Ford to suspend SVT lineup
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,297
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From: New Hampshire
no it wont hurt ford at all.The majority of people who WILL afford the srt 10 are not going to drive it around daily or race at the dragstrip.with only 2500 being built, and the majority of them going to be bought by viper owners and collectors,it wont touch the street market other than an occasional sighting once in a GREAT while.With the price tag the way it stands and with markup over and above,it pretty much alienates the general public from buying them.Think of how many cobra Rs you see driving all the time..................0
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: TEXAS
There was another article recently posted that stated similar info BUT said the SVT focus was dead.
As far as a comparison to the Cobra R - there will be 8 times as many SRT10s made - THey cost less before the $$$ markups and they have aircondistioning and radios that the cobra R didnt. Not many folks are going to tool around in a cobra R with NO AC - Radio or back seats just to hit the grocery store....
Hi Perf Marauder would be cool
Doug
As far as a comparison to the Cobra R - there will be 8 times as many SRT10s made - THey cost less before the $$$ markups and they have aircondistioning and radios that the cobra R didnt. Not many folks are going to tool around in a cobra R with NO AC - Radio or back seats just to hit the grocery store....
Hi Perf Marauder would be cool
Doug
! 
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: Mi.
John Coletti & Tom Scarpello shouldn't have used all the budget to build the GT. Then again, when Bill Ford says to build it! You build it.
The truth! The GT took up the funding for the other projects. Ford is out of $$$ and are in a bad financial position. Let's just cut to point and cut out the smoke screen. No $$$ in the SVT pot...
The GT could have been pushed back another 6 months. With a price tag of $145+K and low production figures. Ford isn't going to break even on the GT. That is going to be the 06 Lightning and Cobras task. They need to recoupe some of the R&D on models with higher production. That's why we know that some of the GT's powertrain is going to be in future models.
Bill Ford wanted to be credited with bringing back the GT!
Something history can look back at and remeber him by. It won't be the outstanding management team
he put in place when Nasser was asked to leave. My stock is still in the chitter.
Ford outsourced much of the GT project to Roush. Maybe when the company stops outsourcing their engineering and pull it in-house they can take better control and make people responsible for their work and not promote them for a vehicle line with recalls and high warranty repairs.
We here that have been on the board a while, know Fords brochures don't list the quality issues when you buy a SVT or Ford product.
Piston slap.
Plug ejection.
Fog Light lenses.
Lack of quality control on machined engine parts.
Oil consumption - due to poorly designed PCV system.
IRS vibration and clunk. 99-01, 03-04 Cobra.
Engine ticking-Mach and 03 Cobra. Lack of heat disipation on drivers side head #8cylinder. Valve's get hot and tick.
My truck has these some if these quality issues im correcting out of my own pocket to fix the problem right!
Warranty denials. People get denied if they have taken their car or truck to the track. Ford calls it abuse. Here are a few qoutes from their 2001 sales brochure.
"BENEATH THE HOOD of your new Lightning beats a supercharged, single-overhead-cam 5.4L Triton V8 engine, which is about to propel you into the world of high-performance motoring."
"Producing an amazing 380 horsepower and 450 foot-pounds of torque, this super truck is equally at home on the racetrack."
"It also will launch with aggressive assurance at a drag strip, then turn around and carry an 800-pound payload, tow a 5,00-pound trailer."
This is just some ammo for anyone who has a lawyer and a warranty denied suit against Ford.
This new flag ship car is not going to fix the problems at Ford. It used up resources and Few Ford people were involved on the project. The project was given to Roush and Carrol Shelby was a consultant on the project. It's over budget also..
If SVT would have been on the ball, they could have stopped production on the L in 02 and put the rest of the resources into fixing the IRS issue in the 03/04 Cobra and put the SVT Focus turbo out to take on PVO's Dodge's neon. Not to mention some exclusivity. There are L's everywhere here in lower Mi.
Ford Management at it's best. Build a really expensive sport car (GT) that is limited and put the projects that make the $$$ for the company in the closet. This just shows how bad things are at Ford MO CO. IMHO!!
Bill is running his auto company like they run the Lions. Put incompetent management in and you get job cuts and lose quality and the #2 auto standing. Toyota is #2. Ford has the highest amount of V.P.'s in the auto business.
They cut jobs at the bottom and save the high dollar useless guys at the top. That's why we have no SVT products or employees to catch quality issues. Build the products and let the public do the R&D. Hey, management! Can you say TIMBER?
Ok, done venting. Did I say working there under the stress can give you the "I don't give a chit attitude." when the work is pilled up to the crack of your a$$ and management gives you no direction. Just do it and have it on my desk by 8:00am.
The truth! The GT took up the funding for the other projects. Ford is out of $$$ and are in a bad financial position. Let's just cut to point and cut out the smoke screen. No $$$ in the SVT pot...
