees, 90+% humidity here last week. I never drive in 'high' heat. I never tow my 5000 lb boat to the boat ramp when it's nice and hot either. (26-ft Bayliner 2609 Rendezvous, pics in my gallery in my signature)

Yes, they do cycle as they are needed. High load, low speed would definately qualify as a need. Unloaded on relatively flat ground, they'll never cycle as they are not needed. You're talking about a completely different set of operating conditions. Of course they would need to cycle.

So, you're telling me that an electric fan that runs intermittently runs more often than a mechanical fan that runs continuously?? Riiight......

At what volumetric efficiency? How, exactly, did you do that calculation? Please share your source for the data before you send up the BS flag on the Troyers' information.

Admittedly, yes. They even point that out on their web site.
Tom in Tacoma and Cooler from the *other* F150 enthusiast site were deeply involved with the FAL system.

For the article by Tom Colgrove, click here:
http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.c...w_cool_is_this

IIRC, he did the back-to-back dyno runs to compare the two numbers. That was where the 15Hp gain came from. It was the only change he made to the engine, and the repeat run was within a couple of hours of the original. That's about as close as you can get time-wise to a back-to-back comparo.


I never personally did the calculations. I have read the claims by Tom in Tacoma of a back-to-back dyno run that netted 15Hp at the rear wheels by removing the stock fan and replacing it with the FAL electric kit. I vaguely recall seeing the dyno graphs after he proved out the FAL prototype (his truck was their test mule) but cannot find the post at this time. I'm not "Riding Troyer's sack" as you so eloquently put it. As I said once already, before sending up the BS flag on anyone's numbers, maybe you should do your own research.

I personally run the FAL kit. Since installing it, I have, in fact, gained the claimed 2mpg on the freeway regularly. It's not due to my driving style as that has not changed significantly. I have consitently seen 2 mpg better on every tank since. Additionally, I have noticed quicker, firmer shifts, as well as the ability to bark the tires on a hard 3-1 downshift. Prior to removing the stock fan, that never happened. (and I drove with the stock fan for 4 years prior, three of which had the Superchips program installed and set to performance) Sure, it wasn't a back-to-back dyno run, but a seat-of-the-pants dyno isn't going to *feel* a 2Hp increase. It will feel *something* if there is an improvement, and for me there certainly was.

Unlike the Tornado or Throttle Body Spacers, the theory behind the electric fan replacement is sound. Removing rotating mass from the engine will, in fact, reduce the parasitic drag on the engine. That is a fact. How much will vary based on the fan and clutch and its operating characteristics, but 15Hp does not sound like a stretch to anyone that's worked on engines a while. Underdrive pulleys accomplish the same thing: Reduction of parasitic drag. Many drag racers run electric water and fuel pumps for the same reason. Many even run without an alternator just because they can, again, to free up more power to be put to the rear wheels instead of driving accessories. It doesn't increase the powe the engine makes, but it reduces the power the accessories consume, thereby allowing that power to be put to the drive wheels instead.

-Joe

 

By making the statement that the mechanical fan runs continuously shows that you really don't know how the entire system operates. The clutch allows the fan to basically free-wheel when temps are lower, and the clutch engages as temps increase. Now pull your head out just a little further and go back and read it again. With the stock fan, it will cycle on for maybe 30-45 seconds at a time. Watching the coolant temp on my Edge I can see the temps come down. With the efans, they would come on for 2-3 minutes and I could see on the gauge that the temps came down much slower than with the stock fan.

And I got that 8000CFM number directly from a Ford engineer.

You are so full of hot air, it isn't even worth responding to the rest of your mutterings. It is obvious that you have done NONE of this research yourself and you are totally relying on heresay. Now come back when you have something of value to add to the conversation.

 

Easy there. Not everyone wants to take the time to check things for themselves and must rely on 2nd hand information. That is why companies like Tornado are still selling their crap!

Hmmm, that may need to be my new signature!

 

Is it me or do Hotwire and Jeeps & Fords sound like the same person. Has anyone ever noticed that Hotwire magically appeared when Jeeps & Fords got temporary banned here https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...=245565&page=6 If you look through Hotwires posts it seems that most of them come in threads were J&F has pissed people off with his negativity, and then voila Hotwire chimes in...HMMMMMMMMMM. Either way their negativity towards people is amazing but be careful cuz Jeeps & Fords will post your persoanl info all over the internet if he doesn't like you... very mature

 

Nice catch, roush. Three identical IP address matches. More than just a coincidence. Both accounts banned. More expected in the near future.

 

Thanks Steve, those of us who actually like coming here and sharing information and experiences are sick and tired of these trolls. Unfortunately there have been quite a few lately but the dilligence of the moderators and members that care have put a stop to alot of it before it gets too out of hand. Thanks again for maintaining a great site.

Mike

 

There is some interesting points that the two names brought up though, i thought about fans a while back just never did it, i guess ive got my new thing to save up for.

So how much does the F-A-L kit run for? i know the troyer one was like 400ish last time i looked.

-Patrick

 

Indeed, thanks, webmaster. I still feel compelled to respond to the argument though, as he raised some semi-legitimate (although incorrect) arguments.

BSME with concentration in mechanical system design Lawrence Tech University 2002, 2002 LTU Formula SAE team co-leader, Associate of Science in Plant Maintenance, Journeyman's card in Machine Repair here at Ford Motor Company.... But I know nothing about automotive stuff. You just keep thinkin' that.

Think about it: Even if the fan freewheeled to the point of stopping when not needed, the CLUTCH (which is 90% of the 11-lb mass of the assembly) IS ATTATCHED TO THE DAMN ENGINE!!!!! Use half your brain and take note that even if it freewheels, the FAN CLUTCH IS STILL TURNING!! We all know that the fan doesn't freewheel anyways. Pop the hood and spin the fan. Even when cold, there is still some resistance. If there is not, your fan clutch is bad and should be replaced. It's a simple test that's been used for decades to determine if the clutch is bad.

Furthermore, there is a minimum and maximum speed the fan should spin at when the engine is turning at 3000 RPMs. If you have a variable speed strobe light, here's how you can check it:

To translate, I'll have to pull my head out of my ***:

 

Took me a minute...

The factory service manual says that, at operating temperature with the water pump pulley turning 3000 RPMs, the fan clutch should turn no less than 1500 RPMs and no more than 2300 RPMs.

Let me further simplify that: The fan runs all the time. Once the engine is at operating temperature, it should never, ever freewheel.

Please give me a name. I'd love to speak to him personally as I have some other questions about the cooling system on our trucks as well. I've been a Ford employee for over 10 years. I suspect he works just down the street from me. If he no longer works for Ford, please have him contact me at work (if he ever worked for Ford, he will know how to look me up) as I would love to pick his brain about some other issues.

Apparently you're also relying on the word of the 'Ford engineer' you talked to. I'd love to see how that number was determined. Any fan can move 8000CFM if you turn it fast enough. I haven't seen your dyno charts or your calculations either. Bring it on!

Jeeps and Fords' argument sounds like Tom Cruise's argument with Matt Lower about Scientology.

 

Just want to say, "Thank You" for everyone who contributed to this thread. The value of this knowledge, pros and cons, will be used by me in the future. I am just beginning to do mods on my truck. Also, I have a new 25" Feather Light Jayco Travel Trailer and want to be sure everything is cool!

Mert

 

Invest in a nice tranny cooler if you dont already have one on your truck!
-Patrick

 

Yeah, also appreciate the info everyones given, probably gonna go with a FAL fan in a few days once I get my subs. Thanks everyone.