Twin-Turbo X Twin Screw, battle of the boost .
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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From: newark,nj
Of course the twin-screw it's not there, that's exactly what i would like to know. Where the twin-screw would be on the graph.
Here goes more info from Iron Horse's thread:
......in the article entitled, "Battle of the Boost Turbo vs. Roots vs. Centrifugal" by Richard Holdener, in the August 2003 Issue of Hot Rod, on page 32 the author wrote, "This bench-racing philosophy is exactly why I include the power curves. Note that the Paxton Novi 1200 produced the highest peak power, 617 hp at 6,000 rpm. The turbo, on the other hand, produced 599 peak hoursepower. Now forget the peak nunbers and check out the rest of the curve. From 2,500 rpm to 5,700 rpm, the turbo posted significant power gains over the Paxton. Given equivalent vehicles, the turbo would easily motor away from the centrifugal in an acceleration contest. The minimal power gain above 5,700 rpm would not overcome the huge power losses experienced throughout the rest of the rev range. In a street car, most of the driving is done from idle to 4,000 rpm (or less). It is in this rev range that both the Roots and the turbo offer more power than the centrifugal."
On page 34, he wrote, "The turbo offered massive midrange torque production, the only system to exceed 600 lb-ft. Need more convincing? At 4,000 rpm, the turbo was more than 100 lb-ft stronger than either the Roots or centrifgal."
The following data was provided by the article:
Naturally Aspirated stroker Ford 5.0L (no blower)
327ci with 8:4:1 compression ratio
Peak hp: 392 hp at 6,000rpm
Peak torque: 386 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm
Average street hp: (2,900-6,000 rpm): 310 hp
Average street torque (2,900-6,000): 365 lb-ft
Average race hp: (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 352 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 371 lb-ft
with Paxton Novi 1200 (centrifugal)
Minimum boost pressure: 1.7 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 617 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 561 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 412 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 494 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 518 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 542 lb-ft
with HP Performance Turbo (turbo)
Minimum boost pressure: 5.7 psi at 2,500 rpm (Note: The steady load at 2,500 allowed the turbo to spool up quicker than if in a vehicle.)
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 5,100 rpm
Peak hp: 600 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 617 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 460 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000): 564 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 555 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 585 lb-ft
with Holley 174 Blower (roots)
Minimum boost pressure: 4.8 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 8.0 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 535 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 513 lb-ft at 4,600 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 394 hp
Average street torque (2,500 -6,000): 483 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 472 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 497 lb-ft
NOTE: Testing was completed with a Paxton Novi 1200 centrifugal, HP turbo, and a Holley 174ci roots blower on a stroker 5.0L Ford engine measuring 327ci.
Also note that, the author summarizes that the centrifugal and turbo torque production was facilitated by a dual plane intake manifold, yet a single plane intake manifold had to be used with the roots blower. The author summarized that, the single plane intake manifold used with the roots, did not have enough runner lenght to promote torque production.
Furthermore, the author stated that Holley sent the smallest pulley, therefore, the roots was limited to 8 pounds of boost during testing, while the turbo and centrifugal were tested at a max. of 9.5 pounds of boost. The author summarized that if the roots had a pulley that allowed 9.5 psi, he would expect to see an additional 15-20 hp and torque for the roots.
Here goes more info from Iron Horse's thread:
......in the article entitled, "Battle of the Boost Turbo vs. Roots vs. Centrifugal" by Richard Holdener, in the August 2003 Issue of Hot Rod, on page 32 the author wrote, "This bench-racing philosophy is exactly why I include the power curves. Note that the Paxton Novi 1200 produced the highest peak power, 617 hp at 6,000 rpm. The turbo, on the other hand, produced 599 peak hoursepower. Now forget the peak nunbers and check out the rest of the curve. From 2,500 rpm to 5,700 rpm, the turbo posted significant power gains over the Paxton. Given equivalent vehicles, the turbo would easily motor away from the centrifugal in an acceleration contest. The minimal power gain above 5,700 rpm would not overcome the huge power losses experienced throughout the rest of the rev range. In a street car, most of the driving is done from idle to 4,000 rpm (or less). It is in this rev range that both the Roots and the turbo offer more power than the centrifugal."
On page 34, he wrote, "The turbo offered massive midrange torque production, the only system to exceed 600 lb-ft. Need more convincing? At 4,000 rpm, the turbo was more than 100 lb-ft stronger than either the Roots or centrifgal."