The GT could have been pushed back another 6 months. With a price tag of $145+K and low production figures. Ford isn't going to break even on the GT. That is going to be the 06 Lightning and Cobras task. They need to recoupe some of the R&D on models with higher production. That's why we know that some of the GT's powertrain is going to be in future models.
Bill Ford wanted to be credited with bringing back the GT!
Something history can look back at and remeber him by. It won't be the outstanding management team
he put in place when Nasser was asked to leave. My stock is still in the chitter. Ford outsourced much of the GT project to Roush. Maybe when the company stops outsourcing their engineering and pull it in-house they can take better control and make people responsible for their work and not promote them for a vehicle line with recalls and high warranty repairs.
We here that have been on the board a while, know Fords brochures don't list the quality issues when you buy a SVT or Ford product.
Piston slap.
Plug ejection.
Fog Light lenses.
Lack of quality control on machined engine parts.
Oil consumption - due to poorly designed PCV system.
IRS vibration and clunk. 99-01, 03-04 Cobra.
Engine ticking-Mach and 03 Cobra. Lack of heat disipation on drivers side head #8cylinder. Valve's get hot and tick.
My truck has these some if these quality issues im correcting out of my own pocket to fix the problem right!
Warranty denials. People get denied if they have taken their car or truck to the track. Ford calls it abuse. Here are a few qoutes from their 2001 sales brochure.
"BENEATH THE HOOD of your new Lightning beats a supercharged, single-overhead-cam 5.4L Triton V8 engine, which is about to propel you into the world of high-performance motoring."
"Producing an amazing 380 horsepower and 450 foot-pounds of torque, this super truck is equally at home on the racetrack."
"It also will launch with aggressive assurance at a drag strip, then turn around and carry an 800-pound payload, tow a 5,00-pound trailer."
This is just some ammo for anyone who has a lawyer and a warranty denied suit against Ford.
This new flag ship car is not going to fix the problems at Ford. It used up resources and Few Ford people were involved on the project. The project was given to Roush and Carrol Shelby was a consultant on the project. It's over budget also..
If SVT would have been on the ball, they could have stopped production on the L in 02 and put the rest of the resources into fixing the IRS issue in the 03/04 Cobra and put the SVT Focus turbo out to take on PVO's Dodge's neon. Not to mention some exclusivity. There are L's everywhere here in lower Mi.
Ford Management at it's best. Build a really expensive sport car (GT) that is limited and put the projects that make the $$$ for the company in the closet. This just shows how bad things are at Ford MO CO. IMHO!!
Bill is running his auto company like they run the Lions. Put incompetent management in and you get job cuts and lose quality and the #2 auto standing. Toyota is #2. Ford has the highest amount of V.P.'s in the auto business.
They cut jobs at the bottom and save the high dollar useless guys at the top. That's why we have no SVT products or employees to catch quality issues. Build the products and let the public do the R&D. Hey, management! Can you say TIMBER?
Ok, done venting. Did I say working there under the stress can give you the "I don't give a chit attitude." when the work is pilled up to the crack of your a$$ and management gives you no direction. Just do it and have it on my desk by 8:00am.
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From: Here
Originally posted by Thor01
John Coletti & Tom Scarpello shouldn't have used all the budget to build the GT. Then again, when Bill Ford says to build it! You build it.
The truth! The GT took up the funding for the other projects. Ford is out of $$$ and are in a bad financial position. Let's just cut to point and cut out the smoke screen. No $$$ in the SVT pot...
The GT could have been pushed back another 6 months. With a price tag of $145+K and low production figures. Ford isn't going to break even on the GT. That is going to be the 06 Lightning and Cobras task. They need to recoupe some of the R&D on models with higher production. That's why we know that some of the GT's powertrain is going to be in future models.
Bill Ford wanted to be credited with bringing back the GT!
Something history can look back at and remeber him by. It won't be the outstanding management team he put in place when Nasser was asked to leave. My stock is still in the chitter.
Ford outsourced much of the GT project to Roush. Maybe when the company stops outsourcing their engineering and pull it in-house they can take better control and make people responsible for their work and not promote them for a vehicle line with recalls and high warranty repairs.
We here that have been on the board a while, know Fords brochures don't list the quality issues when you buy a SVT or Ford product.
Piston slap.
Plug ejection.
Fog Light lenses.
Lack of quality control on machined engine parts.
Oil consumption - due to poorly designed PCV system.
IRS vibration and clunk. 99-01, 03-04 Cobra.
Engine ticking-Mach and 03 Cobra. Lack of heat disipation on drivers side head #8cylinder. Valve's get hot and tick.
My truck has these some if these quality issues im correcting out of my own pocket to fix the problem right!
Warranty denials. People get denied if they have taken their car or truck to the track. Ford calls it abuse. Here are a few qoutes from their 2001 sales brochure.
"BENEATH THE HOOD of your new Lightning beats a supercharged, single-overhead-cam 5.4L Triton V8 engine, which is about to propel you into the world of high-performance motoring."
