4# or 5# with no chip. What's your mods?
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From: Cypress, TX
4# or 5# with no chip. What's your mods?
I know it's been asked before, but it has been a while. I have found a lot of info in the L forum about pulley with no chip. I'm curious how many HD owners are running a 4# or 5# with no chip. If you are, please list your other mods, and any real data you have.
I know there are a lot of advantages to running a chip. At some point, I'm sure I will probably run one myself. For now, I want more power, without the chip...
I know there are a lot of advantages to running a chip. At some point, I'm sure I will probably run one myself. For now, I want more power, without the chip...
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From: Houston, tx
Hey N2
check w/ showya over on f150world. I think he is running a 2.8" upper, but I could be wrong. If that's the case, that's a 2-3lb upper for the L, making it a 4-5lb boost over stock HD boost and he would sooner chop off his right arm than run a chip....
Ken
check w/ showya over on f150world. I think he is running a 2.8" upper, but I could be wrong. If that's the case, that's a 2-3lb upper for the L, making it a 4-5lb boost over stock HD boost and he would sooner chop off his right arm than run a chip....
Ken
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From: Cypress, TX
Ken800,
I believe your thinking of Shadow009., not Showya. Anyway, I just thought I would troll for input in the HD forums. As I said, I have read quit a bit of info in the L forums about this. There are a lot of L guys running 4#, and a few running 6# without any "known" problems.
I think we both agree that the 4# or 5# is safe to run on an HD. Saturday I talked to a guy at Tommie Vaughn Ford Motorsports. He's a parts guy, not a tech, but he says they will install a 4# on an HD, but WILL NOT use a chip. They refuse to use a chip on anything.
I asked about top pulley vs. bottom, and he ended that conversation pretty quick. If the top pulley has been changed, Eaton, and Ford will void the blower warranty. If the lower pulley has been changed, they will honor warranty claims as much as Ford will allow.
They suggest removing the pulley before coming in if possible, for serious problems. I guess they are a "somewhat" mod friendly dealer since they do bolt on installs.
The real reason I was looking for HD specific input, was the question over HD vs. L computers. I don't think anyone has ever determined if the stock computer(s) have a different tune. If I'm not mistaken, you were in search of that info at one time. Did you ever find a legitimate answer?...
I believe your thinking of Shadow009., not Showya. Anyway, I just thought I would troll for input in the HD forums. As I said, I have read quit a bit of info in the L forums about this. There are a lot of L guys running 4#, and a few running 6# without any "known" problems.
I think we both agree that the 4# or 5# is safe to run on an HD. Saturday I talked to a guy at Tommie Vaughn Ford Motorsports. He's a parts guy, not a tech, but he says they will install a 4# on an HD, but WILL NOT use a chip. They refuse to use a chip on anything.
I asked about top pulley vs. bottom, and he ended that conversation pretty quick. If the top pulley has been changed, Eaton, and Ford will void the blower warranty. If the lower pulley has been changed, they will honor warranty claims as much as Ford will allow.
They suggest removing the pulley before coming in if possible, for serious problems. I guess they are a "somewhat" mod friendly dealer since they do bolt on installs.
The real reason I was looking for HD specific input, was the question over HD vs. L computers. I don't think anyone has ever determined if the stock computer(s) have a different tune. If I'm not mistaken, you were in search of that info at one time. Did you ever find a legitimate answer?...
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From: Houston, tx
You are right, it was shadow...
Sorry for the slip.
The tunes on the two trucks are definitely different, but your information concernting TV Ford putting a 4lb lower on with NO CHIP seems like a good lead. If they install it, they are going to have to service the truck with it on there...
I'll contact shadow and see what he can come up with concerning the computer being tuned out as far or farther than the stock L setup...
thunderkiss and shadow9 are the two on world that I think have the 2.8" asp. I know thunderkiss does... Anyway, they both have worked on OEM engine calibration in their previous lives. One of them has previous or current connections to ford and managed to get someone to tell them that the stock HD computer acutally had calibration tables tuned far enough out that the additional air and fuel demands of of pullied motor were no problem.
