Uh, yeah. With the legedary successes of Porsche is endurance racing and all of the high-tech babble they throw at you in the product lit, one would expect that no finer engine can be found.

Now, browse the Porsche classifieds. It is very common to see sub-100K or even sub 50K cars with new engines.

The Boxster engine may be an exception, as it shares Ward's Top Ten honors with the Lightning engine. No other Porsche engines have made the list in the last ten years.

 

Bad news on the Boxter engine: Porsche replaced quite a few failed Boxter engines in the first couple of model years, but did so under a quiet warranty approach. My spouse worked for the parent company at the time, and brought home the horror stories. Really changed my mind about Porsche too.

 

Took it easy on my L for the first 1000 miles... now at 113k on the same motor, she is still running the low 12's that she has always run.

 

Well for what my 2 cents are worth as an experienced *Ford* powertrain engineer with 6 years experience. (WHich I know means didily squat to some of you guys)
YES break in *ANY* new motor with care, low loads, & varying rpms. We use modern materials and processes to help counter all you bone heads who DON'T break in all the cars components properly. Brakes, tranny, motor, ect...

BTW: "The fact is that modern engines don't really "break in" like older ones."

ha ha ha ha LOL.... I guess your saying the basic laws of thermodynamics no longer pertain to the modern automotive engine? Ya baby, just ignore all those pesky F-A-C-T-S.


This place is a riot somedays, Rich

 

So you are saying to vary rpm's and even go WOT a few times, correct?

Or just take it easy the whole first 1000 miles, never taking it up to full boost, or what?

I just really want to know what I should do w/o harming the engine by running it too hard, too early, and I do not want to not run it hard enough so the piston sleeves don't fit perfect like that other guy said.

Thanks

 

No. You are mischaracterizing my statements. My point is well explained and, being an engineer, surely not lost on you. In the old days, breakin was critical. With modern engineering methods and materials, it is less critical than it used to be.

I know how to bed pads and season rotors. I know not to drive from the dealership and set the cruise control on 65 for four hours.

But if breakin were as critical as it was in the old days, it would be gone over with a new vehicle purchaser -- like it used to be. To an engineer, it still may be a fascinating topic. But to a consumer, it is all but forgotten.

 

I broke mine in easy for the first 1,000 miles. I varied speeds (city speeds and turnpike/freeway speeds even going to 90mph) but never did any WOT. I followed Fast Gators recommendation which is excellent and changed the oil and filter at 500 miles then 1,000 miles and just a few weeks ago at 1,500 miles. I will now change it every 3,000 miles.

I would note that I have yet to see any proof that taking it easy to first 500 – 1,000 miles has any affect on what horsepower you will have as in gaining any or losing any. I would think that if the rings had not been seated correctly that their would be evidence of oil lose more then what is acceptable. I believe, but could be wrong, that losing 1qt of oil in 3,000 miles is considered acceptable.

In all the vehicles I have ever owned I have never came close to losing 1qt for every 3,000 miles. As a matter of fact the last 3 – 4 vehicles I owned which were new and broke in the way I broke my L in never lost a drop of oil in my oil change intervals of 3,000 miles thereby proving I never had any problems with rings being seated correctly.

You also have to remember that two people with the same vehicles, same motors and the same miles etc will never have the same horsepower. One may have 10 – 15hp more then the other because there motors are mass produced and there is always going to be tolerances. That would even be true if you had the same professional engine builder build two identical motors and blue printed them…

 

When a new truck comes off the assembly line it goes to the roll booth and test track before final inspection and shipping. Anyone work for Ford who knows how hard the vehicles are ran in the roll booth and test track before shipping.? I know that bimmers are ran at varying speeds from easy to wide open, in roll booth, to test the engine and all systems prior to test track and shipping. I know this is only for a few minutes, but most vehicles have been ran wide open prior to us driving them. I agree with varying speeds during break in. Wide open throttle bursts won't hurt anything, just don't do it for extended periods of time during break in.

 

since I like BMW's

the X5 4.4 has a little light on the dash.
when you start the vehicle the light comes on, one it turns off you can then drive the vehicle.
Why?
cold starts in the morning!
some people start their cars in 10 degree weather and then immediately drive it.
Food for thought. the top of the cylider and the head warms up very quickly, lets say it is 150 degrees. The block on the other hand still has ICE on it from last nights snow.

Do you think that Hot and COld metal will have some different variences?

Now allowing an engine to warm up is different than how to break in an engine.