"Producing an amazing 380 horsepower and 450 foot-pounds of torque, this super truck is equally at home on the racetrack."
"It also will launch with aggressive assurance at a drag strip, then turn around and carry an 800-pound payload, tow a 5,00-pound trailer."
This is just some ammo for anyone who has a lawyer and a warranty denied suit against Ford.
This new flag ship car is not going to fix the problems at Ford. It used up resources and Few Ford people were involved on the project. The project was given to Roush and Carrol Shelby was a consultant on the project. It's over budget also..
If SVT would have been on the ball, they could have stopped production on the L in 02 and put the rest of the resources into fixing the IRS issue in the 03/04 Cobra and put the SVT Focus turbo out to take on PVO's Dodge's neon. Not to mention some exclusivity. There are L's everywhere here in lower Mi.
Ford Management at it's best. Build a really expensive sport car (GT) that is limited and put the projects that make the $$$ for the company in the closet. This just shows how bad things are at Ford MO CO. IMHO!!
Bill is running his auto company like they run the Lions. Put incompetent management in and you get job cuts and lose quality and the #2 auto standing. Toyota is #2. Ford has the highest amount of V.P.'s in the auto business.
They cut jobs at the bottom and save the high dollar useless guys at the top. That's why we have no SVT products or employees to catch quality issues. Build the products and let the public do the R&D. Hey, management! Can you say TIMBER?
Ok, done venting. Did I say working there under the stress can give you the "I don't give a chit attitude." when the work is pilled up to the crack of your a$$ and management gives you no direction. Just do it and have it on my desk by 8:00am.
John Coletti & Tom Scarpello shouldn't have used all the budget to build the GT. Then again, when Bill Ford says to build it! You build it.
The truth! The GT took up the funding for the other projects. Ford is out of $$$ and are in a bad financial position. Let's just cut to point and cut out the smoke screen. No $$$ in the SVT pot...
The GT could have been pushed back another 6 months. With a price tag of $145+K and low production figures. Ford isn't going to break even on the GT. That is going to be the 06 Lightning and Cobras task. They need to recoupe some of the R&D on models with higher production. That's why we know that some of the GT's powertrain is going to be in future models.
Bill Ford wanted to be credited with bringing back the GT!
Something history can look back at and remeber him by. It won't be the outstanding management team
he put in place when Nasser was asked to leave. My stock is still in the chitter. Ford outsourced much of the GT project to Roush. Maybe when the company stops outsourcing their engineering and pull it in-house they can take better control and make people responsible for their work and not promote them for a vehicle line with recalls and high warranty repairs.
We here that have been on the board a while, know Fords brochures don't list the quality issues when you buy a SVT or Ford product.
Piston slap.
Plug ejection.
Fog Light lenses.
Lack of quality control on machined engine parts.
Oil consumption - due to poorly designed PCV system.
IRS vibration and clunk. 99-01, 03-04 Cobra.
Engine ticking-Mach and 03 Cobra. Lack of heat disipation on drivers side head #8cylinder. Valve's get hot and tick.
My truck has these some if these quality issues im correcting out of my own pocket to fix the problem right!
Warranty denials. People get denied if they have taken their car or truck to the track. Ford calls it abuse. Here are a few qoutes from their 2001 sales brochure.
"BENEATH THE HOOD of your new Lightning beats a supercharged, single-overhead-cam 5.4L Triton V8 engine, which is about to propel you into the world of high-performance motoring."
"Producing an amazing 380 horsepower and 450 foot-pounds of torque, this super truck is equally at home on the racetrack."
"It also will launch with aggressive assurance at a drag strip, then turn around and carry an 800-pound payload, tow a 5,00-pound trailer."
This is just some ammo for anyone who has a lawyer and a warranty denied suit against Ford.
This new flag ship car is not going to fix the problems at Ford. It used up resources and Few Ford people were involved on the project. The project was given to Roush and Carrol Shelby was a consultant on the project. It's over budget also..
If SVT would have been on the ball, they could have stopped production on the L in 02 and put the rest of the resources into fixing the IRS issue in the 03/04 Cobra and put the SVT Focus turbo out to take on PVO's Dodge's neon. Not to mention some exclusivity. There are L's everywhere here in lower Mi.
Ford Management at it's best. Build a really expensive sport car (GT) that is limited and put the projects that make the $$$ for the company in the closet. This just shows how bad things are at Ford MO CO. IMHO!!
Bill is running his auto company like they run the Lions. Put incompetent management in and you get job cuts and lose quality and the #2 auto standing. Toyota is #2. Ford has the highest amount of V.P.'s in the auto business.
They cut jobs at the bottom and save the high dollar useless guys at the top. That's why we have no SVT products or employees to catch quality issues. Build the products and let the public do the R&D. Hey, management! Can you say TIMBER?
