I checked with my local speed shop regarding mating of transmisssions to our new Lightning engines.
Here are some things I was told.
Any of my 1970 351 Cleveland transmissions should bolt right up, (I have both a C-4 and a C-6 auto, or a 4 speed toploader setup to choose from).
If I were to use either auto, I would probably have to change the flex plate to get the right tooth configuration( 157 vs. 164 tooth). No biggy, as the 70 flex plates should work.
The manual trans flywheel and bell housing should also bolt right up. The flywheel has the correct 28.2 ounce unbalance. This is my transmission of choice and I plan to pursue this route initially, as I would like to maintain the stock Mustang look cosmetically. I am worried about hood clearance, and an aftermarket hood my be required.
Any 1981 and later 5.0 Mustang flywheels are unbalanced 50 ounce and are not compatible with the 5.4.
I will probably have to change oilpans & oil pickups to fit it in my Mustang.
I should be able to verify most of this info when my engine arrives as I have loose bellhousings and transmissions in the garage, and the engine is already out of the Stang.
If this works, the next major hurdle is the electronics to make the engine work properly.
Anybody got ideas?
Also, what kind of fuel pressure are we going to need to feed the new beasts?
I also have a 99 Ford Motorsports catalog which has a wealth of information including a technical hotline to discuss engine swaps at (1-810-468-1356). I'll let you know what they say.
Please pass on any other info you guys come up with.

Lightning Bob

 

Bob,
thanks for the info, i am a novice at this so i'm going to be little help, but will be closly listening. finding a mustang in need of a heart transplant is the my vehicle of choice so far (but that could change).

------------------
99 red lightening,psp filter kit
2-2000 arctic cat zr440 snopro's
built 5-26-99, #1610
2000 super duty v10

 

Evening guys:

Regarding transmissions, Tenderpaw had a good point on the original thread in saying that 2k for a new original Lightning trannie might be the way to go when it's all said and done.

I only had one C-6 vehicle, a former GA. Highway Patrol sedan with I think a 427 or 428, don't remember, it was over 10 years ago and I only had it a couple of months. It, the motor, probably had almost as much torque as a stock Lightning. I do remember it had well over 100K miles and that I abused the heck out of it, doing monster burnouts all over the place just for the fun of it.

Point here is, that a properly prepared '70 junkyard C-6 would probably take the motor ok. Next point is how to make it communicate with the motors computer, a question I cannot now even begin to answer. Or, can we skip that part and hook it up "manually" as was the case on a '70 normal vehicle. A side point, someone here asked me how I was going to hook up to the instruments in my truck. They suggested we might have to install current style computer driven instrumentation from a current truck or car.

Next issue is the special pulley support bracket system that SVT or SVO had to design to keep the whole thing from "torquing" itself apart under hard throttle application.
We also have to design a cooling system that incorporates a transmission cooler, and an intercooler radiator or whatever.

Please understand I am not being negative at all, but there are a lot of issues here. I have even thought of putting mine in climate controlled storage to be used as an eventual replacement for the original motor in my '99 as a contingency plan.

Obviously, Lightning Bob is ahead of the rest of us on what might/should/must be done to adapt the motor to an earlier vehicle so he may have to play the lead role here.

Sorry for the long post.
Bill

------------------
Bill Murray
99.5 Lightning
Oxford White
Bedrug/ARE LSII lid

Tow Package CD Player
Superchip
HobbyTownUSA Graphics
Identical 1/10 Scale Tamiya RC Truck incl. graphics.
Truck interest e-mail:
fastwhitey@myf150.com
4 heavy decals!
Kennesaw (Atlanta) Ga.

 

Bob,

Even though the C-6 or Toploader is probably stronger I would give my vote to the E4OD or the newer version of it. I have had the E4OD in a 95 & 96 Bronco that I have abused much with zero problems. After having an OD transmission, with locking converter, I would never go back to a 3spd auto. Couple the E40D with a Baumann Eng. controller and you could tune the shift points, lockup, and firmness yourself as often as you wanted. I have driven my 96 Bronco all over the U.S with a 4.56 gear, cuising at 70mph. Can't do that with a C-6. :-)

By the way, I called Helms today to get diagrams on the Lightning wiring. They said they wont be available till about the 15th of Dec. I am getting them on a CD. Seems like the price was $200+.

Mike

 

Hey guys
what if a CHIP was used to eliminate the feedback from the tranny so that any trans could be used? After all you will need to get the proper computer for this beast, right?

