I was given this link & thought some of you may want to check it out too. It's a chance to vote your conscience in regards to the Pledge of Alliegience & the words "Under God" - keep them or remove them.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ledge-hold.htm

 

I wonder how many people know the actual history of the Pledge and when and why "Under God" was added to it?

You'll find the answers to both quite an eye opener. Startling, in fact.

 

i cant believe they would even consider removing 'under God". "...saying the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is unconstitutional...", i personally dont consider that unconstitutional at all!

 

Umm... When was the last time you read the Constitution?

 

I read it last year. When the founding fathers were referring to the "seperation of church and state" they are referring to GOVERMENT SANCTIONED AND IMPOSED RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. Saying "one nation under god" is not 'forced' on anyone. It neither condones or implies any religious beliefs. Your God could be the almighty dollar in that case. If one does not agree with that part of the pledge, they are not forced to say it. No one is holding a gun to anyones head in this country.

What was really funny was earlier this year i was watching fox news channel and they were interviewing the man that sued in order for it to be removed. He mentioned that he was receiving death threats and the such. The interviewer asked him what he was doing to protect himself. He mentioned he had installed an alarm system and then he had a Freudian Slip and said "PRAYING". I almost choked! The interviewer said, "but I thought you were an atheist, who are you praying to? He dodged the question.

 

I think they should remove it for one reason only.

To get rid of all the excuses of the sniveling, whiney, pos people using it as nothing other than an excuse to not say the pledge!

People in this country as so litigious that they will keep briging lawsuits. Just drop it. Probably the majority will still say the words "under God" but since it isn't in the pledge the whiners will just have to suck it up!

Just my opinion, but the younger generations these days seem to be much less patriotic than the older. If we let that keep slipping then who knows what type of US our kids will end up living in? The people causing all the problems with the pledge are morons IMO, but if allowing the change promotes patriotism it may be worth it. Anyone with religious beliefs will still recite the edited wording anyway.



Frank,

Though I have no problem with the pledge as is, I can see the point of the word God showing religious intent. Your comment about the moron with the lawsuit just proves my point though, he is taking legal action simply because he can.

 

What really gets me is the Christian attitude. It always ends up with me thinking that Christians, especially the very vocal ones, all think that their religion is the ONLY religion there is and that everybody else has to see things their way. It's either the Christian way or the highway. The Religious Right political party is pretty much the poster boy for this attitude.

Clearly, Christians are used to bending words and rules. For instance, how can a person think any less of their mother than their father? In the Bible, women are thought of as being less than men. For instance, if a woman is an adulterer, she must be stoned until she's killed. The Bible doesn't say a husband guilty of adultery must also be killed. How about the fact that a lot of Christians are hog farmers and consumers of hogs? Doesn't it say in the Bible that good Christians are not supposed to eat hogs or any animal with cloven feet?

What about the Ten Commandments? Thou shalt not kill. There are no exceptions as far as I can see. Haven't a lot of Christians killed others in wars? Haven't Christians been in many religious wars where humans on both sides are killed?

When you all stop being hypocrits I'll start taking you seriously. Until then, you live in this country and you are governed by a body that must follow the Constitution. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says we all must believe in God. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says we all must be Christians. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says we are allowed to discriminate against non-Christians. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says an individual has no rights.

It's high time that anything that's funded with public money, such as the Federal Government, must be of a non-religious nature for the simple reason that according to the Constitution, a single atheist has an equal right as that of a religious person. Therefore, the atheist cannot be forced to participate in a religious activity, nor can that atheist be forced to help fund such activity.

 

C'mon D, where's the tolerance? You give your atheistic opinions. Christians can't? This is America. I would die for your right to say what you want. Would you die for mine?

False.


Old testament law, doesn't apply today.


False.



False.


According to the Old Testament. Even if that did apply today, people do things that are wrong. Don't you Dennis? That is where forgiveness comes in. And I must mention, using forgiveness to go out and do the wrong thing, just because you know you will be forgiven is wrong. We all make mistakes. I've never walked on water. I'm sure I've p.o'ed some people off on this board before. But I have also helped a bunch also. I can live my live easier being able to admit when I've made mistakes. Of course that's just me. One of the things I had to get over was not looking to other 'Christians' for perfection. You've got to look to Him. Otherwise Dennis, you will be left disappointed.

Be honest with yourself Dennis, you will never take anyone seriously or respect someone with a different religious preference. By calling someone a "hypocrite", without even really knowing someone is a slippery slope to be headed down. If I go out and buy a Chevy truck that would make me a hypocrite Ford man. Hypocrites are in every walk of life. That doesn't mean that they're gonna fry for making mistakes.

