How many mods can these Tranny's handle?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Nashville
I just saw the effects of a chip and pulley on a transmission. It was on a tranny that Factory Tech opened up for midsouth bolt and I to see. The clutch packs for 1st,2nd, and 3rd were fried and the seperator plates were also toast. The truck had a chip that raised the line pressure and a 3lb pulley for only 7K miles of its 15K mile existance.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Stanfield NC
It was to my understanding that the "100" in "4R100" indicated that the torque rating of the tranny was 1000. If that is indeed correct, why so many problems with moded trucks that at the most, increase torque by 150 ftlbs?
I do have a little experience in this department. The Roush truck that I had was equiped with the 5.4 and 4r100. I installed a Vortech SC, Superchip flipchip, 42 lb injectors, 80mm mass air meter and 4:10 gears; I went through 3 transmissions within 10,000 mies. I found a dealer that replaced them all under warranty. They said that the 4R100 was crap and that Ford had numerous problems. They did have some questions about my mods, but in the end, they said that they had PowerStroke Diesels producing more torque than I was and that my tranny should hold. They may not be entirely accurate but nevertheless by transmissions were covered. By the way, the new owner has but 22,000 miles on the truck with no prolbems!
I do have a little experience in this department. The Roush truck that I had was equiped with the 5.4 and 4r100. I installed a Vortech SC, Superchip flipchip, 42 lb injectors, 80mm mass air meter and 4:10 gears; I went through 3 transmissions within 10,000 mies. I found a dealer that replaced them all under warranty. They said that the 4R100 was crap and that Ford had numerous problems. They did have some questions about my mods, but in the end, they said that they had PowerStroke Diesels producing more torque than I was and that my tranny should hold. They may not be entirely accurate but nevertheless by transmissions were covered. By the way, the new owner has but 22,000 miles on the truck with no prolbems!
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Mid West
Please read this
This is all easy to understand. These transmissions have to have the Torque Reduction to survive. SLIP and BANGING SHIFTS smoke clutch packs. The torque reducion was designed to give these transmissions .4 sec to FULLY engage before all 500 or so ft-lb of torque is reapplied. Leave the torque reduction in the chip and 98% of the failures go away. That is why SVT had the choice of torque reduction or kill the L Project. I know the Ford transmission engineer that wrote the program and did all the testing.
Andy
Andy
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,985
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Oh, one the rateting, yes the gearbox is rated for 1,000 ft/lbs, and it'll take it, it's true that a stock diesel has more torque than a Lightning and they don't have many problems with them. But, the torque converter more or less doulbes flywheel torque coming into the tranny, so when you raise torque at the flywhell 150 lbs, the gearbox is seeing 300 lbs, on top of the 450 stock, (900 lbs) you're now exceeding the design spec by 20%, so it's not surprising that 150 lbs of new torque is tearing up the box. It can be fixed, but you do need to do something to it, it's not designed for much more than the factory motor.
G
G
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: overthehill , in TAXVILLE= CENTRAL IL :)
hey Factory_Tech
Originally posted by Factory_Tech
Oh, one the rateting, yes the gearbox is rated for 1,000 ft/lbs, and it'll take it, it's true that a stock diesel has more torque than a Lightning and they don't have many problems with them. But, the torque converter more or less doulbes flywheel torque coming into the tranny, so when you raise torque at the flywhell 150 lbs, the gearbox is seeing 300 lbs, on top of the 450 stock, (900 lbs) you're now exceeding the design spec by 20%, so it's not surprising that 150 lbs of new torque is tearing up the box. It can be fixed, but you do need to do something to it, it's not designed for much more than the factory motor.
G
Oh, one the rateting, yes the gearbox is rated for 1,000 ft/lbs, and it'll take it, it's true that a stock diesel has more torque than a Lightning and they don't have many problems with them. But, the torque converter more or less doulbes flywheel torque coming into the tranny, so when you raise torque at the flywhell 150 lbs, the gearbox is seeing 300 lbs, on top of the 450 stock, (900 lbs) you're now exceeding the design spec by 20%, so it's not surprising that 150 lbs of new torque is tearing up the box. It can be fixed, but you do need to do something to it, it's not designed for much more than the factory motor.
G
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Texas
Originally posted by Factory_Tech
Oh, one the rateting, yes the gearbox is rated for 1,000 ft/lbs, and it'll take it, it's true that a stock diesel has more torque than a Lightning and they don't have many problems with them. But, the torque converter more or less doulbes flywheel torque coming into the tranny, so when you raise torque at the flywhell 150 lbs, the gearbox is seeing 300 lbs, on top of the 450 stock, (900 lbs) you're now exceeding the design spec by 20%, so it's not surprising that 150 lbs of new torque is tearing up the box. It can be fixed, but you do need to do something to it, it's not designed for much more than the factory motor.
