I have no special love for Ford as until I got the 99 L I was a GM man. I am not taking up for Ford but what do some of us expect our of them when it comes to warranty repairs? It looks to me that anything over a conservative chip and four pounds of extra boost is all these things will take. If you were Ford would you want to be responsible for a chip that some yeawho burned (they have no idea how skilled the tunner is)? So many of you that have had a rod problem have been running 6 lbs. of boost or more and/or have been on the spray! Don't get me wrong I run a four pound lower and a chip and when I get the new 03 I don't know what I will do. I just do not want to pay thousands of dollars because of mods (but I want to be fair with Ford). I'm sure I will mod the 03 but with Ford after our a$$eS on this, I don't know. I guess it's just how much risk are you willing to take. Are there many blown motors running 4 lbs. extra boost and a name brand chip? Would we be having all the trouble with Ford if no one was running more than 4 lbs. extra boost? There has to be a reasonable cutoff. We can't run 10 lbs. extra boost and a 150 hp shot of spray then be pissed at Ford because that tell us to go pound sand!

Your opinions please


Jerry

 

Jerry,

The issue is NOT about the amount of boost. It is about proper tuning and spark plug choices/maintenance.

The only draw back that will come from MORE boost is the loss of blower effeciency after about 8lbs.

I personally know folks running 8lbs over and have heard of people doing the 10lb over lately. But they have the proper tune for it.


Remember......It's The Tune...It's The Tune....It's The Tune. Now keep that in mind when you chase back the post history of the latest block ventilation and find them asking for used chips...which tuner is cheapest....how can i get something for nothing. It is about not squeezing your butt cheeks tight when it comes to tunning and plugs.


Rocks

 

Here's my take....

The design of the 5.4 engine was a success with the ability to crank out so much torque it was amazing. The problem lies where the actual stoke is much longer than average (you are entitled to snicker and giggle for about 5 seconds.......ok back to the point)...with such a long stroke to the motor, they don't fair too well in the high rpm range. It's no secret that there are flaws to these motors. I think it's great to come up with a blower on these trucks and to market them under the svt program, but ford and svt should have been prepared for the aftermath of once these vehicles hit the streets. Don't tell me they didn't think people were gonna mod them.

Here's my take. It is fact that stock engines have blown rods. From the beginning in 99, till now, it's been happening. Not as many cases Heard in 99-00 as there is currently. Is it because boards like these are into full swing, and not as many lighting owners were on here then, as there are now??? Is it because there wasn't as many mods availible then, and alot of guys have traded their older models in???

Motors were blowing stock. 2lb pulleys came out and everyone wanted them, a couple blown motors everyone was scared to death. Same with the 3, 4, 5, 6, 8's.......... But i feel we all know the stock rods are the weak points of the block. The forged pistons, forged rods, forged crank. Forged sounds so good when you hear it, but it doesn't mean it's bullet proof.

Ford put Manley rods in the 03 cobra because the motor wouldn't stay together with 8lbs of boost over 3500 rpm or so. You think ford maybe catering to the ponies a little more because of the well know aftermarket companies that thrive off these cars??? Do you think that ford maybe wanted to put these rods in the 2002, and 2003 lightnings after they were seeing so many motors come in in pieces.....but maybe they thought everyone would see it as them admitting they had a problem???

Ford obviously has a head problem with their modular motor, and we are hearing of production improvements on new heads.....

I personally think that it is more of a uniform production flaw on the rod manufacurers. I mean you have 2 trucks running the same mods, one truck blows up the other one doesn't. The one that didn't ups to a 6lb pulley, the truck that blew up takes his 4 off and put's a 2 on. All in the sudden that same truck blew up again and the other one is still kicking. Is it luck or did the manufacturing of that particular set of rods in that motor actually hold up better than the other guys for a reason. My theory is that not all production rods are created equal and i would be curious to see how they are tested and rated.

Bottom line is you buy something and screw around with it, it's not really the manufacturers fault and why should they pay???? Well......some of the mods that are on these motors when they blew up aren't no where near extreme. You would think that in the design, there would be some room to play. Maybe ford really pushed the envelope when setting these trucks up and they were really pushed capabilities of the components they are using to build these trucks. Should we feel that maybe ford didn't put their all into these trucks, or should be feel that they went out on a limb to give us what we get in a stock lightning, but it's all great as long as it stays stock!!!

