Well, I have decided to have an engine built for my L so that I won't blow up my engine once I install the new PSP supercharger. I have (2 ) options; have Sal build it for me, or go with a local shop. The local shop gave me the following quote;

Short block assy, includes:
- Forged pistons and Forged rods with custom compression ratio.
- Main bearing studs
- race prepped crankshaft
- severe duty main and rod bearings
- balanced rotating assembly (rods,pistons,crank, rings, harmonic damper, flexplate)
- All necessary machining.
- New oil pump, (advise SHM Billet oil pump gears, you supply gears)

Cylinder heads:
- Full port and polish intake and exhaust
- Larger Stainless Steel valves, both intake and exhaust
- Custom performance valve springs with Titanium retainers and cryogenically treated locks
- Custom Bronze-Manganese Valve guides with positive lock "Viton seals.
- Performance valve grind
- Custom grind HCI camshafts
- New timing chains, tensioners, guides, arms, gears, chains.
- adjust camshaft timing to HCI spec
- Gasket set
- core engine
- Labor
- ceramic coatings on piston and combustion chamber,valves,exhaust port
Sub Total $9889.00
(Does not include tax and shipping).
This quote does not include extra port work to the intake tract area. We will have to examine the assembly to see if anything can be done to improve airflow.

options, $ 269.00 Evans water pump and Non-Aqueos coolant. Recommended
Plug wires $140.00- $379.00 depending on brand, Your choice
Custom Billet crankshaft $2500.00, would have to be ordered within one week from now.
I personally would pass on the crankshaft since your engine will already have a forged crank and it should be plenty strong, the same type has been in 1200 hp Cobras without failure.
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I would prefer that Sal build the engine for me, however, I am leaning towards the quote above due to the shop’s close proximity. What do you guys think???

 

hey dave,
10k is too steep for me. thats why im goin with sals most likely. he can build me a brand new short block for under 3k that will handle a lot. plus i will have money for his new blower. i think HCI(thats who your goin with right?) will make an excellent engine but i think its more than we need. just my opinion.

 

what? we have plug wires?!? do these guys work on new motors? do they know lightnings have COP? (coil on plug)

 

For that kinda of $, you should be getting that billet crank AND billet rods

Jeff

 

Seems high even if it included installation.

 

Thanks for the input..... By the way, this estimate does not include installation. Another shop would do the engine swap for approximately $2k........

 

You are getting hosed on the 2k engine swap. $800.00 is the going price around here. And yes, I am talking about a Lightning swap.

 

2000 is the going price around here for a race motor engine swap. Normal price.
noelvm

 

I NEED to move there.I can only get maybe 650 for a swap like that.I guess Ark is way backwards that way.Stan

 

Personally it sounds high to me. Some additional questions I'd ask the guy (and run if they can't answer);

1) HEADS: Flow #'s projected & actual afterwards (for that kind of money you better get both). If they say "We hog 'em out reeel good"...say thank you to Billy Bob & Cooter, and run THRU (without opening) the door. I'd also call someone who really knows 5.4 heads (Shawn Hyland?) and get some background info on what are some realistic flow #'s for a street motor. If you get the passages too big the runner walls will be paper thin, and that can cause problems. Where are they going to place the emphasis on the porting (bowls, chamber, gasket match, etc..)?

2) VALVETRAIN: What size & material. How many angles on the valve job (and what are they)? Most consensus is a 3 angle valve job is only good for about 35-45k miles. 4 angle is less. That will also depend upon springs and rpm range. Springs are important also. If you've ever had the opportunity to watch hi-speed photography of a valvetrain in action, it will make you physically sick--I'm not joking. If possible run a stiffer spring...but not so stiff the springs themselves become maintenance items at 30k miles, etc.

3) CAM: Find out all the #'s here. If they won't quote specs, pass. We're not talking a prostock motor here where the specs are closely guarded secrets, just a healthy street motor. Besides, not many can (re)grind 5.4 cams, you should make sure it will complement your blower motor and compression...and while I'm at it, exactly what IS 'custom compression'?? How are they achieving it (longer rod, taller piston, shaved head, etc..)?

4) MISC. Regarding chains, tensioners, etc., are they straight factory replacements, or aftermarket (like TRW, etc.)? Depending upon the shape of the donor motor, you may or may not need all of this.

5) DONOR MOTOR: Does he have a mileage range in mind (like an insurance company total), or is he just going to get the first thing that comes up? Remember the L's came with the 99 'improved power' cylinder heads, which upped the power from around 235 to 260 HP. I'd recommend starting with the good heads. Hopefully someone else will chip in here and tell you how to tell the visual difference in them.

6) COATINGS: I remember reading an interview with Jack Roush awhile back and they asked him about coatings. He said they'd tried every coating on the market, in every possible application looking for reliability/horsepower and determined the only real applications were on the piston (top/bottom/sides). It sounds like they're wanting to coat even the head combustion chamber, valves, exhaust port, etc...I think I'd pass unless they can make one hellva case for the expense (remember we're talking hot street motor here, not pro mod).

