So I'm getting of the Mass Pike this morning, stop to pay my toll, and pull away from the toll booth. There are no cars around me, so I roll into it, and it barks second gear at about 30mph. However, I have my spare tire on the back because of that nail incident a few days ago, which makes wayyyyy more noise than F1's do. I accelerate some more on the straightaway, then slow down to take the actual ramp. I'm about 100 feet from the 3 lane, ~50mph road I'm about to merge onto, and a cop flies up behind me. There is no breakdown lane, so instead of pulling over right there at the top of the ramp, I put my blinker on, slow down a bit, and point to the hotel parking lot about 300 feet up the road. He follows behind me with his lights on, then about 30 feet from the entrance to the hotel, he turns his sirens on to (?).

He finally comes up to window and this guy was fuming. "LET ME SEE YOUR HANDS!", so I stick my hands out the window, with my license. "REGISTRATION!", so I get it out of the glove box. Then he asks how fast I was going, I said I wasn't sure, but probably 45 or so. He says, "BULZHIT! TRY 60!". He asks, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE SPEED LIMIT IS BACK THERE?!", and I said, "honestly sir, I don't". "IT's 25mph!!". Then he says, "AND WAS THAT YOU SQUEELING YOUR TIRES PULLING AWAY FROM THE TOLL BOOTH BACK THERE?!", and I said, "no sir, not when I was pulling away sir, it was when the truck shifted into 2nd". Then he says, "IS THIS A MANUAL?", and I said, "no sir, its an automatic", and he goes, "WELL HOW THE HELL WOULD IT HAVE SQUEELED THE TIRES WHEN IT SHIFTED INTO 2nd THEN?!", and instead of arguing with him or trying to explaing that I have probably close to 400rwhp, I just said, "sir, you're going to have to trust me". Then he asks where I was going, and I said I was on my way to work. He asked if I was late and that's why I was in such a hurry, and I said, "no sir, I'm not, this is the time I normally show up for work". He says, "OH YEAH? WHAT TIME IS IT THEN?!", and I said, "its about 9:45am". He goes, "You expect me to believe you show up for work at this time everyday (which I do), so I said "yes sir, I do". This is probably the best part: He goes, "WHERE DO YOU WORK?!", and I point to the fifth floor of the building 200 feet to our left...in the same parking lot!

He goes back to his cruiser for 10-15 minutes, and comes back with a ticket for $325!!!!! The first part is "failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" @ a whopping $100, which I think is total BS because I wasn't trying to evade him or anything, I was trying to NOT cause traffic or confusion on the main road we were on (with NO breakdown lane). I'm going to challenge the ticket, and I'm pretty sure I can get off this part at least.

The part I had the question about though is the $225 "speeding" part. He wrote on the citation that he "clocked/estimated" me doing "50+ in a 25mph". Here's the question: I'm pretty sure that the ramp itself has a yellow sign that says "25mph", but nowhere does it say "SPEED LIMIT". I've been told/discussed with a few people (even before this happened, and one of them is NOW a cop) that those yellow signs are a suggested speed, not a speed limit. There have also been talks about the SpeedPass speed signs, but since I'm one of those damn people that still pay by coin, I actually came to a complete stop, so that doesn't apply. What I've been told (and am hoping is true), is that the actual speed LIMIT on ramps (as opposed to the suggested speed on the yellow sign), defaults to the speed limit of the road you're pulling off of, until you see a new speed limit sign for the road you're pulling on to.

If anyone here is a police officer (preferably in Mass, but I'm not picky), or has had any similar experiences and can give me any info/advice one way or the other, I'd really appreciate it.

Also, are there any ways to look up the actual driving laws/statutes so I know that actual verbage of whats going on?

Thanks guys. Later...

GK

 

I'm not a cop, but i'm a criminal justice major. If he didn't have a radar gun and doesn't have any proof that you were actually going 60, then you can challenge it. I'm not sure why he charged you with $225 for speeding. Seems awful high to me. My Dad got a speeding ticket a few months ago for doing 45 in a 25 and the ticket was only $90 i think. Maybe it was $65, i can't remember.

If i were you, i wouldn't get a lawyer to challenge it because you'll end up paying your lawyer more than the tickets worth, so they you'll just lose more money. Sounds like the cop was just being a jerk. Too bad, because it gives a bad name to cops everywhere

I can see why he might have thought you were evading him though. But, if you didn't have any place to pull over, then you should tell that to the judge, and i'm sure they'll understand. Judges are usually pretty lenient with this kind of stuff.