Just thinking.............or babbling is it

 

4 threads in an aluminum head...thats just a poor a$$ design...

with that said, i agree with rocks...it is mostly the tune. however the rods are still a weak point if you're shooting for the hp that i am....

all i can say is that these 5.4s ain't no 2JZ's

just for sh*ts and giggles, i would've bought a supra TT brand new over these trucks if i was in the market for a perf. vehicle and both were in the new market....

 

Welp, actually your incorrect. The Modular 4.6 cobra motor would crack a ringland with even 6 psi of boost Very rarely was there ever a rod failure with these motors. They would just lose compression like mad. The crappy pistons didnt help. Wasnt the rods.

Ford did get wise and realize, hey.. we cant spin the **** out of these eatons. We need to drop the rpm down on the cobra motor or these eatons might self destruct. I think what they learned with the lightning and mods is why the 03 cobras come with the manley rods and a stout shortblock. Im more then sure they will fix the next lightning to be just as bulletproof,if not even stronger then the 03 cobras.

You have to look at how SVT works. 1996-99 they had the 4.6 with weak pistons/rings. They cant take boost very long until you have to rebuild. The came out with the Lightning in 99. They learned some things with the cobra motors. They lowered compression and added forged pistonsto the L motor. For what the truck is, its very stout. I honestly think SVT thought the older crowds would buy the trucks and most likely not mod them to the degree of the mustang enthusiast.

What they learn with each generation of their cars/trucks is how they able to improve . We can be pissed off at Ford for not providing us with a built forged shortblock. But the reality is they accomplished what they needed to in 99. Takes a lot of ***** to have the vision to release a truck that spits out 360 hp with a blower.. Not to mention, knock off the top dog ( cobra ) off the throne at the same time. That was 1999. 03 Cobra came out in 2002. A lot has been learned and a lot has changed since then.

 

I agree with you completely


I don't remember where i read it, i'll have to go back through my MM&FF, maybe that is where, but SVT themselves said that the reason they went with the Manley rods is because "they couldn't hold the motors together at higher RPM ranges with the addition of the eaton blower".....

I'm not going to go nuts trying to figure out where i read this, but i'm sure i'm not the only one read, maybe they remember.

 

Thanks everyone!
Being a Ford Emplyee it's nice to hear some positive talk and constructive opinions.

Peace, Suavy

 

I stopped reading MM&FF when Mr Capistrano came on the Corral and said anyone who posts on the Corral are ding a lings... They received a lot of cancellations that month. Their information is left to be desired. I learned a hell of a lot more off the forums and problems i encoutered on my own, owning several since 1996.

At any rate. The older romeo 4.6 spun to 7K. If you do the rpm conversion of the eaton, it far exceeds its 18,000 rpm range capability.

I think what they realized is that these Lighting pulleys will easily be converted to the Cobra. We better plan ahead and build these motors right. Its cheaper for them in the long run anyhow.

Also Ford's engine program is a tough one. They torture motors and if they dont hold up, the go back to the board. They were just playing it safe. Lower the RPM, keep the eaton within its limits and provide a bulletproof shortblock to limit warranty return. They did however fail to remove that pos IRS and replace it with a solid axle.

 

Although the tune is super important........the fact of the matter is the rods aren't holding up under addional power

I know of someone who just did all the major bolts on and had the chip tuned for all of them. Motor blew apart on the first test drive. No plug or head damage. Failure analysis= #4 rod failed, causing lower engine failure

 

Having a long stroke ( rods ) doesnt help the situation.

Detonation can play hell on rods. The detonation you have to worry about is the detonation you cannot hear.

Ive gotten into the habit of taking the less hp/tq for the sake of safety. Sure, 1 or 2 tenths is nice when your try to reduce your et and find out what mods are doing for you. After a dyno session and a AF ratio not exceeding 11.5, i hook up the mobile wideband and do some datalogging blasts up a 5% grade. My real world AF is as low as 10.9 to 11.6 max. It makes me feel good. I also dont go hog wild with timing. Ive seen people running upwards of 19 degrees of timing on a street program. Scarey

I always recommend using every tool you have available to you to make your truck safe to drive. However, sometimes common sense is left in the glove box.

 

You can have billet rods and they will never hold up to detonation.
When you have a 6+" stroke and you have a raised shift point of 55, 56, or 5700rpm that = disaster. No throw in a questionable tune and KABOOOOOM!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, while the rods are not highest quality on the market they are adequate. I was told by a reliable Ford source that the 5.4 will have a problem with block flex under VERY high loads. We were discussing a 5.4 in excess of 1200hp.


Yo **** - you beat me to it!