Ok, done venting. Did I say working there under the stress can give you the "I don't give a chit attitude." when the work is pilled up to the crack of your a$$ and management gives you no direction. Just do it and have it on my desk by 8:00am.
PEacE..............
Jim
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Ga
Thor01:
To add a few to your list:
1. Misaligned truck beds.
2. Scraped front bumper fascia from factory delivery carrier.
3. Refusal to fix the drivers seat left bolster problem.
4. SVT'S lack of timely response or any response when encountering a problem reported by an SVT customer.
5. Lousy cup holder.
6. Bad antenna mount design...antenna easily bends due to wind resistance.
7. Transmission pan has no drain plug.
8. A longer than 36mo/36k mile warranty.
9. Foggy taillights 01's etc.
To add a few to your list:
1. Misaligned truck beds.
2. Scraped front bumper fascia from factory delivery carrier.
3. Refusal to fix the drivers seat left bolster problem.
4. SVT'S lack of timely response or any response when encountering a problem reported by an SVT customer.
5. Lousy cup holder.
6. Bad antenna mount design...antenna easily bends due to wind resistance.
7. Transmission pan has no drain plug.
8. A longer than 36mo/36k mile warranty.
9. Foggy taillights 01's etc.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: Mi.
Georgia_Moon,
Yeah, their is just too much to list. There is no excuse for the problems Ford is having. Management says get it done to get it out the door. Warranty comes out of another budget. Not engineering...lol
Here is an honest viewpoint of an insider.
Nice SVT vehicle hits the road. Customers complain about problem. Ford uses their Blackbelt teams to find and correct problem.
Blackbelt team calls engineering section that has that vehicle in the inventory. We need to use one of your test cars for a warranty issue.
Engineering says: "NO!" You can't have, we need it for our testing. Blackbelt team spends two weeks trying to get a vehicle to investigate warranty problem.
Management to Blackbelt team: Did you resolve the warranty issue?
Blackbelts: Were finalizing the fix now. The truth is, they were given three weeks to locate and come up with a fix. Two weeks were trying to get a vehicle to start working and they have had two to three days investigation and haven't a clue what is causing the problem.
Then depending on the problem the vehicle has to be scheduled to go to the emissions lab or coldroom to make sure the fix was "TRANSPARENT" ( Great engineering term) and the lab has a full schedule.
Now you have to fight with the various engineering powertrains that have priority scheduled also. The fight then goes between managers of the powertrain groups to get priority and get data before your next meeting with upper management.
Ford has sold off Florida test facility and closed down Denver High Altitude Emissions lab to send the cars to an independant emissions company that will cost Ford more $$$ and we will have to deal with other auto companys out of that same facility.
Ford is slowling selling an arm here and a leg there to save money. Funny, it now is taking us twice as long to get things done and costing more $$$ than to operate their own facilitys. We now have to get in line behind other companys testing.
F'd up isn't the word. Toyota doesn't have this problem. They test in house and have communication thru-out the company. We don't have that.
Ford Finance Management is running that company into the ground. Even the toilet paper has gotten cheaper. Warranty's are being denied due to Ford not having the $$$ to make changes in the tooling. Notice people with piston slap with mods get denied warranty, where as people with no mods get a new engine most if not all the time.
The moded vehicle's are helping Ford save $$$ on warranty. They send the rep. He see's a K&N air filter and or aftermarket muffler and says by, by warranty.
Bill needs to Fire Padilla and O'Conner and himself and get some people with old fashioned business savy...
Ford would not have been this bad off if Billy would have let Nasser go after Firestone to recoupe the 4+ Billion in tire recalls.
Alledgedly, Just rumor, I have no proof of this, but makes sense. I heard thru the office gossip, Bill told Jack we'll eat the cost. The papers won't get the satisfaction to print the headlines, "FORD Mo Co. sues FIRESTONE Tires."
Why? He's married to a Firestone. But his 100 year old company is loosing it's AZZ and Firestone tires, is and has been owned by Bridgestone for a while. (Japanees company.) Here your company stands to lose Billions and you don't even attempt to get it back?
We at Ford new the tire issue wasn't our fault. The data was there. So now everyone that has Ford stock is at a loss. I don't know if it's true. I could see the arrogance in it....
This is just the little stuff I was dealing with in powertrain for 7 years. It was great place to work before Nasser and the Firestone recall. After that, it's just been getting worse and moral is down. People can't keep up with the job demand.
This is JMHO from what I have experienced on the job....
Yeah, their is just too much to list. There is no excuse for the problems Ford is having. Management says get it done to get it out the door. Warranty comes out of another budget. Not engineering...lol
Here is an honest viewpoint of an insider.
Nice SVT vehicle hits the road. Customers complain about problem. Ford uses their Blackbelt teams to find and correct problem.
Blackbelt team calls engineering section that has that vehicle in the inventory. We need to use one of your test cars for a warranty issue.
