does anybody have Stan's email or phone contact? Need to talk to him regarding his statement on another tread I started regarding Lightining alignment. How caster & camber has specs and can be adjusted on solid rear axle? If anyone else knows, please chime in? Need to have alignment done ASAP. If fact, feel free to call cell 770-337-1983 if you have the info. I'm putting on 20" Boze & Nitto 404 tires this morning. I need a alignment bad anyway even if I weren't. Don't want to wear those new tires needlessly! Thanks for any help!

 

you dont need a rear alignment. if anyone tries to sell you one, run.

-Kimball

 

Camber (tire tilting in or out at the top, compared to the bottom) is not adjustable on a solid rear axle. It CAN be off, but that is usually caused by damage like a bent axle tube (or shaft). Think back to the dune buggies with VW engines that always looked like the axle just broke /--\ compared to a normal vehicle |--|. The camber is extreme on the VW as a preset for its travel range, due to the fact that it is IRS, not solid axle.

Caster is not even present on a solid axle rear, as there is no pivot point. Caster is the angle of the tilt (compared to vertical) that the steering pivot runs through. Think of old straight front axle beams with kingpins or 4x4 front axles with the cast "C" on each end for the knuckle to bolt to. Caster means that the top pivot point is not directly above the bottom - could be tilted forward (think shopping cart front wheels) or tilted backward. Caster is adjusted to affect how the front wheels center themselves and track down the road). Not enough caster will cause wander in the front.

Unless the rear wheels can turn for steering, there is no caster in the rear.

Any shop that tries to sell you adjustments to these two "settings" on a live axle rear (non IRS) is a) too stupid to be doing the alighment anyway or b) assuming you are too stupid to catch them with their hand in you wallet. In either case, find a more knowledgeable, or more honest shop to invest your money in.

Herb

 

RUSLOW replied on previous thread that there was? He seems to be acknowledged expert on suspension and brake issues? Ok, only front end alignment.

 

I didn't see the previous thread, so I can't comment on it. Stan is THE MAN when it comes to suspension, braking and general vehicle attitude for sustained high speed. Tim is also quite a knowledgable one on the suspension side of things. There are many other here too.

Everyone has some nugget to offer, some are gold, some are turds - you just have to sift through them and separate them.

The other thing to keep in mind is that every truck user/modder/tuner is looking at the truck through a different set of eyes, with different uses and goals in mind.

What works great on an open track may seriously elevate tire wear on the street or not allow weight transfer at the tree. What works for hooking at the dragstrip may cause a rollover on the road course or a poor ride on the street.

Stan's viewpoint is usually always a good, although extreme one. At the speeds he runs, if it's not right, he may not survive.

Just some food for though - good luck finding the gold

Herb

 

Jake,

Is this the thread you're refering to?

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...=&pagenumber=2

If so, Stan is saying the same thing. The only 'adjustment' for camber on the rear axle is to bend to tube.

But, like I stated above, at 180+ MPH, EVERY little thing matters. There is an enormous difference in setting up a vehicle to run 180+ blasts compared to one that may see 100+ a couple times a week.

I try not to discount anyone's opinion - I compare their frame of reference against mine, and weigh the information accordingly. It may be prefectly correct info, but completely wrong for my application.

Herb

 

What I said was that there isan alignment setting for the rear.But for well over 99.7% of the shops it is NOT adjustable.Since you need to have special equipment to do it rite[plus someone that KNOWS how to use it]and most of them are dead do to age.Since it is from the straight axle era.I was taught at school on the basics and was fortunate enough to have one of those 'old timers' in one of the shops I worked at and he showed me the 'art' and let me tell you it is an art!I found all the equipment[shop did know know what it was] for next to nothing.So I CAN do that type of work.But in the real world IF it is that far out more than likely it was hit so repalcment is the only way to go.
You CAN camber the rear but there lies more than just bending the tubes.ie.must have the axle splines 'crowned'and other things to.
As for myself I run an IRS system that I bought[only one everymade] and reworked it since it was more for the whow factor than the performance one.And it has all three setting for itcamber toe and caster[caster not being a 'normal' angle on the rear of factory set ups] Stan


PS look for a post in a few days on what the truck has under gone over the winter!

 

Bated Breath !!!!

 

Put 20" Boze wheels & tires on yesterday and took to dealer for alignment. Before it was put on machine. the service writer SVT coordinator (who of course had no vested interest) told me I would need some kind of "cam kit" to make adjustments to reach either "factory lightning specs" or "owner preferred specs"? What a suprise with labor (including my SVTOA discount on labor $60hr opposed to $80 and 25% parts discount) would be around $300? Thought this just another attempt to pad the bill, especially since he claimed "not that much adjustment possible on stock front end"? Thought there would be sufficient amount of caster, camber, and toe in stock suspension?

While on laser machine, tech said right side was out about a degree, explaining the inside extreme tire wear I was getting. (He didn't see old tires--only the new). Found a friend of mine who is SVT tech (had L) to confirm. He sorta confirmed, but said "they could only do 1, not 4 to bring it into spec" Service writer and align tech perturbed, but they did it and including alignment cost only about $100.

I have someone is qualified and can do other 3 corners for a lot less money. Question is, should I have full 4 corner kit?

RUSLOW, there are a few "old timer" alignment shops with good reputation. What questions do I ask, including what specific kind of equipment do they use?

Thanks to all who've responded!

 

Jake,

Cam kits are required for both front upper control arms. Search here for "cam kit alignment" and your bound to find a picture of them.

The mounting bushings for the upper control arms have round holes, while the frame side has elongated horizontal slots, with guides on each side to hold a shim in place. The bolts for the uppers are ground down on one side to create a D shaped profile. In the factory setup, there are rectangular shims with the D-shaped hole punched in the correct spot for a certain offset in the slotted frame hole. These have no adjustment, but are available in difterent offsets.

The cam kits each contain two round washers with offset D-shaped holes to replace the factory shims. The bolt head can be rotated in an eccentric motion that will cause the mounting hole in the the upper arms to push out or pull in within the sloted frame hole, moving the relative position of the upper ball joint steering pivot.

Only 2 cam kits (one for each front wheel) are required, as there is no similar adjustment for the rear.

Herb

 

Undoubtedly my misunderstanding when told 4 kits needed. I assumed kits were for all 4 wheels, not 2 for each front!

 

It is not so much what you ask them it is what they ask YOU!On performance vehicles I ask them how they drive and what type of driving they do.Like hiway or turns and align the car thru what they have said.using the factory spec as a starting point and trying to stay within that spec but more to the left or rite of it depending on their driving style.sTan

 

cant wait to see what you have got going Stan

 

Didn't mention if there was any type of older equipment these "old timers" might be using that would get beter results per you earlier post. This is a daily driver, no drags or corner carving. If there is no specific answer, feel free not to reply.

Stan, I appreciate your help and good luck with your truck this year!

 

If you are just driving 'normal' roads then I would run rite at .5 neg, 6+ caster,and 1/16 total toe.That would be what I would align to and have on several other lightning.
the old timers are from an era were there were not many alignment specs and the roads were much less than now.So they had to align to the conditions the cars were running in.In other words the spec for align ment was just a reference point and not always worked.Stan

PS the equipment only measures the angles its the person who operates it that makes the diff between an good align and a bad one.