 

On the citation in the speeding section, there are five possible boxes that can be checked:

(1) Posted
(2) Not Posted
(3) Clocked
(4) Radar
(5) Estimated

The officer checked "Posted, Clocked, and Estimated". I thought that clocked was when they follow you for some distance (like a measured mile), and time how long it took to cover that distance. Either that or them following you, but either way, when I noticed him behind me I was going slower than 45 I'm pretty sure. And he wrote 50+ in a 25, which to seems like an awful wide estimation (that would be like the weather man saying it will be between 30 and 80 degrees today). I don't know, maybe (of course) I'm just bitter because it happened to me, but this definitely didn't reassure my faith or support of the police officers I've had the (dis)pleasure of meeting. Thanks for your (continued) help.

Garrett

 

I'm not positive, but i think that 'clocked' means that they used the little speed gun that hooked up to the car. There's a speed sensor that sits on the dashboard, but it isn't very reliable because you can't focus on a single vehicle. It just emits a radar or something and gives back a reading on the display, so if there's a lot of traffic, it'll give readings from multiple vehicles. I'm not sure what 'posted' means. I'm in Ohio, and i'm not sure if we have something like that on out speeding tickets.

-sorry i can't be of more help

 

Definitely challenge it. He probably won't show up and you'll get it thrown out.

 

Sorry to keep dragging you into this Dan, but the one thing I'm sure of is that the police officer NEVER used RADAR or LASER in guestimating my speed! I have a Valentine 1 radar detector, which half of the people here swear is (atleast one of the) best available. I don't know how familiar you are with it, but it tells you: how many radar sources are in the area on a numerical display (up to nine I believe), what type of radar or laser each is using, how strong the signal is, AND what direction it is coming from. Its pretty gives you the most info of any detector on the market.

ANYWAYS, the whole point of that mini-dissertation is that at NO point during the whole (or)deal did the thing even think of lighting up or making a single, solitary noise. The cop never used anything except his (small) brain and (lack of better) judgement.

Also, I think "Posted" just means that the speed is shown on a sign for all to see. Now whether or not the speed that was posted is an actual legal limit...or a suggestion, it the question at hand.

Thanks.

Garrett

 

cop in UT who will "try" to answer your questions. shoot me an email and i'll give you my phone number at work so you can call me.

my opinion: based on the information you provided, the ticket is legitimate. but you can always plead not guilty (but remember that the cop is paid for his time in court, as is the judge and the prosecutor--you're not. police officers are not salaried (you think i'd work overtime on salary being paid as lousy as cops are? come one), and even if it's a day off, he gets paid for his time. the same may also be true for the prosecutor (if used in the jurisdiction--in UT traffic violations are still criminal offenses--dumb, but true)).

--Adam.

 

Holy Smokes, those are the options in Mass? I'm going to take a wild guess at this:

(3) Clocked - Vascar(??) - designed to record the distance traveled by a vehicle and the time taken to cover that distance. It then computes the average speed of that vehicle over the measured distance.

(4) Radar - Self Explanitory- Traffic radar calculates speed from the reflections it receives. It uses a phenomenon of physics know as the Doppler principle. We've all heard how the Doppler principle works with sound waves. The classic example is heard along railroad tracks. As the train approaches, you hear the sound at a fixed pitch. The instant the train passes and begins to move away, you hear a lower pitch. The train itself is making the same sound both coming and going, but t a stationary listener, the speed of the train adds to the pitch of its sound as it approaches, and subtracts as it departs. This change from true pitch is called the Doppler shift and the magnitude of the change depends only upon the speed of the train.

Traffic radar applies this Doppler principle to microwaves.
It compares the shifted frequency of the reflection to the original frequency of the beam it sent out and from the difference it calculates speed, which it then displays on its digital readout. That's all there is to traffic radar.

(5) Estimated - In order for an officer (at least in Georgia) to qualify and be certified on the use of (3) and (4), he must be able to correctly estimate a moving vehicles speed within (+/-) 2MPH without using radar/laser. That's where Mass. might have instituted the use of estimation. If the officer can estimate properly for radar/laser certification, then it's enough for the courts to uphold the officers testimony of speed.

We (in GA) could never get away with this. We would have to have a certified measuring device (radar/laser/vascar) and that measuring device must be annually tested/re-certified annually.

RE: MXRacer - sorry that you ran into problem officers. Your dislike for the officers leads me to believe that the only contact you have had with them is being caught doing something wrong. If your story holds true, I would say that officer was fairly unprofessional...but don't hold that against ALL officers.

I would definately fight both tickets. Before walking into court though, do some research on Mass.'s traffic laws ... especially rules of evidence. Make sure that the posted speed limits were within proper distance. The yellow signs are nothing more than informational warning signs and are not enforceable. Take pictures of the scene. Get a motion for discovery (grade of the road, officers certifications, latest road transportation survey, speed limit certifications from the transportation department). These are not things you have to provide, these are things the state must provide in proving their case.

Remember, you don't have to prove you WERE NOT speeding... The state MUST prove you were.