To keep this on topic. I voted and I'm sure you can guess how.

 

The funny thing about all of this is, I was baptised and brouht up a Christian and was taught that God is loving. I was also taught be tolerant and forgiving. One of the earliest lessons I remember was to "turn the other cheek." Another lesson was to not hate anybody.

Why is it that some Christians are tolerant and forgiving, but others are not? Why is it that the Christians who are not tolerant and forgiving are also the ones most vocal and most politically connected as in the Religious Right? Why do some Christians, such as the Religious Right, believe that the country MUST do what they think is right even if it goes against the Constitution? Why is it that so many Christians are so unwilling to turn the other cheek? Why is it that so many Christians are filled with so much hate and unforgiveness?

It makes me ashamed to call myself a Christian. It's why I haven't been to church in many years. Too much hypocracy. Too much hate. Too much persecution.

I believe in the Constitution, so I also have to believe in the rights of atheists. I believe in the Constitution so I have to believe that nobody can force religion on another in this country. I believe in the Constitution, so I believe that the Buddhists have the same rights as everybody else.

How can a Buddhist, atheist, or any other group who does not believe in God, be expected to say the Pledge in it's present form? Oh, you may say they don't have to say "under God," but you and I know that if a person didn't say "under God" in certain parts of the country or in certain situations, that person would be ridiculed, persecuted, and in some cases beaten or killed.

Dwight Eisenhower should have vetoed the bill that added the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance back in 1954. The only reason he didn't was because he didn't have the guts.

BTW, isn't the Bible the Bible? Old Testament. New Testament. Seems to me there are Christians who are willing to change things to suit their wants and desires. Seems they are allowed to ignore things which they don't agree with. I gotta wonder what the Newer Testament will be. Will that be followed by the Even Newer Testament?

Funny how Christians were once persecuted, but some have now become the persecutors.

I will continue to believe that the Religious Right are hypocrits. Pat Robertson is one of the biggest hypocrits with Jerry Falwell right behind. I suppose we shouldn't forget the likes of Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baaker, etc.

If it came up for a vote, I'd vote to return the Pledge to the pre-1954 version. It's the right thing to do, Constitutionally speaking. God and Religion should be taught by the churches and families. Leave God and Religion out of Government and politics. If we allow God and Religion into Government, we will eventually be governed by Religion and that is something I cannot tolerate.

Do you people really want religion in Government? Are you willing to pay the price?

 

I'll try to answer your questions without writing a novel here. Some Christians are intolerant and most aren't. I've met Christians and a few atheists who feel that they must push their opinions/beliefs on other people, whether you like them or not. I guess that's part of being human. I've always taken the attitude that I'll let someone know what I think, after that, it's up to them. We can choose free will, we've just got to be prepared to answer to the consequences.

I've always felt that since their scandals they should've given up preaching. I think the Bible says something about this also. The best evangelists are usually in a church near you and not on TV. I never could respect Pat Robertson since the '88 election. He said God told him to run for President. I personally don't think God would tell him to run with the intention of him losing. But as I said before, we all make mistakes. Unfortunately, these men make other Christians appear to be hypocrites sometimes.

That isn't what I want. I do believe that people should have the right to pray in school though. If a child is an atheist, it is their parents right to say that you are not forced to pray. Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion.

 

The trouble with allowing prayer in publicly funded schools is that it's allowing a religious activity on the public's dime. Aside from that it can be an even greater problem for that kid and the kid's family if they are living in the "Bible belt." Peer pressure and ostracism by the community is a real possibility. The Constitution works to prevent that possibility.

I have no problem with praying in parochial schools that are built and run with private money, but to have an organized prayer in a school that my tax money went to build and run, I have a big problem with. Look at it this way, do you feel good that your money might be going to fund praying in a Muslim school? What if you're Jewish? How would you feel then?

You have to look at things from all angles. You can't have it one way and ignore the rest. The Constitution works to help eliminate and prevent these problems.

 

If the school is American (that is, funded by Americans, for Americans in America) what difference does it make if it's Catholic, Muslim, Jewish or if the person worships dirt? The public pays money to send their children to Athiest schools (which is formally recognized as a religion now), so why can schools that support religion not recieve the same benifits? It's because Liberals decided that Freedom of Religion means "I don't like your views, so I'm gonna **** you off by getting them removed from public," essentially. It's simple. If you don't want your child to be in a Jewish school, you don't send them to one.

If I meet someone who is mixed up and confused, looking for a way to get some help, and they don't believe in God, then yes, I do try to convert them. It's something Christians do. It's called "spreading the Word." Maybe you've heard of it? But because I try to help people come to God doesn't mean that I press my views on others.

