I'm a little confused myself. It's like beating a dead horse. Let's not forget that just like fox bodied mustangs, there's not alot of Gen1 Lightnings running around that are not modified. 40 years of tuning Windsor engines vs. 5 years tuning Modular engines hmmmm....I'd put my money on the Windsor. Suspensions have not gained that much technology in the last 6 years. All that leaves is the brakes...Brembo's on a Gen1 and your out-stopping a Gen2 big time. Put Brembos on a Gen2 and you still weigh 500lbs more than a Gen1. I own both trucks and I love both trucks. Those that own just Gen2 will just have to get over the fact that the Gen1 trucks were great, and the only reason they have the privledge of driving the new ones. I'd hate to hear them complain about how bad the Syclones and Typhoons out-handled either generation.


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LEFT ON VACATION CAME BACK ON PROBATION

 

i got over it 2 years ago, when we had this same heated discussion. oh , the G1's won back then too

 

yeah, but the typhoon/ syclone's we can all agree, handled worse than both lightnings. Damn fast, but damn horrible handling box stock.

 

Did the Gen1's win in a discussion or on the track side by side with the G2's?

Holeshot:
I'm back in town now. The red truck has been under cover and modifications have been done recently. When they're complete, we'll have to meet so I can show them to you.

Ruslow:
Does your trailer hold both Lightnings?

Spike

 

Hey Spike, the title of this thread is "Gen 1 outhandles the Gen2 in the twisties?"

if i'm not mistaken the twisties have no straight aways for the Gen2's to catch up, so... an .89g beats an .85g . i thought this was about cones, not track times

 

I guess my prior post about how I should have made the subject different doesn't apply or something,

Anyhoo, yeah, .89g beats .85g, but it also depends who you get to do the g's. Let us not forget that even though it might pull more g's, doesn't mean it runs the cones faster. Sal showed that above. If we used his data it's quite apparent that the G2 out cones a G1.

And when I say "twisties" I mean say on a course w/ a lot of twists and turns and str8 aways and blah blah blah. I didn't mean 20 cones in a row. Even so, Ford's published #'s for a '99 and '00 G2 show that it's faster in the slalom, even though it's not better in the g's department.

Let's see some 2001 #'s...where are they?

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-13-2001).]

 

if that's the case, what are your chances of finding a brand new stock Gen1 to go up against a brand new stock Gen2, side by side on a road course? all we have are the #'s and the testimony of the owners of both models. they say one is faster and one handles better, overwhelmingly

 

What are we getting at here? The fact that one FEELS like it handles better, or the fact that one ACTUALLY cones better, brakes better, and goes faster on a str8 away and on a road course stock for stock.

From all the #'s I have seen, the G2 does indeed brake better, accelerates faster, cones quicker, and stops faster. Why is this so hard to believe?

I'm in NO WAY saying that a G1 can't handle. We ALL know they can. But I just completely understand that a G2 is the superior truck when it comes to the above mentioned situations. Sure, add better rims/tire combo, a 380hp motor, and better brakes and the G1 will whoop the G2's ***. It's skidpad performance PROVES it could if given the same setup, but it's slalom, braking, and acceleration #'s says it can't from the factory!

Now, point out to me where your G1 is stronger in ANY of those segments (stock for stock, save for the g numbers on a skidpad) and I'll stop saying that the G2 is the better truck for overall handling.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-13-2001).]

 

I'll have to agree w/ Sal on the timeframe. It just doesn't make sense for Ford to have waited an additional 3 years to put the Lightning on the shelf.

Think about it, most vehicles are developed over a period of 2 to 3 years, now, we realize that when we're dealing w/ similar models such as the 454 was to the C1500, and the L was to the F150 then it wouldn't be hard to throw something together w/ off the shelf parts w/in a year. Chevy developed the 454 in '89 and came out in '90. Ford developed the L in '92 and came out in '93.

By the time the L came out Chevy had upgraded their 454 w/ a 4-speed automatic. C&D did the test between the two and they were w/in .1 seconds to 60 mph, and I believe .2 in the 1/4. Top end was limited on the L to 110 and I believe the Chevy ran up to 120 or 125 before it hit a brick wall of air.

The slalom and G's were handily in the L's favor!

BfB

 

What about tire technology? These 01' F1's are the stickiest tire I ever run. The old tires in 93-95 could not have been as grippy. What about tire roll with 16,17" wheels and higher profile tires? What did the G1 come with?

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01' Silver Bullet
Bought 03/31/01
Tire shredding truck
Prototype ram air 5/03 testing... Works GREAT!
Retrax cover 5/5/01
Wet Okoles 6/04/01
Looking for a chip and pulley soon.

 

Stats can be grossly misleading Bfb. Case in point, take the Vtwin ducati 996SPS and par it with an R1. Tthe R1 is lighter, has more hp, has as good handling, and super brakes. Yet the 996SPS will own the R1 on any track in the world.

If you've never driven a Gen1 at speed for a few months, you're not gonna see our point. I love my Gen2, but it's downright spooky at the edge. The Gen1 is ever so supple and predictable. Perhaps it is because of the gap in performance, but I'd choose my Gen1 over my Gen2 for a run through the canyons.

You really need to have driven both for quite some time to understand the seat of the pants difference. All the numbers in the world won't relate what I am conveying.

 

Last year I had the chance to see the difference between the two. I would also agree that the Gen 1's handle better...IMO

 

When discussing acceleration for the G2, it's very common to read "it's quicker than it feels," or "even though car"X" feels faster, BUT the G2's numbers on the track (1/4 mile) are better. The quickness is deceiving."

Now, the opposite is being stated. The G1 feels faster "on the twisties", therefore it is faster.

I've only read TWO posts so far that I won't dispute regarding the G1 vs G2 (one hear and the other on nloc.org).

Yet, I haven't heard about or read any posts about G1's and G2's at a road course at the same time.

So G1 owners, are there any G1's capable of handling a road course event, or are they all busted, broken, or limited to straight runs on the 1/4 mile?

regards,
spike

[This message has been edited by Spike Engineering (edited 06-14-2001).]

 

There exists information on lap times of Gen1's in Car and Drivers one lap of America database. I'll look around for compro's

 

Twin I-Beam, oh hell ya. Tough SOB's too.