Interesting. In Florida, prosecutors can decide if they want to try people under 18 as adults or juveniles. There isn't any limit. It's totally up to the prosecutors.

Florida just convicted two brothers, 12 and 13, of murder as adults. The prosecutors attitude was that if anybody can kill another, then that person is old enough to be tried as an adult.

Can't wait to see a 9 and 10 year old get tried as an adult in Florida.

Oh yeah, the interesting thing is, these two kids were convicted of murder and the adult who was accused of swinging the bat was acquitted.

Tell me, how can a 12 or 13 year old make decisions in their defense if they're considered adults?

Florida = Scary

 

I thought the kids confessed to swinging the bat? I am
incorrect? What exactly was the relationship between
the kids and the accused adult? Do you have any idea
at what age a person can be put to death in Florida?
Seems like it is a pretty young age.

 

Don't know if they confessed to swinging the bat. Only read about the results of the trial on Reuter's today and it didn't say they and confessed. Part of the story was that an adult was prosecuted and acquitted for swinging the bat and killing the father. I could be mistaken about this.

The thing that caught my eye was the fact that the prosecutor can decide if a child is an adult or not. Article made it sound like there really is no guideline and the attitude of the prosecutor made it sound like any kid can be charged with murder and tried as an adult no matter how young that kid is. That's what scares me.

Makes it sound like shooting arrows in a barrel by charging a kid with murder as an adult and that kid won't know what the hell is going on or make decisions for him or herself in their defense. It's practically a slam dunk for prosecutors. Even more so if the kid can't afford the best defense. Sheesh! How does a 12 year old kid choose a defense attorney?

 

Since the 2 boys tried to lie so that they could get away with murder, that proves that they knew the difference between right and wrong. Which is why they were tried as they were. Florida law is a good deterrent to murder. If you want to get the least amount of jail time, kill somone in Mass. or Conn. Don't do it down South

 

It's typically a lower age in the South. I agree these boys
knew the difference between right and wrong, but don't know
if they should be tried as adults. As for Florida law being
a good deterrent, I don't know if anything is a good
deterrent. It's already been proven time and time again
that the death penalty is no deterrent. I really don't think
trying kids as adults is a deterrent. This problem has no '
easy answer. The sad thing is that this is more common than
ever.

 

I used to work in a maximum security juvi place back in my college days.
Some of those 12 and 13 year old kids are the most evil little monsters that were ever created.
... and don't let their ages fool you, most of those bad kids are street smart and know exactly what is right and wrong.

I say don't make a predefined age limit.
Treat each case on an individual basis, everyone is different.

While it's been proven that tough sentences don't serve as a deterrent, it's obvious that this decision reflects societies feeling as a whole.

People are just sick and tired of being victimized.

Habibi

 

Hmmm Right and Wrong? Donn't most human beings know the difference by the time they can dress themselves. YES!!!! Pity that as a "highly developed society" we as a nation fall on our face when it comes to common sense. Funny how we are the only species on Earth that knows right from wrong but we can destroy everything on it including ourselves. OPPS!!! >I guess we donn't know right from wrong Forgive us please. LIBERAL=SCARY

 

I say we throw 5 year olds in prison who can't color inside the lines.

 

This is sad & scary - I'm not sure I have any reasonable answers. I do agree though that allowing a prosecutor to decide the way a minor is going to be tried is a bit dangerous. What if a specific prosecutor has children & leans toward emotion & allows that to color their views? What if the prosecutor doesn't like children? Way too arbitrary!
On the other hand we cannot set a blanket age limit either. Yes we are taught right from worng at an early age IF we have a stable home enviornment & parent(s) capable of understanding the principles themselves. I'm not blaming parents in general but some leave a LOT to be desired in their parenting skills.
I guess the only way to handle situations such as these which are becoming ALARMINGLY more frequent is to do it on a case by case basis. However I would like to see these decisions made by more than a single person.
From what I heard, the boys did confess & then recanted the confessions. Supposedly 1 of them had been having sexual relations w/the adult who was acquitted & stated he was "in love" with that man. Presumably they killed the father because he may have put a stop to what was going on - that was 1 report I heard while the trial was underway.
As for being able to afford good defense representation I THINK it would have been appointed by the state. Again I am not sure.

 

Scary=LARM1 Hmmmm age has nothing to do with the capacity of intelligence. We treat children in this country as if they were kids on the Brandy Bunch. Looking at history, does anybody see the relationship of "social reform and understanding" with the increase of juvenile violence??? Taking responsibility for one's own actions and the consequences there after is such a basic foundation of a civilized society. Applying different rules toward people open it up to unstability. I ask any Liberal that if one commits a crime and they "donn't" know it was wrong, then why is it they run or try to hide it?????? It is always "someone" else's fault....Eh? Remember to tell that to the person who kills your loved one......This is WAY beyond stealing cookies from a jar!

 

"Age has nothing to do with the capacity of intelligence."
That one, even I know is wrong.

"We treat kids as if they were on the Brady Bunch."
Huh?

"Taking responsibility for one's own actions and the
consqequences thereafter is such a basic foundation
of a civilized society."

These are some basic foundations for a "civilized" society:
1. common language
2. common religion
3. law
4. government framework (constitution)

"Taking responsibility for actions and accepting consequences"
are characteristics for many "civilizations" around the planet.
African, European, Asian...You name it. Taking responsibility
are traits carried by many peoples on this planet, whether
they are "civilized" by western definitions or not.