Engineering says: "NO!" You can't have, we need it for our testing. Blackbelt team spends two weeks trying to get a vehicle to investigate warranty problem.
Management to Blackbelt team: Did you resolve the warranty issue?
Blackbelts: Were finalizing the fix now. The truth is, they were given three weeks to locate and come up with a fix. Two weeks were trying to get a vehicle to start working and they have had two to three days investigation and haven't a clue what is causing the problem.
Then depending on the problem the vehicle has to be scheduled to go to the emissions lab or coldroom to make sure the fix was "TRANSPARENT" ( Great engineering term) and the lab has a full schedule.
Now you have to fight with the various engineering powertrains that have priority scheduled also. The fight then goes between managers of the powertrain groups to get priority and get data before your next meeting with upper management.
Ford has sold off Florida test facility and closed down Denver High Altitude Emissions lab to send the cars to an independant emissions company that will cost Ford more $$$ and we will have to deal with other auto companys out of that same facility.
Ford is slowling selling an arm here and a leg there to save money. Funny, it now is taking us twice as long to get things done and costing more $$$ than to operate their own facilitys. We now have to get in line behind other companys testing.
F'd up isn't the word. Toyota doesn't have this problem. They test in house and have communication thru-out the company. We don't have that.
Ford Finance Management is running that company into the ground. Even the toilet paper has gotten cheaper. Warranty's are being denied due to Ford not having the $$$ to make changes in the tooling. Notice people with piston slap with mods get denied warranty, where as people with no mods get a new engine most if not all the time.
The moded vehicle's are helping Ford save $$$ on warranty. They send the rep. He see's a K&N air filter and or aftermarket muffler and says by, by warranty.
Bill needs to Fire Padilla and O'Conner and himself and get some people with old fashioned business savy...
Ford would not have been this bad off if Billy would have let Nasser go after Firestone to recoupe the 4+ Billion in tire recalls.
Alledgedly, Just rumor, I have no proof of this, but makes sense. I heard thru the office gossip, Bill told Jack we'll eat the cost. The papers won't get the satisfaction to print the headlines, "FORD Mo Co. sues FIRESTONE Tires."
Why? He's married to a Firestone. But his 100 year old company is loosing it's AZZ and Firestone tires, is and has been owned by Bridgestone for a while. (Japanees company.) Here your company stands to lose Billions and you don't even attempt to get it back?
We at Ford new the tire issue wasn't our fault. The data was there. So now everyone that has Ford stock is at a loss. I don't know if it's true. I could see the arrogance in it....
This is just the little stuff I was dealing with in powertrain for 7 years. It was great place to work before Nasser and the Firestone recall. After that, it's just been getting worse and moral is down. People can't keep up with the job demand.
This is JMHO from what I have experienced on the job....
Last edited by Thor01; Nov 23, 2003 at 03:52 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Ga
Thor01:
Your frame of reference is well stated...It's odd and sad that Ford does'nt seem to realise that without customers you have no business and specifically NO jobs...I've been a lifetime Ford customer and sometimes Ford does not do the RIGHT thing for the consumer....it's deadly to base your business model on profit and image versus realworld quality and customer satisfaction...
without customers there is no Ford or Chevy or Chrysler etc...SVT in my opinion also can drop the ball and therefore a customer is left hanging...I've had a ongoing problem originating since OCT 17th wherein SVT cannot (or does not want to bother) get an SVT engineer to call my dealership on the phone and talk to my dealer tech (with my Lightning there; even my dealer states that they cannot get SVT to follow through and contact them) to discuss the rough idle on my truck...even if the problem is "unresolvable" there is no reason to let me hang out to dry like that without a phone call or email...it makes you feel very unimportant and that your business is not valued...now replicate that many thousands of times with customers that are not being listened to with legitimate complaints...and there goes your customer data base sooner or latter...the auto manufactuing world is extremely complicated
in dimension BUT when you build a poor product or issue inferior
service your business will eventually die...no matter what you build you must build it right and fix it right and be honest in the process.
Your frame of reference is well stated...It's odd and sad that Ford does'nt seem to realise that without customers you have no business and specifically NO jobs...I've been a lifetime Ford customer and sometimes Ford does not do the RIGHT thing for the consumer....it's deadly to base your business model on profit and image versus realworld quality and customer satisfaction...
without customers there is no Ford or Chevy or Chrysler etc...SVT in my opinion also can drop the ball and therefore a customer is left hanging...I've had a ongoing problem originating since OCT 17th wherein SVT cannot (or does not want to bother) get an SVT engineer to call my dealership on the phone and talk to my dealer tech (with my Lightning there; even my dealer states that they cannot get SVT to follow through and contact them) to discuss the rough idle on my truck...even if the problem is "unresolvable" there is no reason to let me hang out to dry like that without a phone call or email...it makes you feel very unimportant and that your business is not valued...now replicate that many thousands of times with customers that are not being listened to with legitimate complaints...and there goes your customer data base sooner or latter...the auto manufactuing world is extremely complicated
in dimension BUT when you build a poor product or issue inferior
service your business will eventually die...no matter what you build you must build it right and fix it right and be honest in the process.
