I haven't bashed anyone in this thread. I started out just saying people shouldn't pass judgment on less than all the facts, and wondered why no one jumped all over Sonic/Tundra this way when they died. The fact that I thought it was a single vehicle accident when in fact they hit a motorhome doesn't change the argument, although I admit my error.

 

Mecca started this thread so here is some additional info:

Since the horrible accident, no further news was available from
local Atlanta news [ABC,CBS,NBC] so I decided to find if there was a local newpaper in that area of Lawrenceville that might have more info....so here is xtra info....names are provided....

Quote>
"LAWRENCEVILLE — Police on Wednesday released the name of the deceased victim in a head-on collision on Mitchell Road near Brookhollow Parkway.
Felix Gonzalez, 41, of Norcross, was killed Tuesday afternoon when a Ford F-150 truck crossed over the center line and struck his minivan head-on.
Witnesses said the at-fault driver, 39-year-old James Daunhauer, was driving erratically just before the accident. Vehicular homicide charges are pending against Daunhauer, who is recovering from non-life threatening injuries at Gwinnett Medical center, according to Cpl. Dan Huggins, spokesman for Gwinnett Police."
<Quote finished

Does anybody know "James Daunhauer"?

this is the web site for the Quinnett Daily News.
http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/G...3F13BF7E4D.asp

(this is also posted under a new thread "update to Sad Day thread")

 

For those that are interested I posted a request that the T.V. show Myth Busters do a show on the whole 60 mph. thing so if anybody wants to go over there and support it here is the link.


http://discovery.infopop.net/1/OpenT...6&m=3151936386




I for one would like to see all three scenario's in person I think it would be cool. So can you guys

 

Ripnrun:

You were right about one thing, Chief. Very right. Folks are confused, very confused.

The horizontal expansion of the BASIC concept (car-car vs car-wall, speed equivalency) has taken this in all sorts of unintended and incorrect directions.

The slow creep of a parked car inot this discussion as an impact target has screwed everything up. You're right about that.

Gang:

If you're tooling down the road in your Lightning, then are faced with a certain wreck, and you have an instantaneous choice of three things to hit:

A) An identical Lightning heading toward you at 60 MPH

B) A Big, flat, infinitely huge and hard brick wall

C) A parked Lightning

BY ALL MEANS WHACK THE PARKED LIGHTNING!

You will come out much better for it.

If choice "C", for whatever reason, is not available (that is - you are faced with just "A" and "B"), just flip a coin, because there is no difference, as far as impact severity (in our simplified, idealized scenario).

Again, a slight tip of the hat to RipnRun, who was very much right about the direction this thing was going, and in large part due to my "scientific evangelism".

Xan Man: Please edit your post over at that board to keep things scientifically relevant. The debate you reference happening on this board is not the one you described, exactly. Or not. This thing is pretty much dead, anyway, and not a moment too soon.

 

I think we're finally in agreement, Silver-Y2K-SVT (especially about this thread). XanMan, please let this die...

I dug around a few minutes and found this for those still dwelling on the subject:

http://www.rec-tec.com/CX4.html

Since this is not from anyone on this site, there's no debate. Now everything should be cleared up.

Now, can't we all just get along?

 

The website you linked is correct in its calculations, of course.

To summarize:

60 vs 60 = 60 vs wall
60 vs parked = less than 60 vs 60 and 60 vs wall
(A fourth scenario involving a head-on, different speeds)

In fact, hitting a parked car at 60 MPH is like hitting the wall at 42 MPH, per my calculations.

Good on ya, mate.

And no, I don't figure we can all just get along (Reginald Denney shout-out).

Peace.

 

BY NO MEANS flip a coin, keep your eyes on the road

No but seriuosly take a wall, my buddy was in an accident like that, his choices were wall of an empty store (was midnight) or a minivan, he took the wall, which is definately better, the wall ended up giving a lot and also other cars have people.

Hey silver, you did that calculation to 42 mph based on the vehicle weight being 4600? What about lighter vehicles? Average is like 3000 right?

 

Since we're on the topic, please feel free to convey your thoughts on the energy transferred to Mr Denny's melon, or something.

 

'Myte:

PLEEEZ let this silly exercise die! Do not keep taking it sideways.

As for the parked car calculation, I again assumed identical masses.

Again: kinetic energy = 1/2-times-mass-times-speedsquared

For simplicity, assume a mass of "two units" for each vehicle.

60 MPH squared equals 3600 units of kinetic energy.

Each of the identical vehicles in the crash takes half of the energy to be dispersed, which is 1800 units.

Work back through the equation, 1800 units is equal to one of the vehicles moving at 42 MPH (hitting the infinitely hard/solid wall at 42 MPH).

Note that this is a very simplified situation - necessary for the back-of-envelope nature of the calculations. Actually solving this for a real-world situation would be tough. What if the parked vehicle was in neutral, e-brake not on? What if there was another parked car right behind it? What if it was parked next to a tree? Wheels turned?

My calculations are more accurate for two soft, deformable (low coefficient of restitution) masses, like Sal's clay ***** (hee, hee - Beavis and Butthead laugh).

The takeaway is: Hitting a parked car is more forgiving than either of the other two scenarios, and I've given you an approximate magnitude of "how much gentler".

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS EXERCISE ANY FARTHER AFIELD.

As for your bud, OF COURSE hitting the soft, yielding store was a better choice. Notice that in the eight-gazillion posts about the car/car vs car/wall scenario, the wall was never described as being made from marshmallows.

 

Just because I'm trying to reach 100 posts, in response to Speedin Bob, Mr. Denny's melon is equivalent to the immovable brick wall. Whatever hits it takes full damage.

 

One thing you have definitely proven to me is that you are one of the best at beating a dead horse.

 

All you guys that let your family's ride in family vans take notice! Soccer moms and dads in their soccer vans with kids and acting like their driving a Lambo beware! Man in L minor injuries, soccer mom vans= death
Sorry guy's the vans on a daily basis are far more dangerous to me and themselves than the L drivers.

 

Did you not see that it was the L driver that caused the accident, and killed the driver of the minivan? Minivans are safe vehicles, but when a bad driver hits you head on, there's really not much you can do. IMO, I'm glad the L owner got minor injuries and is still alive, that way he can remember forever the life that he took off this earth.

All the 60mph vs. 60mph discussion is good, but if the L owner was witnessed to be driving erratically, he was probably exceeding the speed limit, and more likely it was a 55mph vs. 75mph head-on. Wherein the Lightning directed it's kinetic energy from the collision into the minivan, causing more damage to the van (and it's occupants) than it would sustain.

 

Took the words right outta my mouth

 

A question was asked, and subsequently and directly answered, DOCTOR Fractaldragon. Good luck on that PhD.