Good luck--if you do your homework and the state isn't professional enough to prove it's case, you should win both.

BTW, the above suggestions are from 18yrs of testifying in court proving a subject was speeding.

 

Sign usage is govened under your state laws. Typically, the state adopts the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) with slight variations (that's why things look pretty much the same from state to state. If the yellow 25 mph sign is the type you see under warning signs (yellow diamond signs - curve symbols, intersections, etc.), that is an "advisory speed" sign (W13-1). This is a recommended speed not the regulatory speed limit. The regulatory speed limit is governed by, you guessed it, "regulatory speed" signs, white rectangular signs with black text (R2-1).

If you search the web, you should be able to find a legal site with the actual state traffic/motor vehicle laws for your state; check the section regarding traffic control signs. Under W13-1 (everyone uses the MUTCD nomenclature) it should give the justification under which a given sign must be used be it a W13-1 or a R2-1.

If the 25 mph sign is a W13-1, the speed limit is govened by the last R2-1 you passed. If the last regulatory speed limit sign you passed was miles back, check the state laws regarding unposted speed limits (usually in the state's drivers manual) it should state something like in rural areas speed limit is 50 mph in resisdental and urban areas 25 mph.

Chack with a lawyer in your area, I'm just an engineer who does traffic work in PA. Hope this helps.

 

There's is no way around going to court on this one. Certainly not with a name like MXRacer. You need to contest it and with a little luck and strategy, you will be able to reduce much of the fines.

Research the laws at http://www.state.ma.us/law.htm You'll find plenty of info about traffic laws. Read the staet statutes section till you come across the info you need.

If you call the court clerk, maybe you can even schedule the court date for Thanksgiving or Christmas vacation. Even A$$hole cops have wives that drag them off to the in-laws for the holidays so he may not even be in town for the hearing.

Even if he does show up it doesn't sound like it would take much to get this guy to yell at you if front of the judge and they don't care much of that sort of attitude under their rule.

With a bit of research, you'll know more about the law than the officer and this will really **** him off when you question him on the witness stand about that mornings events

 

I really appreciate all the help guys, thanks.

Later...

GK

PS- AjRagno: The part about my name being MXRacer...how about the fact that my license plate is a close variation of it, which includes the word "RACE". Yeah, not good. But in all honesty, the MX stands for motocross, as I was the New England Amateur Champion...but I don't think a judge will appreciate it either way! Again, many thanks. Later...

 

check your local dmv for a current drivers handbook, for getting a license. the signs should be in there as far as regulatory or advisory. that way you would have it in writing to bring into court. written by your state.
clocked means either with radar or by pacing or by vascar. not just a guess. many officers are able to judge speed quite well however it is not usually allowed in court as evidence.
as far as not stopping you should be able to get that one dropped quite easily if you get a decent judge, by explaining it just as you did here. pictures of that stretch of road with no shoulder wouldn't hurt.
one problem, here in wis. anyway if you break the tires loose thereby causing them to squeal you have lost control of the vehicle and if done intentionally can be considered wreckless driving. so even if you get the other two dropped they may still hit you for barking the tires.
good luck
terry

 

MXRacer,

I knew what your name meant, it was just a pun.

It's interesting that your licence plate has "RACE" on it. Depending on how you bring it up, the officer may admit that the licence plate infuenced his opinion of how fast you were going.

quickdraw, makes a point that I would consider if I had received a speeding ticket. (regardless of whether or not I broke the law) The point is that everyone that works for the court gets payed but you don't. They are salaried though so it's not as though the officer gets $20.00 an hour, it's part of his job and he needs to schedule court appearances on his day off.

My point is that life can be very interesting and participating in a court hearing can be a lot of fun. I've always had the impression that it's just a game of who knows more and who is more affable.
Depending on how much effort you put into this you could drain the court of potentially thousands of dollars by delaying and drawing out your presentation and filing extentions. It's selfish but individual states/counties/municipals makes hundreds of thousands of dollars isssuing bogus tickets every year. By draining the system of funds you can feel a whole lot better that they didn't take advantage of you.

I hope you fight the ticket

 

fight it fight it fight it my g/f got out of a ticket because when she went to court the guy never showed up. in TX 25 over the limit(cop put 50 in a 25 so you are over 25) you cant take defensive driving to take it off your record and it stick on your insurance for a while for me it was 3 years. So the 25 over might have been what he was trying to do

good luck

 

I believe MA law allows ANY law enforcement officer from the citing division to represent that division in all traffic offenses. This was enacted to reduce overtime costs AND abuses regarding court (witness) appearences. Chances are slim that you will even see the citing officer in court on non-criminal matters. However, due not let this influence your decision to fight the case. Tell the judge your side. There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth. Good luck, ennis.