Why, yes, I am. If the price means that I have to put up with more people who believe in God. Wow... that would mean that I have a chance of meeting everyone I know in heaven again... imagine that. But I guess that would really make us "one nation under God." Can't have that now, can we? Or can we?

Answer me this: what would be wrong with having a moment to pray/meditate/clear your mind in the mornings at school? If your Athiest, you don't have to do it! Twiddle your thumbs! Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you have to force everyone to stop practicing their beliefs. If you don't want to say "under God" when you recite the Pledge of Allegiance, great. Don't say it. But don't force your beliefs on me. Sounds kinda like those "religious radicals" you were talking about, huh?

You're right. Including the belief in God side.

-Flea

 

Darn buttons stuck - sorry again! LOL!

 

Double post - sorry!

 

Okay - I simply wanted to give everyone a here the opportunity to cast a vote - something EVERY AMERICAN treasures if I'm not mistaken.
I voted to keep the words & NOT for the reasons or conclusions many would jump to - I'll explain.
This is MY country - OUR country. I do not appreciate a foreigner or "alien" going around making policy for me. My Dad fought for this country as did all my Uncles. Some of my Great Uncles died in WW1 or wish they had after being hit w/nitrogen mustard gas. THEY & their descendants have the right to speak out, change policies or make new ones - NOT FOREIGNERS! We have NO, ZERO,NADA ZILCH, ZIP for rights the minute we set foot outside our borders.
That being said, I also object to a MINORITY of the people deciding policy here. Our elections are decided by MAJORITY VOTES - always has & hopefully always will be! I am NOT speaking of MINORITIES - simply a minority based on numbers so do NOT jump on me for that. BECAUSE I AM A CATHOLIC/CHRISTIAN I SUPPORT & DEFEND ALL MINORITY RIGHTS! I always admired Lincoln as our best President because he abolished slavery. I am 1 who does not see a person's skin color but I do see the colors of their heart & that is what I consider important.
As for the Pledge - WHO SAID GOD IS ONLY A CHRISTIAN GOD? Allah is the Muslim GOD, Buddah is his followers GOD, Yaweh is the Jewish GOD, Jehovah is a GOD to his people & on & on. GOD is anyone we choose to believe Him to be & it's a private matter for each person to choose.
May I remind those who keep quoting the Constitution & Bill of Rights & Declaration of Independence - THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! THAT is why we left England - that & the fact that we were NOT being heard - our voices were drowned out by a MINORITY of people, namely the lawmakers there & we were sick of it! FREEDOM has ALWAYS been of paramount importance in the US. In fact, it's that VERY SAME GUARANTEE of FREEDOM OF SPEECH that makes people like me, a LADY first & foremost have to suffer thru vulgar, sick & profane language! Oh NO we can't, we WON'T stiffle someone's right to OFFEND - just to believe in God! We can say the F word but NOT the G word! We can show sex & promiscuity on TV, in movies & print but GOD FORBID we say GOD - then we're shunned, ridiculed & persecuted for believing! Want to know something? It's the loss of belief in ANYTHING good - morals, truth, honesty - GOD - that has led us down the road to ruin we are on! Think about it - compare life today to years gone by & look at the rise in crimes! Look at how 50% of marriages end in divorce! Look at how kids are stolen every day it seems & found murdered usually - what OTHER country can "boast" of these stats? None that I've heard of! Hell - we don't even believe in ourselves anymore & those who do are WAY into themselves & not into humanity as a whole.
Quote the Bible, Koran or Torah - spit out lines from ANY of our founding documents - it all points to 1 thin g - the MAJORITY of the world's people have a spiritual belief, they crave the opportunity - the RIGHT to practice that faith & they are willing to die for it.
Would I die to defend YOUR beliefs? If you had any - YES! But would I die to defend an opinion? No - sorry but I have more important things to do to try helping my fellow man or woman thru life.
Oh - the Bible illustrates the ELEVATION of women from the Old Testament views to the New Testament - Jesus was born to a woman - He did not just mysteriously appear as an adult - His Mother is even revered by Muslim's as a Holy & good woman so don't think that, as a woman & a Catholic I am in any way downtrodden or thought of as any less valuable or worthwhile as the men of my faith. I assure you - the Church treats women the way they should be treated - with respect. Then again, women need to BEHAVE in a way that earns that respect.
Sorry this is long but I had to voice MY OPINIONS - it's my GOD GIVEN RIGHT as a CATHOLIC, an AMERICAN, a WOMAN.
God Bless everyone, even if we disagree.