Last edited by Georgia_Moon; Nov 23, 2003 at 04:26 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: Mi.
Georgia_Moon,
I too have the rough idle. I had SVT look at it at their building. I gave it to them for a few days. They changed trany mounts. Tried to reset the exhaust. They did everything! Couldn't fix it. I have an "In cab BOOM that resinates." It goes up the pedal in your leg and steering wheel. You are right. If you lose the customer base. Your out of business...
I'm not happy about our products. We could do it better! Ford has relied on vendors to cheapen the parts to meet Fords cost reduction plans, relied on them to sign off on the quality. The average customer doesn't know that vendors supply a good portion of the parts to build the vehicles.
When that part fails, the customer doesn't know to blame the vendor. They see the Ford badge on the car. To them it's all Ford parts. It's not. Our quality is vendor dependant. We may have a component engineer following 3-4 parts on two to four vehicle lines.
They rely on the vendors data to sign-off on that part. Who's to say the numbers haven't been made to look a little better on the durability side? Maybe the Ford component engineer is up to his/her azz in work and didn't catch it, due to work overload?
We put it on the vehicle. Next thing, we have a recall or warranty issue. This one vender got their $$$ a few times out of Ford.
1st, prototypes to be built. 2nd, the next revisions prior to production. 3rd, Once the part is ok'd then Ford pays for the production run.
4th, Then when it fails, Ford pays warranty repair to have the same part installed to buy time for a fix or the customers vehicle to go out of warranty. 5th, Paying for employee time allocated to investigate and fix the issue. 6th, When they find it's the part, they pay again to have the vendor change the tooling to correct the problem with the part.
7th, Then they retest the part on the vehicle to make sure the fix works. That's more R&D cost to prove out a part a second time.
Ford ends up paying 7 times the cost for one part to get it right.
This could have all been prevented and costed Ford less in the long run if Ford had the man power to watch the vendor more closely. Bill Ford and upper management hasn't gotten it in their heads, that people pay more for Toyota's and Lexus's due to quality. They gladly pay extra for a car that runs well into the 100K mileage.
If Ford adds a $100 to the cost of a vehicle, people will pay it if they know they are getting quality...Ford's stock is hurting b/c of their quality and wall street has labled them as short term gains corp in my opinion. The way the stock Pin-***** up and down.
Wallstreet dictates upper managements decisions. Ford "The Short term" company, is our middle name now. There once was a time when Ford built a complete car. Henry Ford wanted control of every part of his cars. That control built the legacy that current management can no longer ride on.
Bill Ford now has to fill his own glass to re-creat that legacy in the 21st century. The Ford name was once built on quality and pride.
Now the vendors and Wallstreet control that now.
I too have the rough idle. I had SVT look at it at their building. I gave it to them for a few days. They changed trany mounts. Tried to reset the exhaust. They did everything! Couldn't fix it. I have an "In cab BOOM that resinates." It goes up the pedal in your leg and steering wheel. You are right. If you lose the customer base. Your out of business...
I'm not happy about our products. We could do it better! Ford has relied on vendors to cheapen the parts to meet Fords cost reduction plans, relied on them to sign off on the quality. The average customer doesn't know that vendors supply a good portion of the parts to build the vehicles.
When that part fails, the customer doesn't know to blame the vendor. They see the Ford badge on the car. To them it's all Ford parts. It's not. Our quality is vendor dependant. We may have a component engineer following 3-4 parts on two to four vehicle lines.
They rely on the vendors data to sign-off on that part. Who's to say the numbers haven't been made to look a little better on the durability side? Maybe the Ford component engineer is up to his/her azz in work and didn't catch it, due to work overload?
We put it on the vehicle. Next thing, we have a recall or warranty issue. This one vender got their $$$ a few times out of Ford.
1st, prototypes to be built. 2nd, the next revisions prior to production. 3rd, Once the part is ok'd then Ford pays for the production run.
4th, Then when it fails, Ford pays warranty repair to have the same part installed to buy time for a fix or the customers vehicle to go out of warranty. 5th, Paying for employee time allocated to investigate and fix the issue. 6th, When they find it's the part, they pay again to have the vendor change the tooling to correct the problem with the part.
7th, Then they retest the part on the vehicle to make sure the fix works. That's more R&D cost to prove out a part a second time.
Ford ends up paying 7 times the cost for one part to get it right.
This could have all been prevented and costed Ford less in the long run if Ford had the man power to watch the vendor more closely. Bill Ford and upper management hasn't gotten it in their heads, that people pay more for Toyota's and Lexus's due to quality. They gladly pay extra for a car that runs well into the 100K mileage.