G
Oh, one the rateting, yes the gearbox is rated for 1,000 ft/lbs, and it'll take it, it's true that a stock diesel has more torque than a Lightning and they don't have many problems with them. But, the torque converter more or less doulbes flywheel torque coming into the tranny, so when you raise torque at the flywhell 150 lbs, the gearbox is seeing 300 lbs, on top of the 450 stock, (900 lbs) you're now exceeding the design spec by 20%, so it's not surprising that 150 lbs of new torque is tearing up the box. It can be fixed, but you do need to do something to it, it's not designed for much more than the factory motor.
G
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,985
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati, OH
Swofford,
Did you check for the external filter I mentioned earlier? I really feel like this is causing a lot of the repeat failures in the trannies, I've seen 3 people who had more than one replacement box and none of them had the filter. Honestly, the 4R100 is a pretty reliable box.
Excited, I'm saying that if you do much to mod your engine, you need to take into account the rest of the drivetrain, it's only designed for what the engine puts out stock and there's not much of a safety margin built in, when you mod, it's easy to get out there where you have no safety margin.
G
Did you check for the external filter I mentioned earlier? I really feel like this is causing a lot of the repeat failures in the trannies, I've seen 3 people who had more than one replacement box and none of them had the filter. Honestly, the 4R100 is a pretty reliable box.
Excited, I'm saying that if you do much to mod your engine, you need to take into account the rest of the drivetrain, it's only designed for what the engine puts out stock and there's not much of a safety margin built in, when you mod, it's easy to get out there where you have no safety margin.
G
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: overthehill , in TAXVILLE= CENTRAL IL :)
thanx factory tech
hey factory-tech, i am getting ready to buy your accumulator mod/factory tech performance valve body, i guess they are the same thing?=200.00 also your bigger tranny pan ,and (filter)? does this kit come with a gaskett? and if i do a street chip and a 2# or 4# pulley with your kit, willl my 4r100 stand up to that as a daily driver w/occasional WOT ?
if you buy the combo is there a discount LOL
if you buy the combo is there a discount LOL
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 343
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From: Texas
Factory -
When I got it replaced the first time they put in and showed me the filter your talking about. I tow around 10-11K every day almost and that tranny just cant take it. I know of several people whose 4R100's have failed, you can look on the L board at the failures, 28K 33K. Im not bashing Ford, but I think their trannys are a weak point I wish they would address more agresively.
When I got it replaced the first time they put in and showed me the filter your talking about. I tow around 10-11K every day almost and that tranny just cant take it. I know of several people whose 4R100's have failed, you can look on the L board at the failures, 28K 33K. Im not bashing Ford, but I think their trannys are a weak point I wish they would address more agresively.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,985
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati, OH
Excited,
I don't sell the kits myself, Sal at PSP does, so the prices he has on the Pan/Filter combo are what they go for. His price is a pretty good deal, the delaer price for a filter is $44.55 and I think the pan goes for about $35. You don't need a gasket, the one you have is reusable. As too your mods, it'll help, but anytime you change a pully you're getting pretty serious about mods, you may want to consider clutch packs later on.
Swofford,
Sorry about your troubles, if you do decide to have the tranny rebuilt, let me know and I'll let you in on some tricks to make it a lot more durable that you can pass on to your rebuilder. Except for the '01 models the 4R100 has a pretty good record, some people just get all the luck, I guess. As to the Lightning failures, we're doing a lot of things to these trannies that were never considered when they were designed, no-one ever thought there would be so much aftermarket mods for such a limited production truck, I think.
G
I don't sell the kits myself, Sal at PSP does, so the prices he has on the Pan/Filter combo are what they go for. His price is a pretty good deal, the delaer price for a filter is $44.55 and I think the pan goes for about $35. You don't need a gasket, the one you have is reusable. As too your mods, it'll help, but anytime you change a pully you're getting pretty serious about mods, you may want to consider clutch packs later on.
Swofford,
Sorry about your troubles, if you do decide to have the tranny rebuilt, let me know and I'll let you in on some tricks to make it a lot more durable that you can pass on to your rebuilder. Except for the '01 models the 4R100 has a pretty good record, some people just get all the luck, I guess. As to the Lightning failures, we're doing a lot of things to these trannies that were never considered when they were designed, no-one ever thought there would be so much aftermarket mods for such a limited production truck, I think.
G