Contact PSP, JDM and JLP, ask them, and then let us know.

 

That's where I heading now, to see BMW's all night. Quality for the SC BMW plant. Everyone have a good evening.

 

That's why I installed a remote starter, yet live in room temperature SoCal.

With the motorcycle, I crank it up and have a smoke while it's warming up.

 

Yes
How in the world do you derive "WOT a few times" from me saying "low loads"? I'm not flaming ya here... Just trying to make a point. Engineer minded humor I guess?
I do understand your points as stated in the later posts on this thread.

And yes I did pull it out from the rest of your points. But for a reason. I think it's important to call out statements like this:
"The fact is that modern engines don't really "break in" like older ones."
IMO people will read things like that and then go glossy eyed to the rest of the points you and others have stated. Not everyone has common sense either. There are people who will/have treated thier new car as if it had been properly prepared by a full on engineering team. Many times it's on the test drive too! (see the funny story at the bott)


Fact is that not all new car engines (and everything else in the moving/machined part world) has built in safeguards to increase longevity.
Seems to me your banking on the preception that modern OEM motors are "better" than they used to be. I'm banking on my first hand experiences. And yes I'm an engineer. And yes engineers like to play it safe.

Tim I've personally signed production deviations because certian rotating components were not processed properly. (lack of proper oil imregnation & improper heat treating specifically) This means I made a calculated life expectancy vs warrenty claim analysis of what the odds were we'd see them come back if failed once deliverd to the end customer.
Fact also is that top level engineering managers do this from the get go. NOT ALL NEW ENGINES can be covered in your statement

"With modern engineering methods and materials, it is less critical than it used to be."

Simply, you & I will never know what effects will hapen if we are hard on a new motor.


Funny story:
Chevy had a very high - low milage - cam shaft failure on vetts. Doing thier research as good boys do back at warrenty they narrowed it down to one area in a particular state! Turns out this one particular dealership wanted thier vetts to always immeadiately start when that all important customer hopped in.
So thier policy was to have the sales weenies.. er I mean the sales staff start them every morning. well... the idiots not only started them but made them rap a bit by reving them. In turn starving the top end with oil and making a HUGE thermocycle to boot.

So.. so.. many people focus on statements from a percieved "good source". Then run with it like it was thier shield against problems. That's all I'm trying to say.


Rich

 

CarolinaL

We impregnate the "running - sliding" surfaces with a special process just for this intitial test. BUT only on the motor lines that will see it. And this coating will be gone in very short order too. Many times it's after the 1st few thermocycles.

I've personally designed a process where a very special wax is used to hold something in place. Once the motor is up to temp the wax melts and the same protection is no longer in effect.

The roller tests are taken into account and you really can't throw that generic blanket on every car.

That whole precess is called "pass through sensitivity"

Rich

 

Rich, you sneaky devil. Love how you threw me a "good source" bone.

I think that we have reached the equilibrium point. I made my point with loose speech, you countered with loose speech, then we fleshed out the details showing that we really agree.

Do me a favor -- check out this web page and let me know what you think:

break-in secrets

 

The more time I spend on this board the more respect I have for all of your experiences.

I think I would like to pipe up and repeat that in the FACTS I refered to I covered what you said without having an engineering degree.

No put down intended.

The way I understand it is that todays engines are built to closer tolerances and one of the many things they have changed over the years is going to the finer honing of the cylinders.

If you don't get the sharp edge's of the cylinder wall hone and the sharp edge of the piston ring to conform to each other early.

Then it will take much much longer to wear in and sometimes not as well. It is like loosing the bite in a metal file or hacksaw blade. You eventualy cut through but it takes longer and is a lot more work.

The 5W-20W semi synthetic oil that these engines have called out for spec. does a great job of keeping this wear under control.

I cringe more reading posts about what kind of oil people think they should use rather then how they break in there drivetrain.

IMHO it is important when doing the WOT burst to back of the gas and let the engine run out to slow you down. This utilizes the high vacum condition to actually suck the mirco metal debri you just created and force it out the exhaust without staying in the system.

I ain't no engineer and I never went to Harvard but I have picked up a lot of information over the years by a lot of very learned folks and have hands on back to back testing under my belt, and cash spent to.

I always wonder why no one talks about TOTAL SEAL gapless piston rings? I have used them for years with incredibale results.
http://www.totalseal.com/howdoo.html

I can't spell worth a darn and waste a lot of time looking for my truck key's and work shoes but there is some good info floating around that I manage to retain randomly.
PEACE