Just a thought...

------------------
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PFA
'99 WHITE LIGHTNIN'
#0873--1 of 866--
RHINO, Soft cover
LoJack
Valentine 1
Mobil 1
Superchip
Water Wetter
Phantom Boost Gauge
Best ET to date-13.54 @101.51MPH--10/29/99
best MPH to date-102.33

'98 Red Lincoln Continental

 

Hey guys,

Fun things to know and learn...

In a discussion with my tranny guy this week, he told me that the E40D is actually a modified C6 and that it is supposed to be the strongest Ford Auto ever made. I asked what he thought about the 4R100 and he said that it, too is in the same family, just a modified E40D and that it is also a very stout piece. He qualified his earlier comment about the E40D, saying the 4R100 was supposed to be stronger still, but that he hadn't worked on one yet and couldn't say with certainty.

So, it would seem that any of the 3 would probably make a good choice. If I were going to build up a project like has been described here and use an auto, I would probably spring for the 4R100 and alleviate the PCM headaches entirley.

Just a thought or two on the subject....

------------------
Chuck 'Wyldman' Shelton
wyldman@houston.rr.com
Black 99.5 Lightning Build # 1273, DOB 5-14-99, NLOC #315
Best run to date 13.16 @104.8
CD Changer; Tow Pkg.; Lojack; Sal's custom nitrous chip; G-Tech/Pro; SnugLid; BedRug; Invinca-Shield, full kit; NOS KIT 80 hp shot (currently); Clear and smoke Lexan fog light covers; 3M Ti Window Tint; Bel radar detector (shouldn't be an accessory); PowerStack cone filter (a.k.a. supercharger waker upper); American Auto Designs ram air hood; Cal-Tracs traction bars



[This message has been edited by Wyldman (edited 12-10-1999).]

 

Evening Gang:

Well, my motor arrived today by Consolidated Freightways. Unfortunately, on the back of a 40 foot straight trailer with no lift gate, which I specified when I ordered it.As we had no way to get it off/down or whatever, it will be redelivered on Monday.
At least I got to look at it, and a beauty it is!! It was hard to see through the plastic, but I think the build date was 11/17/99.

As a side note, I have already been offered $5,500 for it by a local hot shoe who wants to use it in a street rod. So, from an investment point of view, looks good if I decide I can't use it. He was looking at a 350 Chev crate motor, don't know which version, and said that would cost him close to 4K and not give him anything special. It also had no carb/FI system no exhaust etc.

Assuming I do use it, I agree with Chuck that a properly prepared 4R100 seems to be the best way to go trannie wise. In my case, I would only modify the motor as I am in the 99, chip, filter and exhaust and it would never see a drag strip. I also measured the instrument cluster in the '56, and with minor surgery a Lightning cluster would fit in very nicely. Luckily for me, the '56 engine bay is large enough to take a V-10 or even the Navistar engine, another concept I had, so the Lightning mill will fit no sweat.

Anyone come up with any other ideas, solutions, problems today? I can't wait for Monday!!
Bill

------------------
Bill Murray
99.5 Lightning
Oxford White
Bedrug/ARE LSII lid

Tow Package CD Player
Superchip
HobbyTownUSA Graphics
Identical 1/10 Scale Tamiya RC Truck incl. graphics.
Truck interest e-mail:
fastwhitey@myf150.com
4 heavy decals!
Kennesaw (Atlanta) Ga.

 

Hey guys, Sal here. Some of you have questioned me concerning putting this motor in something other than a Lightning. I have not been able to really dig into the details due to my busy schedule right now, but there are a few obviuos things I thought I would point out. Fist of all, let me say that this is not going to be as easy as most of you think. In order to run the motor properly, you must use the stock Lightning computer, because no other factory or aftermarket system has the functions required to run that motor with the blower. Now, several problems stem from that. First off all, you will have to run the 4R100 transmission. And you will need the 99 Lightning convertor, because it uses 6 bolts rather than 4 like the regular F-series and Exp/Nav. If you try to run a non-electrically controlled tranny, you will have major problems with the computer, and you still have to get a custom flywheel made up. Lightning Bob posted some cross reference info for the tranny and flywheel thing, but I think the guy he spoke to was thinking about the first generation Lightning set up with the 351, where all that was stated was true. Getting off the tranny subject, you have another problem and that is that the computer wants to see certain inputs. You need stuff like vehicle speed, which is fed through the speedo so you will have to run the Lightning's speedo module and cluster, you will have to run the Lightning's COP ignition system, which ties into the PCM, etc. Basically you will need to copy most the Lightning's electrical system in order to feed the proper info to the PCM. This job is by far not impossible, but it will cost a lot of money and be very time consuming. Putting stuff into vehicles they never came in is a specialty of mine, so I know many of the complictaions that come from what seems like a simple swap.