Given that pulley diameter, a 7.4" lower and a 2.8" upper would net out a 2.6428 ratio. That's about the same as a 2lb JDM (7.8") lower pulley on the L (7.4/2.93=2.66)...
Harley#356, do you remember that post? It was some time around may/jun/jul of last year I think and was over on world....
Ken
Sorry for the slip.
The tunes on the two trucks are definitely different, but your information concernting TV Ford putting a 4lb lower on with NO CHIP seems like a good lead. If they install it, they are going to have to service the truck with it on there...
I'll contact shadow and see what he can come up with concerning the computer being tuned out as far or farther than the stock L setup...
thunderkiss and shadow9 are the two on world that I think have the 2.8" asp. I know thunderkiss does... Anyway, they both have worked on OEM engine calibration in their previous lives. One of them has previous or current connections to ford and managed to get someone to tell them that the stock HD computer acutally had calibration tables tuned far enough out that the additional air and fuel demands of of pullied motor were no problem.
Given that pulley diameter, a 7.4" lower and a 2.8" upper would net out a 2.6428 ratio. That's about the same as a 2lb JDM (7.8") lower pulley on the L (7.4/2.93=2.66)...
Harley#356, do you remember that post? It was some time around may/jun/jul of last year I think and was over on world....
Ken
Last edited by ken800; Jan 20, 2003 at 12:11 PM.
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From: Cypress, TX
Ken, ScottH, Josh,
Good input here guys. It seems that so far the 4# is a safe bet on the HD computer, and the 5# may or may not be fine, depending on the stock tune.
My thinking now is to consider one of the interchangeable pulley kits, and go with a 4#. Then if I decide to chip it, I can step up to 6#. I haven't compared the seperate prices yet, so that may not be any better than just buying individual pulleys.
ScottH 4v, please keep of informed of your results as they become available. We are on the same path, your just a bit ahead of me.
BTW- I put the K&N panel filter in yesterday. I didn't get to test it much, but at a 1000rpm stall and launch I left twin 30-40 black marks...
Good input here guys. It seems that so far the 4# is a safe bet on the HD computer, and the 5# may or may not be fine, depending on the stock tune.
My thinking now is to consider one of the interchangeable pulley kits, and go with a 4#. Then if I decide to chip it, I can step up to 6#. I haven't compared the seperate prices yet, so that may not be any better than just buying individual pulleys.
ScottH 4v, please keep of informed of your results as they become available. We are on the same path, your just a bit ahead of me.
BTW- I put the K&N panel filter in yesterday. I didn't get to test it much, but at a 1000rpm stall and launch I left twin 30-40 black marks...
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From: West Texas
Embarrassing admission... I took my JL Diablo chip out a couple of weeks ago to have it re-burned. Have been driving the truck without a chip since. Zero detonation... it definitely made more power with the chip but did ping when lugged at all in the winter air (never did that in the summer heat 
)--no ping at all sans the chip. From looking at the tailpipes and sorry (even worse that before) gas mileage I suspect it is running quite rich...
)--no ping at all sans the chip. From looking at the tailpipes and sorry (even worse that before) gas mileage I suspect it is running quite rich...
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From: Houston, tx
wow!
thanks for that input slingshot!
Can you take it to a dyno and get some numbers or are you going to avoid WOT at all costs until the chip is back?
I have been giving *seriuos* thought to trying my truck with the 6lb lower on a dyno, no chip, just to see what I get.
Be careful! I'd hate to see you roast your motor.
Ken
thanks for that input slingshot!
Can you take it to a dyno and get some numbers or are you going to avoid WOT at all costs until the chip is back?
I have been giving *seriuos* thought to trying my truck with the 6lb lower on a dyno, no chip, just to see what I get.
Be careful! I'd hate to see you roast your motor.