Yankee=scary

 

Trapper #1 Yes citizen age has nothing to do with the capacity of intelligence. You are an example Wisdom on the other hand does. You are confusing the two. Intelligence is what you are born with....knowledge is what you learn. Again you are confusing the two. One can gain MUCH knowledge but not have much intelligence. Of course they didn't teach you that in school did they? They still donn't.
#2 Yes we treat kids like in the Brady Bunch.... a fantasy world that they donn't know what is going on around them and are incapable of understanding until the magical age of 18. You my friend are VERY out of touch with the rest of the world and history. This is common conversation with European and Asian friends but then again they donn't have a common religion or language like your own so you wouldn't know.
#3 Your "4" foundations of a civilized society are wrong except for one... LAW. That citizen is ALL you need. Common communication......NOT a common language is what is needed for a society to function. Again some bias on your part is being shown. But wait! Common religion????????? Where did that come from?????? Now you are forcing beliefs upon a people????? Trapper= SCARY to the 10th power!!!!!!! I'll let the last one slide as again intelligence has nothing to do with knowledge. A society need not have a functional government( as you are thinking of) to survive ....only LAW.
#4 Your last point????????????? What are you trying to infer? Taking responsbility is just that....civil is defined as being able to function as a peaceful common unit. Again you lost the point...I'm NOT talking economics here. Once again you show knowledge is not equal to intelligence and I'm NOT calling you stupid.
You either get it or you donn't or wonn't. Why are people afraid to play by the same rules????
Point is that if you cannot commit ONE sets of rules that are absolute then you open up yourself to failures and there are many many many in this country because of this.

 

Yes, that's right students. Those people you say I don't
understand, I teach them world history 6 periods a day.
Or rather, we teach each other 6 periods a day. These
kids are well aware of the events in the world today.
They are not in some Brady Bunch world as you have
suggested. They are more aware of the world than
people of my generation ever were. Who are these
people you refer to that keep treating them like that?
You haven't mentioned that yet. Are you refering to
society as a whole that treats them in that manner?


Europeans don't have a common religion? OOOkay!
That whole Christianity thing is just a myth I suppose.

The rest of your rambling diatribe is just to idiotic.
How in the crap do you have common communication
without a common language? I guess maybe they
just mime everything. NO no... I know, maybe they used
body language.

Societies all over this planet gather and form with
commonalities like religion & language. How can you
possibly suggest otherwise. Why don't you give me
an example of a society, modern or otherwise that
began without either of those.

How can you say I'm forcing beliefs and showing bias?
Exactly where did I do that? I have never shown bias
toward any religion or society, either here on the boards
or in my classes. Where did I say or imply that? Where
are you getting all this stuff? Are you making it up as
you go along. Don't attribute things to me that I did not
say.

Oh, the correct spelling is don't and won't. Be careful, you
are showing your lack of intelligence....
or knowledge if you prefer.

Trapper=correct spelling 90% of the time

 

I have conflicted feelings about this whole thing and both sides are making good arguments.

Here's where I have a problem.

1. If a 12 year old can be tried as an adult in court, does that mean a 12 year old is also an adult? Can the 12 year old saunter up to a bar and buy a beer? Can the 12 year old vote?

2. If a 12 year old can be tried as an adult, can an innocent 9 year old also be tried? It would be duck soup to try and convict a child who doesn't have any concept of what's going on. The prosecutors' success rates would be near 100% if they specialized in trying and convicting kids as adults.

3. Shouldn't there be a limit or at least some kind of consensus between reasonable parties that an under 18 year old be tried as an adult? Florida law allows a single person to make that determination. That alone is rather scary.

4. A 5 year old may know what's right and wrong, but does that 5 year old know what it means and what the consequences are? Does a 12 year old truly know what the consequences are? Adults know what the consequences are, do 12 year olds? Do they even know what life in prison means? Maybe a 12 year old wasn't taught these things. That's why we have juvenile laws which gives society a chance to teach these kids what the consequences are so they can grow up to be law abiding adults. If it doesn't work, they go back to jail.

5. What's the limit in Florida? Will we see a day when a prosecutor goes after a 3 year old?

I'm no expert, but it seems that Florida has passed a lousy law and it needs to be fixed. Such a law giving a single person, the prosecutor, such power is beyond me.

 

Trapper....ahhhh yes that explains it all a "teacher" guess you "know your stuff" HA ha just another product of a failed educational system.......you donn't understand unless you were taught it. Ok now here's where it gets off track when you get into spelling.....who cares in a casual conversation? guess you shouldn't use slang either? Want to learn from your peers? Go overseas. Just because you are a professional baby sitter doesn't make you an intelligent person...........you can memorize lots of stuff but can you understand it? I see it makes you mad when you donn't understand something....point did you not list 4 properties of civilized society? Religion...language??? These are your beliefs??? Common Religion DOES NOT MAKE for a civilized society...more has been done in injustice and violence in it's name. Christianity is not a single religion...........more christians have killed each other for their own names. Each has their own bias toward outsiders. Oh you are such a product of a failed educational system. Ever hear about the European wars???? Let alone experience life as it is throughout the world?? Religon has done more to hurt society than bring it together. About the language thing.....guess your experiences with the outside world have been limited....society can function without a common language.....it's called communication.....know let me think....how would I communicate with someone I could not speak with? Examples? Every major country in the world. Pity we are stuck with minds like yours to teach our future. Donn't think you are special cause your "job" is to teach......your not...... a computer would do a MUCH bettter job..... wonn't disscuss this with you any longer as you wonn't understand because you donn't have the intelligence to. Back to the original point.....why cann't we play by all the same rules?