 

You had to get me started

I guess I agree with both sides, In one aspect yes Ford is not responsible to replace, rebuild, or repair parts that were broken due to performance modifications that played a part in the failure.

However, The Lightning was clearly promoted as the world's fastest truck, Ford boasted and bragged about the 0 to 60 in 5.8 sec's and the 1/4 mi in 13.9 sec's @100MPH and the 380HP/450 Torque, etc. What kind of people do you think will buy these ???
People that want the fastest truck on the planet that’s who. "US"
Ford knew what these trucks were about. And they delivered TO AN EXTENT. I mean come on, I've been a motor head for over 25 years and I still can't believe that here I am driving a (soon to be 11 sec) supercharged truck 24/7 and can use it for everything from a wedding to a race track to a Home Depot run. It handles, it looks AWESOME, it's fast as schitt, and it's dam right comfortable, not to mention quite rich looking too. """""BUT""""" for Ford to turn their back on the trouble that came along WAS WRONG.

Even know there were massive head failures due to spitting plugs, they just turned their back and continued to make them year after year after year. They also knew the rod's were the weak point but just left them alone, even know they already had better rods they were using in different Ford motors ??? I mean come on, WTF is that about ? And we can't forget the clunk, how the hell do you hand over thousands upon thousands of L's to people with them clunking when you turned the wheel day one ??? Again they turned their back and did nothing about it year after year. Lets see, round bolt, oval hole, hmm, do you think it will work, "HELLO"

Noisy windows, spare tire's that don't work, windshield gaskets falling out, body moldings falling off, "that I can live with", but having a $35,000.00 vehicle that will explode with a bad tank of gas, or a clogged fuel filter or injector IS NOT WHAT I WOULD CALL QUALITY BUILT.

"MOD'S HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FAILURES"
most of the time

 

yes chipping with a bad tune a blowing our own motors is our fault, no doubt about it. but the plug/head issue...its gotta go, that is ford fault plain out and simple

 

Yup, the head/plug issue is a MAJOR flaw and should have been corrected way before the 2000 model year.

What i dont understand is this...

I know of someone named Joe . He had bought a 99 cobra and he made a dyno run right after picking it up. He said, " ****, something isnt right. I have no power, i dont see that 15 hp increase as advertised."

Joe shortly got access to a Bore Scope. He began taking many pictures while entering the throttle body, straight down to the lower manifold. Casting flashes. Major horsepower robbing casting flashes. So i hosted highly detailed picures on my website for him. Looking at my website statistics, i had major major major hits from Ford.com host listings. Shortly after, Ford had a recall on the 99 Cobras, which cancelled production for the 2000 cobra, later resumed in 2001.

Im sort of blown away that Ford hasnt corrected this head problem. It may be that the 5.4 is so widely used that a recall would kill them. Perhaps the bean counters at upper ford mgt felt it was cheaper just to repair the heads until a bandaid could be used.

Eventually we may have access to the revised cylinder heads. Who knows if it even corrects the problem. Its not right but im sure ill find a way to fix it on my own. Until then, this is the only reason why i havent built a full blown lightning yet. I wont invest my $$ into a 5 angle $2500 set of port/polished heads just to see that $$ go straight into the drain because of a launched plug.

When SVT was launched under the SVE name in 1993, the expected service from owning a special vehicle wasnt there. Infact, nearly all the way up to 2000 you were treated just the same. I feel that if someone invests $$ into the SVT name by purchasing such vehicles, SVT/FORD should provide unprecedented service and take of warranty claims without any bull**** drama.

Ford/Svt is aware that the Mustangs, Lightnings and Foci will be modified. However, they do provide a good platform that works for the power levels as advertised. Once we see that demon come out from extensive modifications, we have to be man enough to assume responsibility. Many dont believe this.

Irritating things i see people complain about is blowing up engines because their non-dyno'd mail order chip caused their motor to blow with their 4, 5 or 6# pulley and laundry list of mods. this is where common sense was left in the glove box and stupidity took over.

Gen 3 will be interesting for the Lightning. Im sure the truck will be very powerful... The engine will be as stout if not stronger then the 03. I guess we will all just have to sit and wait.

Btw.. Give it another 6 months and im sure we will hear about engine failures in the 03 when people start strapping new blowers on them with improper tunes, fuel systems or timing.

 

Every once in a while, someone steals my exact thoughts
around here. Good job ****!!! I agree 100% ... If you
put a blower and a chip on a Maytag, they won't warranty
it anymore either! But if the DOOR falls of the washer, they
sure will replace it.

Cliff