If Ford adds a $100 to the cost of a vehicle, people will pay it if they know they are getting quality...Ford's stock is hurting b/c of their quality and wall street has labled them as short term gains corp in my opinion. The way the stock Pin-***** up and down.
Wallstreet dictates upper managements decisions. Ford "The Short term" company, is our middle name now. There once was a time when Ford built a complete car. Henry Ford wanted control of every part of his cars. That control built the legacy that current management can no longer ride on.
Bill Ford now has to fill his own glass to re-creat that legacy in the 21st century. The Ford name was once built on quality and pride.
Now the vendors and Wallstreet control that now.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Slightly off topic comments.
It's not just Ford, though. Corporate America as a whole is increasingly run by bean counters, as if handling the books is the same as having business savvy. It's not.
Look at the number of highly skilled jobs oursourced both here and overseas to cut costs--over the long term it's going to cost more. In the mean time, all of the skilled labor is no longer our own--corporate America is all about management and finance.
Hate to see it happen, but it is.
--Rip
It's not just Ford, though. Corporate America as a whole is increasingly run by bean counters, as if handling the books is the same as having business savvy. It's not.
Look at the number of highly skilled jobs oursourced both here and overseas to cut costs--over the long term it's going to cost more. In the mean time, all of the skilled labor is no longer our own--corporate America is all about management and finance.
Hate to see it happen, but it is.
--Rip
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Ga
Thor01:
It is refreshing and "hopeful" that someone of your calibre actually
does care about ford and their products...It's is easy to see the deep fustration in you words...BUT I hope you stick it out with Ford...The ONLY true resource ford has is it's people and your (thankfully) are one of them...period, and this is valid for any company anywhere....sometimes I feel that when companies become "monstrous" in size and scope, human values often become sacrificed upon the alter of accounting numbers...talented creative people become lost hopelessly in a sea of political/coprorate power NONSENSE......in the world of the consumer like the folks here it becomes VERY personal when you pay a lot of hard earned money for an SVT vehicle and you run into serious problems...in 96 bought a new cobra...what a beauty it was...then in the first hot summer in Georgia quickly found out it overheated because of an undersize cooling system...
needed a whole new improved cooling system plus you could'nt keep the tires balanced....where was Quality Job1?....in 2000 bought a new Lightning...what happened because of SVT quality
to my pretty beast....piston slap at 4000 miles....they replaced the
engine/blower with a whole new crate assembly....well they totally butchered the engine install (I have the documented digital pics)...then they crank it up for the first time and GLORY BE what happens...a defective NEW blower (bad snorkel bearing)...
where was SVT quality on this L...I dont know because I could'nt
find it. Thor you said "I'm not happy about our products. We could do it better"...well I believe you but will Ford listen to you...I doubt it...but please try!
Yes I love SVT vehicles but I am not blind to quality issues nor the inability of Ford to rectify these problems.....if fact if a manufacturer cant or wont build a quality vehicle then they need to get out of the car business...All this makes me wonder about the quality of the bombers they built during WWII...
"Bill Ford now has to fill his own glass to re-creat that legacy in the 21st century" you know what Thor...Mr Ford needs to leave the office and leave behind the puppets that lie to him...come out
here to anywhere USA and talk in person to the common people
that bought the vehicles that BUILT his global empire...and as for SVT they need to do the same...get out of the plant and talk to us
in real language...listen to our concerns...and then go home and work hard to "BUILD IT RIGHT"....
Thor...thank you very much for replying....I guess your rough idle never got straightened out?...
My opinion of ["I have an "In cab BOOM that resinates." ].....
thats vibrational acoustical resonance...and usually the symptom must be duplicated at speed...If the techs would mount acoustical
and vibration sensors spaced equadistantly underneath your truck...go on the road that "prompts" this sympton...that would help isolate the problem....The vehicle must be treated as a "whole mass" not just individual parts...in other words use the the approach as you use in aerospace with spacecraft/airplanes.
It is refreshing and "hopeful" that someone of your calibre actually
does care about ford and their products...It's is easy to see the deep fustration in you words...BUT I hope you stick it out with Ford...The ONLY true resource ford has is it's people and your (thankfully) are one of them...period, and this is valid for any company anywhere....sometimes I feel that when companies become "monstrous" in size and scope, human values often become sacrificed upon the alter of accounting numbers...talented creative people become lost hopelessly in a sea of political/coprorate power NONSENSE......in the world of the consumer like the folks here it becomes VERY personal when you pay a lot of hard earned money for an SVT vehicle and you run into serious problems...in 96 bought a new cobra...what a beauty it was...then in the first hot summer in Georgia quickly found out it overheated because of an undersize cooling system...
needed a whole new improved cooling system plus you could'nt keep the tires balanced....where was Quality Job1?....in 2000 bought a new Lightning...what happened because of SVT quality
to my pretty beast....piston slap at 4000 miles....they replaced the
engine/blower with a whole new crate assembly....well they totally butchered the engine install (I have the documented digital pics)...then they crank it up for the first time and GLORY BE what happens...a defective NEW blower (bad snorkel bearing)...
where was SVT quality on this L...I dont know because I could'nt
find it. Thor you said "I'm not happy about our products. We could do it better"...well I believe you but will Ford listen to you...I doubt it...but please try!