Ken
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From: Texas
Ken8oo
this is a little embarrassing- i ran my truck on the dyno with the delta chip in the off position, luckily the engine survived! when i saw the A/F numbers i freaked and started kickin myself in azz (13+ pounds on the autometer gauge: 2.8"asp upper & 4#lower) ! i know... anway fyi the chip made like +20hp (i'm goin from memory) when in performance mode and +26hp additional in race mode. so +46hp vs. stock computer. i will not do that again now that i have seen the extreme lean condition, blew past 17 and off the chart! go ahead let me have it but i just wasn't thinkin.
this is a little embarrassing- i ran my truck on the dyno with the delta chip in the off position, luckily the engine survived! when i saw the A/F numbers i freaked and started kickin myself in azz (13+ pounds on the autometer gauge: 2.8"asp upper & 4#lower) ! i know... anway fyi the chip made like +20hp (i'm goin from memory) when in performance mode and +26hp additional in race mode. so +46hp vs. stock computer. i will not do that again now that i have seen the extreme lean condition, blew past 17 and off the chart! go ahead let me have it but i just wasn't thinkin.
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From: Houston, tx
Hey, preaux.../
thanks for the info. Do you have the dyno chart? I'd love to see what the stock computer did...
Since you have changed the upper to a 2.8, that would put you at 2-3lbs over the stock L, meaning 10-11lbs of boost. Plus, you added 4lbs on the lower, so you are at like 14-15 pounds of boost, putting you at the same as the 8lb lower guys here possibly +9... That's pretty high for no chip, but remember, you dynoed with only a 1600 lb load which is far better than testing it on the 1/4 mile track with a lean condition...
thx
Ken
thanks for the info. Do you have the dyno chart? I'd love to see what the stock computer did...
Since you have changed the upper to a 2.8, that would put you at 2-3lbs over the stock L, meaning 10-11lbs of boost. Plus, you added 4lbs on the lower, so you are at like 14-15 pounds of boost, putting you at the same as the 8lb lower guys here possibly +9... That's pretty high for no chip, but remember, you dynoed with only a 1600 lb load which is far better than testing it on the 1/4 mile track with a lean condition...
thx
Ken
Last edited by ken800; Jan 20, 2003 at 08:46 PM.
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From: Texas
Ken800
i really have no idea what the 2.8" upper is compared to the L but it was my understanding that the pulley was an L unit and that it would be 2-3# over the stock HD unit, my previous tuner was wrong about a lot. i have since gone to Razor's but i just gave them my mod list and they burnt on two sides (P & R). as for actual boost, the gauge has shown almost 15# at times in cold weather, most the time 13-14#. is this normal? once i got a boost gauge and romped the truck i was suprised at the boost level when it got close to15#, shld have been more like 13 or that is what i thought. anyway i was then not sure about the accuracy of the gauge.
i don't know what i did with that particular result, it was run on my old chip burn (spikes on the results from rev limiter) and of little interest. i think i can get those pages from the shop where i had it done, the records are saved in their computer. i will give them a call and see about it. i kept the result for the all out race mode from that day and you can see the spikes at shift (i will post tonight). I'm still wondering if the truck should be dynoed thru all the gears? that's how they did it here.
i really have no idea what the 2.8" upper is compared to the L but it was my understanding that the pulley was an L unit and that it would be 2-3# over the stock HD unit, my previous tuner was wrong about a lot. i have since gone to Razor's but i just gave them my mod list and they burnt on two sides (P & R). as for actual boost, the gauge has shown almost 15# at times in cold weather, most the time 13-14#. is this normal? once i got a boost gauge and romped the truck i was suprised at the boost level when it got close to15#, shld have been more like 13 or that is what i thought. anyway i was then not sure about the accuracy of the gauge.
i don't know what i did with that particular result, it was run on my old chip burn (spikes on the results from rev limiter) and of little interest. i think i can get those pages from the shop where i had it done, the records are saved in their computer. i will give them a call and see about it. i kept the result for the all out race mode from that day and you can see the spikes at shift (i will post tonight). I'm still wondering if the truck should be dynoed thru all the gears? that's how they did it here.