------------------
SAL
13.35@103mph
All stock with PSP 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit

Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html

 

Well Sal, I have been waiting for you to join the topic and now you have. I was sort of afraid that the items you brought up would possibly present some problems.

As I see it now, we may have to spend twice as much as we have invested in the motor we purchased to make it fit something else.

That may leave us with the option of remarketing the motor to someone with deep pockets to do a Mustang/F100 or whatever transplant or, and this is not such a bad idea at all, believe me, to put the motor in secure storage with some sort of engine preservative and either use it as a replacement motor when ours is worn out at a very cheap price or to remarket our 99's in a shorter term as "here it is, and by the way, there is a spare crate motor in the bed" and, the price is xxxxxxx.

Thoughts???
Bill

------------------
Bill Murray
99.5 Lightning
Oxford White
Bedrug/ARE LSII lid

Tow Package CD Player
Superchip
HobbyTownUSA Graphics
Identical 1/10 Scale Tamiya RC Truck incl. graphics.
Truck interest e-mail:
fastwhitey@myf150.com
4 heavy decals!
Kennesaw (Atlanta) Ga.

 

Bill, Its a shame that you have your engine so close and you cant get it. I had to get an engine hoist to get it out of the back of my truck. Seems that Ford has a "special tool" to remove them by hoist. I used a nylon sling that I put under the exhaust manifolds to lift it as I didnt feel confortable lifting it from any of the tapped holes in the heads. I put mine on a 4-wheel dolly so I could roll it around the grage.

Mike

 

Sal, Sounds to me like there would be some money to be made for the person that figures out how to make the engines run in other appications.(hint, hint) I got the engine, now all I need is the Expy, a person to pay to make it run, and a lotta time.

Mike

 

My new engine arrived at the dealership today for replacement in my truck. It also has 11/17/99 tags on it. Seems like a busy day in the neighborhood.I will keep you guys who will be sitting on these for a while posted as to any problems.

 

Just got off the phone with Blue Springs Ford to find out where my engine is as I have heard nothing from CF and should have received mine before Bill as I'm much closer. I told Rick at Blue Springs Ford to go out and procure some of the Lightning transmissions and PCM units to offer as a package deal to the people buying these motors. I did more research over the weekend and came up with similar conclusions as Sal.
The guy I spoke with at Ford Motorsport tech hotline were of little help, stating that they had not yet even considered a swap like I was undertaking. He did tell me the bolt pattern is different on my old transmision than on the 5.4. Anybody price the trans and PCM yet? Sal' I know you had the part number for the transmission. Can you tell us what it is?

Thanks
Lightning Bob

 

Hi Gang:

Mine arrived 2nd time today and is now in the RC Car section of my store, sitting on it's pallet with a big sign on it saying "the ultimate RC motor". It has been there since about 10:00 this morning and the reaction has been absolutely astounding. My RC customers love it, non RC customers crowd around it and drool and I have gotten several more offers for the motor.

While this is a bit far fetched, I spend $6000 a month on advertising (cable TV, Yellow Pages and a lot of other stuff)and I am thinking the 4K I spent for the motor may be one of the best advertising things I have stumbled across for a long time.

On the other hand, Lightning Bob has a really good idea in getting the dealer to do a deal on the transmission, PCM and a few other goodies. I priced the missing pullies, PCM and a few other pieces that are obviously missing, and the part piece price is a bit prohibitive. Mind you, there is no obligation on the part of the dealer, but he/she could be a real hero to the purchasers of the basic crate motor if they would/could come up with a secondary package price for the stuff to complete the package.

As one of my customers said, it is the ultimate paper weight!!!!!!!

------------------
Bill Murray
99.5 Lightning
Oxford White
Bedrug/ARE LSII lid

Tow Package CD Player
Superchip
HobbyTownUSA Graphics
Identical 1/10 Scale Tamiya RC Truck incl. graphics.
Truck interest e-mail:
fastwhitey@myf150.com
4 heavy decals!
Kennesaw (Atlanta) Ga.