The following data was provided by the article:
Naturally Aspirated stroker Ford 5.0L (no blower)
327ci with 8:4:1 compression ratio
Peak hp: 392 hp at 6,000rpm
Peak torque: 386 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm
Average street hp: (2,900-6,000 rpm): 310 hp
Average street torque (2,900-6,000): 365 lb-ft
Average race hp: (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 352 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 371 lb-ft
with Paxton Novi 1200 (centrifugal)
Minimum boost pressure: 1.7 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 617 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 561 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 412 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 494 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 518 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 542 lb-ft
with HP Performance Turbo (turbo)
Minimum boost pressure: 5.7 psi at 2,500 rpm (Note: The steady load at 2,500 allowed the turbo to spool up quicker than if in a vehicle.)
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 5,100 rpm
Peak hp: 600 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 617 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 460 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000): 564 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 555 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 585 lb-ft
with Holley 174 Blower (roots)
Minimum boost pressure: 4.8 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 8.0 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 535 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 513 lb-ft at 4,600 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 394 hp
Average street torque (2,500 -6,000): 483 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 472 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 497 lb-ft
NOTE: Testing was completed with a Paxton Novi 1200 centrifugal, HP turbo, and a Holley 174ci roots blower on a stroker 5.0L Ford engine measuring 327ci.
Also note that, the author summarizes that the centrifugal and turbo torque production was facilitated by a dual plane intake manifold, yet a single plane intake manifold had to be used with the roots blower. The author summarized that, the single plane intake manifold used with the roots, did not have enough runner lenght to promote torque production.
Furthermore, the author stated that Holley sent the smallest pulley, therefore, the roots was limited to 8 pounds of boost during testing, while the turbo and centrifugal were tested at a max. of 9.5 pounds of boost. The author summarized that if the roots had a pulley that allowed 9.5 psi, he would expect to see an additional 15-20 hp and torque for the roots.
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,462
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Just like superchargers, turbos vary widely based on construction and application. A poorly matched turbo will signifcantly underperform a supercharger. Unless you're talking about a specific turbo on a specific motor with a specific RPM band, bench racing them is pointless.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 352
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Originally Posted by Virilha
Of course the twin-screw it's not there, that's exactly what i would like to know. Where the twin-screw would be on the graph.
Here goes more info from Iron Horse's thread:
......in the article entitled, "Battle of the Boost Turbo vs. Roots vs. Centrifugal" by Richard Holdener, in the August 2003 Issue of Hot Rod, on page 32 the author wrote, "This bench-racing philosophy is exactly why I include the power curves. Note that the Paxton Novi 1200 produced the highest peak power, 617 hp at 6,000 rpm. The turbo, on the other hand, produced 599 peak hoursepower. Now forget the peak nunbers and check out the rest of the curve. From 2,500 rpm to 5,700 rpm, the turbo posted significant power gains over the Paxton. Given equivalent vehicles, the turbo would easily motor away from the centrifugal in an acceleration contest. The minimal power gain above 5,700 rpm would not overcome the huge power losses experienced throughout the rest of the rev range. In a street car, most of the driving is done from idle to 4,000 rpm (or less). It is in this rev range that both the Roots and the turbo offer more power than the centrifugal."
On page 34, he wrote, "The turbo offered massive midrange torque production, the only system to exceed 600 lb-ft. Need more convincing? At 4,000 rpm, the turbo was more than 100 lb-ft stronger than either the Roots or centrifgal."
The following data was provided by the article:
Naturally Aspirated stroker Ford 5.0L (no blower)
327ci with 8:4:1 compression ratio
Peak hp: 392 hp at 6,000rpm
Peak torque: 386 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm
Average street hp: (2,900-6,000 rpm): 310 hp
Average street torque (2,900-6,000): 365 lb-ft
Average race hp: (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 352 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 371 lb-ft
with Paxton Novi 1200 (centrifugal)
Minimum boost pressure: 1.7 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 617 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 561 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 412 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 494 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 518 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 542 lb-ft
with HP Performance Turbo (turbo)
Minimum boost pressure: 5.7 psi at 2,500 rpm (Note: The steady load at 2,500 allowed the turbo to spool up quicker than if in a vehicle.)
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 5,100 rpm
Peak hp: 600 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 617 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 460 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000): 564 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 555 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 585 lb-ft
with Holley 174 Blower (roots)
Minimum boost pressure: 4.8 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 8.0 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 535 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 513 lb-ft at 4,600 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 394 hp
Average street torque (2,500 -6,000): 483 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 472 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 497 lb-ft
NOTE: Testing was completed with a Paxton Novi 1200 centrifugal, HP turbo, and a Holley 174ci roots blower on a stroker 5.0L Ford engine measuring 327ci.