Yes I love SVT vehicles but I am not blind to quality issues nor the inability of Ford to rectify these problems.....if fact if a manufacturer cant or wont build a quality vehicle then they need to get out of the car business...All this makes me wonder about the quality of the bombers they built during WWII...
"Bill Ford now has to fill his own glass to re-creat that legacy in the 21st century" you know what Thor...Mr Ford needs to leave the office and leave behind the puppets that lie to him...come out
here to anywhere USA and talk in person to the common people
that bought the vehicles that BUILT his global empire...and as for SVT they need to do the same...get out of the plant and talk to us
in real language...listen to our concerns...and then go home and work hard to "BUILD IT RIGHT"....
Thor...thank you very much for replying....I guess your rough idle never got straightened out?...
My opinion of ["I have an "In cab BOOM that resinates." ].....
thats vibrational acoustical resonance...and usually the symptom must be duplicated at speed...If the techs would mount acoustical
and vibration sensors spaced equadistantly underneath your truck...go on the road that "prompts" this sympton...that would help isolate the problem....The vehicle must be treated as a "whole mass" not just individual parts...in other words use the the approach as you use in aerospace with spacecraft/airplanes.
Last edited by Georgia_Moon; Nov 23, 2003 at 08:24 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach, CA
Thor01,
I hear what you are saying. I have been in the retail business and the manufacturing business. I have held operational and finance positions in both businesses. I am currently working in a specialized machine shop where I serve as the president.
There is no subsitute for quality. You have to have it, period. It comes before delivery and price. A bad part is worthless. I would imagine Ford is trying to outsource to both cut cost and speed time to market. The goals are fine. Proper execution is lacking. Outsourcing a part, assembly, engineering ect. does not relieve Ford of QC responsiblity. That must be insured at all cost.
If you need more QC people and engineers, hire them and add it to the cost of the project. If the cost gets to high , get another vendor. What ever you do, do it NOW! At the end of the day the blue oval is on the product and your reputation is worth too much to loose.
With regard to your example of the black belts trying to get a vehicle. I would have ask engineering for a vehicle if they said no I would take it up with the top guy. If I get a no there I would get those guys to work 24 hours day to free up the vehicle. Still no, ok, I am going to the nearest dealer to wherever I am standing and buy the g-dam thing and get going on the fix.
The above process takes me no more than 24 hours, period.
It is not a perfect world. You try to minimize problems. But when you have a problem fix it NOW. We have had the plug shooter heads since 1996. We have had the POS automatic
transmision since at least 1989 ( we put 5 in our Diesel f450 stakebed) and my L is on its 2nd transmision after 50,000. If Ford can not build a heavy duty trany buy it from Alison and make them cover any warranty isssues for the first 100,000. Someone needs to start kicking a$$ and taking names over there or you guys are all going to be working at Walmart. Take the initiative, get fired for being bold! Need help, e-mail me kneumann1@socal.rr.com.
I hear what you are saying. I have been in the retail business and the manufacturing business. I have held operational and finance positions in both businesses. I am currently working in a specialized machine shop where I serve as the president.
There is no subsitute for quality. You have to have it, period. It comes before delivery and price. A bad part is worthless. I would imagine Ford is trying to outsource to both cut cost and speed time to market. The goals are fine. Proper execution is lacking. Outsourcing a part, assembly, engineering ect. does not relieve Ford of QC responsiblity. That must be insured at all cost.
If you need more QC people and engineers, hire them and add it to the cost of the project. If the cost gets to high , get another vendor. What ever you do, do it NOW! At the end of the day the blue oval is on the product and your reputation is worth too much to loose.
With regard to your example of the black belts trying to get a vehicle. I would have ask engineering for a vehicle if they said no I would take it up with the top guy. If I get a no there I would get those guys to work 24 hours day to free up the vehicle. Still no, ok, I am going to the nearest dealer to wherever I am standing and buy the g-dam thing and get going on the fix.
The above process takes me no more than 24 hours, period.
It is not a perfect world. You try to minimize problems. But when you have a problem fix it NOW. We have had the plug shooter heads since 1996. We have had the POS automatic
transmision since at least 1989 ( we put 5 in our Diesel f450 stakebed) and my L is on its 2nd transmision after 50,000. If Ford can not build a heavy duty trany buy it from Alison and make them cover any warranty isssues for the first 100,000. Someone needs to start kicking a$$ and taking names over there or you guys are all going to be working at Walmart. Take the initiative, get fired for being bold! Need help, e-mail me kneumann1@socal.rr.com.