any body done one????????

 

Probably should check out spikes road race section on NLOC. They have a lot of info.
www.nloc.net


I have Brembos on mine. Thanks Spike.

 

I am not sure that the problem with the stock brakes is the lack of ability to grab. It is the lack of ability to get rid of the heat that is generated by the grabing. If you go to more stopping power, you will only generate even more heat. Work on cooling first is my guess.

Andy

 

Upgraded brakes won't improve stopping distance over the stock brakes - for the 1st pedal application. ABS will kick in, so the limiting factor is traction, i.e. tires, tire pressure and alignment. Yet, that's another subject (a good one IMO).

After one hard stop there is a lot of heat and the problem with the stock brakes is the inability to shed the heat. Ducting helps, but 5000 lbs puts a lot of heat into the system and if you have pads that are up to it, you'll boil the fluid quick, even Motul 600. I bled mine 4 times yesterday - what a hassle. Do the math and you'll be surprised by the amount of kenetic energy converted to heat energy when you try to stop or repeatedly slow down 5000 lbs traveling 125 mph. With boiled fluid, you can't grab any more. It's a vicious circle.

One interesting thing is how dramatic a difference there is when you shed 100 to 200 lbs. I decided to keep some of the weight on the rear for Thunderhill for rear wheel traction. As a result, I had, for a lack of better words, little or no brakes for most of the sessions. But, when I removed some extra stuff at Laguna Seca, which is harder on the brakes, I was able to slow down when I really needed to (it's a relative thing when your brakes aren't working well). From now on, I'm shedding weight and dealing with the light rear. Hopefully, I'll have track seats installed before the next event (16 lbs each) and will have the battery relocated. That should make a huge difference for now... (until Ruslow finishes the big brake system - it's REAL close to being done - 8 back to back 105 to 5 mph stops - NO fade, NO unknown problems).

Spike

Andy,
I got your email and sorry I didn't respond. I received so many that week it dropped out of sight and didn't see it until yesterday. I saw the photo and it looks very nice and well thought out. But, with your background, it's what I'd expect you to do!

 

For the type of driving I do, a pad upgrage should be sufficient. I do have a question about the size of the rear calipers. I hadn't noticed how small they were in comparison to the fronts, until I painted them. Is there a relatively inexpensive upgrade on just the rear calipers? Maybe a swap of Ford parts to a double piston type?

 

Andy and Spike are rite.The size of the disc really does not matter.All you are doing if you go with bigger rotors is putting a bandaid on the problem.It is HEAT I did those stops on 12 inch rotors!!But the cooling was greatly improved and not by ducting.But by the total # of vanes and how they work.
The big problem which I have solved was and is ,is the rotor grows with heat build up and cracks because it of internal stresses.
I have solved that by "floating" the rotor in 2 planes X and Y 'as you look at it on the vehicle'.Was and will be a bitc* to do but is the only way to eliminate that.I also will do 2 kits for me and a fellow owner that will have 15 inch rotors since they are the same price as the 13 or 14s As they say bigger is better.But really will mainly be using the 12 inchers for the vast majority of the stuff I do.The others will be mainly for fun and the looks .Stan

 

Don't mess with the rears unless you mess with the whole system! If you increase the clamping force on the rears and they lock up, you'll be in a spin before you can say "sh.."

For looks, funtionality and LOW cost, see:
pads: http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread...threadid=11067
rotors: email ruslow@yahoo.com (inexpensive, functional and cool looking)
and bleed your brakes.

Spike

 

Spike
Thanks, I'll drop Stan an e-mail and see what he has.

 

hmm, i don't really understand spikes explanation for cooling. I noticed today that after lots of driving my brakes were squealing like old women. Any easy cooling ideas? I haven't looked under the truck for any significant amounts of time, but I'm sure I could get some tubes (PVC pipe perhaps?) to route from what seems to be a high air part (lets see, lower bumper?) to the brakes? Make it take a turn around the wheel to make sure it hits the brakes? Sounds like a nice easy idea. Recommendations?

 

Here's a sample idea for inexpensive cooling:


This one was modified and smaller ducting was installed because of tire rubbing when the wheel was turned all the way.

Spike

 

Do you mean don't upgrade there rears with out doing something for the front? Or just leave the rear stock? ie- Napa has ceramic pads for both front and rear, so would that be fine or do would you only say the fronts?

And who's lightning is that in the picture?

 

Interesting info, Spike.

I always knew that relocating things like the battery helped, but I didn't realize that 200 lbs or so could make such an impact on braking.

Looks like I better hop on that battery re-location before the next run at PIR.

 

Well when my rotors are up i know who am buying my new ones from.

 

Captain:
I don't know of that there is much data on pad upgrades, other than the pads I've tested. But, I wouldn't worry about changing the rear pads as much as I would worry about increasing the grip on the rear rotor without proportionally increasing it on the front. Ideally, you want to equally increase the force that occurs at the tire/road interface on all four wheels. Since most of the braking force occurs on the fronts, the rears don't need to be as big. So, most brake upgrades are generally just the fronts. But, what happens when you install bigger brakes on the front is that the rear braking force is decreased because the bias is altered. This isn't a problem yet the rear tires aren't resisting rolling as much as they could without locking up. In other words, the rear brakes aren't working at their optimum. Still, it all comes down to the grip at the road and how the ABS works. If you upgrade the front and rear and have a front pad that won't fade more (relative to peddle pressure) AND the ABS doesn't get confused, the truck won't stop any better than the tires will allow.

Here's something to do for fun: drive in a circle and speed up so that you are at the limits of adhesion (you aren't sliding but you're close). Then apply the brakes - you don't have to do it hard, because the tires should already be at their limits. If the rear end kicks out REAL bad, you either need to increase traction on the rears (adjust tire pressures) or decrease the grip on the rear pad or increase it on the front. Ideally you want a good balance and not an out-of-control spin.

So, the answer to your question about the NAPA pads is this: Put pads on all four and you'll be fine. Don't put an aggressive pad on the rear without putting an aggressive pad on the front. Just so you are aware, I've been running two different compounds on the front and rear and they work great for the street and they are marginal on the track. All in all, a good compromise.

Regarding the photo, I think it's Bolt's Lightning. The photo is over a year old and there have been a lot of changes to his truck since then. I do know that the duct is much smaller now.

WrongdayJ:
I was surprised myself that the limits of the braking changed drastically when I removed the rear lid, bed rug (for safety) and the tailgate. Even with my wife riding along, the change was evident. Then, when I had only 1/4 tank of gas and she didn't ride, the change was more dramatic. This was on road race tires and if I was running the F1's, the braking would have been even better, although it would have been RELATIVE to the tire grip. ABS would have kicked on much sooner and the speeds would have been lower.

With that in mind, I must say that when I ran one session at Thunderhill (Thursday) on the F1's, I HAD A BLAST!!!!!!!!! I plan to run at least one or two sessions every time I go to the track because of this. It was slower, but it was fun and relaxing! So for all of you wondering whether or not you should go on your F1's: GO!!! It's fun!!!!

Spike

BTW, here's why I had to run the F1's. My BFG's after ONE hard session on Thursday (a total of 3 1/4 track days):



Moral of the story:
Do a safety check BEFORE AND AFTER EVERY SESSION!! And, make it a habit.

 

Spike -thanks, kinda what I thought (pads wouldn't make much difference if all 4 are done).

The lower A-arms look nice in that pick

and those are some jacked up tires