Also note that, the author summarizes that the centrifugal and turbo torque production was facilitated by a dual plane intake manifold, yet a single plane intake manifold had to be used with the roots blower. The author summarized that, the single plane intake manifold used with the roots, did not have enough runner lenght to promote torque production.
Furthermore, the author stated that Holley sent the smallest pulley, therefore, the roots was limited to 8 pounds of boost during testing, while the turbo and centrifugal were tested at a max. of 9.5 pounds of boost. The author summarized that if the roots had a pulley that allowed 9.5 psi, he would expect to see an additional 15-20 hp and torque for the roots.
Here goes more info from Iron Horse's thread:
......in the article entitled, "Battle of the Boost Turbo vs. Roots vs. Centrifugal" by Richard Holdener, in the August 2003 Issue of Hot Rod, on page 32 the author wrote, "This bench-racing philosophy is exactly why I include the power curves. Note that the Paxton Novi 1200 produced the highest peak power, 617 hp at 6,000 rpm. The turbo, on the other hand, produced 599 peak hoursepower. Now forget the peak nunbers and check out the rest of the curve. From 2,500 rpm to 5,700 rpm, the turbo posted significant power gains over the Paxton. Given equivalent vehicles, the turbo would easily motor away from the centrifugal in an acceleration contest. The minimal power gain above 5,700 rpm would not overcome the huge power losses experienced throughout the rest of the rev range. In a street car, most of the driving is done from idle to 4,000 rpm (or less). It is in this rev range that both the Roots and the turbo offer more power than the centrifugal."
On page 34, he wrote, "The turbo offered massive midrange torque production, the only system to exceed 600 lb-ft. Need more convincing? At 4,000 rpm, the turbo was more than 100 lb-ft stronger than either the Roots or centrifgal."
The following data was provided by the article:
Naturally Aspirated stroker Ford 5.0L (no blower)
327ci with 8:4:1 compression ratio
Peak hp: 392 hp at 6,000rpm
Peak torque: 386 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm
Average street hp: (2,900-6,000 rpm): 310 hp
Average street torque (2,900-6,000): 365 lb-ft
Average race hp: (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 352 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 371 lb-ft
with Paxton Novi 1200 (centrifugal)
Minimum boost pressure: 1.7 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 617 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 561 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 412 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 494 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 518 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 542 lb-ft
with HP Performance Turbo (turbo)
Minimum boost pressure: 5.7 psi at 2,500 rpm (Note: The steady load at 2,500 allowed the turbo to spool up quicker than if in a vehicle.)
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi at 5,100 rpm
Peak hp: 600 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 617 lb-ft at 4,200 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 460 hp
Average street torque (2,500 - 6,000): 564 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 555 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm) 585 lb-ft
with Holley 174 Blower (roots)
Minimum boost pressure: 4.8 psi at 2,500 rpm
Maximum boost pressure: 8.0 psi at 6,000 rpm
Peak hp: 535 hp at 6,000 rpm
Peak torque: 513 lb-ft at 4,600 rpm
Average street hp (2,500 - 6,000 rpm): 394 hp
Average street torque (2,500 -6,000): 483 lb-ft
Average race hp (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 472 hp
Average race torque (4,000 - 6,000 rpm): 497 lb-ft
NOTE: Testing was completed with a Paxton Novi 1200 centrifugal, HP turbo, and a Holley 174ci roots blower on a stroker 5.0L Ford engine measuring 327ci.
Also note that, the author summarizes that the centrifugal and turbo torque production was facilitated by a dual plane intake manifold, yet a single plane intake manifold had to be used with the roots blower. The author summarized that, the single plane intake manifold used with the roots, did not have enough runner lenght to promote torque production.
Furthermore, the author stated that Holley sent the smallest pulley, therefore, the roots was limited to 8 pounds of boost during testing, while the turbo and centrifugal were tested at a max. of 9.5 pounds of boost. The author summarized that if the roots had a pulley that allowed 9.5 psi, he would expect to see an additional 15-20 hp and torque for the roots.
ok....so whats your point.....
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,273
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by E-luzion
ok....so whats your point.....
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 707
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From: Gainesville, FL.
Originally Posted by NCsvt2003L
Well, with a twin screw I made 670, so you can pencil that in on top of your graph.
Well with Twin Snails Johnny made over a 1000, so you can staple a new sheet of paper above NC's
This thread is like a breast without a nipple....... pointless
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 168
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally Posted by NCsvt2003L
Well, with a twin screw I made 670, so you can pencil that in on top of your graph.