One thing I didn't see mentioned was piston rings. With a blower motor you want to choose your rings carefully.

And lastly, you can save the $140-$379.00 for the plug wires, since you won't need any. <g>.

I'm not knocking the builder, they may be able to justify every nickel...but do you really want all that in a street motor? For that kind of money I'd talk with several customers (he should be able to get you a list) and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions.

Best of luck. I hope it ends up pulling the front wheels off the ground! <G>

 

Roger-

Thanks for the feedback - it sure sound to me like you know your stuff...... I wish I had half your knowledge regarding engines.... I will definitely ask the shop some additional questions....

Dave

 

To add to what roger said, stay away from the coatings. You can coat bearing shells but you have to monitor the size change, valve springs like to be coated and piston skirts only.....NOT THE TOPS.
Unless your a dyno whiz with winston cup background these are the only things that you can coat safely.

Problem is the coatings are so good that if you do coat a piston top it will changs the way the heat travels through the piston and it could changs the way it grows to size under heat.

In other words this shop is trying to impress you with to much wizzy stuff. I would rather they try to impress you with there inspection equipment and talk about holding a tolerance and clearancing, what kind of ring end gaps do they like to see on a street supercharged engine that will see some detonation. These are the kind of questions I would want answered.

Also be careful on the cylinder heads, hoggin out the bowls on these heads could potentialy scrap them out from a power stand point. Ford didn't leave much room to grind in there, these heads need a masters touch.

In other words take it to Sal, he just built the engine in his truck and has proven to me (11.20+) that he knows what he is doing.
Dale

 

Dave, good luck no matter what you decide to do. I don't know much compared to most engine builders who keep on top of it (at least we hope they do <g>), but I've picked up a little knowledge over the years; just happy to help someone else.

How far to go? Is the truck going to be campaigned on the circuit exclusively, a sunday driver, or a DAILY driver. This is the most critical step, making an honest determination of usage. It makes a difference. Set it up 100% as a strong 1/4 miler, and you may encounter problems during that 500 mile weekend fun run.

Personally if you're wanting a hot weekend driver, here's how I'd spend my dime; start with a stout shortblock that includes a stronger rod/piston assy. Balance & blueprint to taste. Throw away the 'torque to yield factory head bolts in favor of some good quality ARP (or similar) fasteners. (Stock crank is forged.)

Don't scrimp money on the heads, but I wouldn't go all the way to a Stage III setup either. Just get them gasket matched, bowl ported and get the casting flaws removed. Spend more emphasis on the exhaust side over the intake. Fold in some good stainless back-cut valves, good springs, seats, seals, and hardware. Stir. Serve with a 3 angle valve job--I said VALVE job <ahem>... Garnish with Longtube headers and X-pipe.

I'd leave the cam alone. That opens one HELLVA can of worms that includes higher stall converters, extensive eec programming, and may very well affect street driveability, not to mention the posssibity of causing the vehicle to fail smog. Mod motor cams are pricey creatures and 1 person in 10 (IMHO) knows what to do with them.

Get a 2lb lower pulley. If you want more, upgrade the blower internals. (Let's see how many 4lb (and higher) pulley motors are still together this time NEXT year.) You can upgrade the blower with Jaguar spec rotors and gain some additional boost and get a coating upgrade (graphite vs. teflon). Upgrade the bearings/bushings in the blower for additional durability/reliability.

Chip, airfilter, throttle body and 90mm mass air. Upgrade the tranny to handle all the improvements by buying a tranny from Factory Tech (Greg). Add in a electric fan/Cobra R water pump/160 thermostat to keep it all cool. These trucks are VERY MUCH at the mercy of heat. Maybe even a 50 shot of NOS to help cool the intake charge.

For desert, serve up a helping of panhard or traction bar(s), depending upon what flavor of road you desire. If the twisties are your forte, throw a roadrace oilpan/windage tray into the shopping cart.

Ok, having spilled the beans on my ideas, remember opinions are like the orfice just south of your belly button. Everybody has one and some stink more than others ...<g>

There's tons more stuff to evaluate and consider; that's one of the reasons to pick a reputable engine builder. Most of us here know what works...a great engine builder will know what works in tandem with other parts; that is a noteable difference.

There's an old saying that bears repeating here..."Making horsepower is cheap--making it (the motor) last is what costs the bucks."

 

Hey D_C , I see your in the bay area, check out www.badasscars.com he's in Sonoma and got a real IN YOUR FACE, TELL IT LIKE IT IS site about engines, and NO , he's not my brother-in-law! worth a look, if your looking... good luck, HP

 

If I had $10K to spend for a new motor:

I would call Reher and Morrison for their 632 big block and swap it in. About 900 Hp.

OR

Buy a complete new motor from Kar Kraft. Swap in a new set of Manly rods, and rebalance. Now you have enough let over to buy Sals new blower. Sell the old blower and accessories, and have a few bucks left over