Here we go again....

1. Teachers, the long term issue is the benefits not the pay. It is a case of putting the underfunded pension liabilities on the taxpayers or having the unionized state employees put more towards their retirement ( just like the non unionized employees do ).
BTW : Teachers pay & Pension are funded by property taxes, or at least this is where all the is to come from ( less a short fall cause state income tax increases to fund this ).
Make note here, property tax in the STATE.



2. Why are you bringing in the American Steel Workers ?
Not one thing about WI, IN, and NJ has to do with unions at private companies, only the unions that are being funded from state tax payers ( the ones being extorted for more money ).
It does take a try at making the problem sound more wide spread than it is. Get this one from the MSM ?

Part was already the defense budget, part was raised via funding appropriations. Just like the pave America beautiful program, where did those billions come from, and did it benefit everyone or just the union contractors that did the paving ?

They did not bail them out, as the MSM would have you believe.
If you think the government bailed them out, then the bank bailed you out on your house.
The "bail out" was a loan program, not a give away program. The MSM will never clarify this, you would actually know what is going on if they did.
The loans are in the process of being paid back with interest. A good chunk of the "almost $1T" (the figure the media liked to toss around) has been paid off.
BofA was forced to take a loan until the stress tests were done. They did not need the money, and when they paid back the forced loan, the interest on it was $ 1B. Sounds like extortion to me. This was not part of the Bush program, the stress test and mandatory loans were an idea from another administration, not the bush one.

That is a dem statement if I ever heard one ( and I have heard this so many times it is not funny ).
The 1st invasion was why again ??? That is right, Saddam was invading another nation, and the US security council had to act.
The UN forces got Saddam out of Kuwait, and pushed them back, war over. It was not his GW's daddy's war. Oh let's add that Kuwait paid for the majority of the 1st Iraq invasion.

I love how Saddam gets a free pass for doing the same thing Milosevic was doing in Yugoslavia ( which both are on par with what Hitler was doing ). That's right, France ( high ranking position in the UN Security council ) got a lot of their oil from Iraq and Iran, and while outraged by the actions in Yugoslavia, would rather play the wait and see game, so the flow of their oil is not interrupted. France is doing the same thing with the issues in Iran, wait and see and keep the oil flowing.

Guess if what happened in Iraq was wrong, by extension that makes invading Yugoslavia wrong, and going after Germany in WW-II wrong.....

The MSM would never compare the above, less they look anti-Semitic, best to vilify the GOP for being gun loving war mongers.

 

I respect our military members and the efforts they put forth. I have many friends that are in the military. They are separated from their families and sent off to hell to do something few of us would ever want to do.

That said, I can support those given the task to do something that I don't support.

Frankly I supported the effort to go to Afghanistan. If Bin Laden was the perpetrator of 9/11 then by all means get the bastard.

Iraq was a different beast. The first time he attacked an ally of ours and tried to take them over. If you wanted to kill the idiot, do it then. A decade later they devise a plan to divert our efforts from the real problem to take care of a pet project.

Outcome:

Afghanistan: we got some of the lower guys but the evil head is still there, we disenfranchised our allies by abandoning them to take care of a pet project and still have a terror network that may be just as strong if not stronger than ever to deal with.

Iraq: invaded Iraq, got Saddam and his group, turned a reasonably stable place into a land of anarchy, lost all control of the place and now it is a breeding ground for terrorists, emboldened Iran to make them 10x the threat they ever were before, then we plan to leave soon so that a decade's work will go to lay the ground for all hell to break loose there.

That is what a couple TRILLION dollars has gotten is in a decade of disarray.

I support the effort in Afghanistan and still do in principle but I do feel it is a losing effort there. The Soviets spent 20 years there and accomplished nothing and we're about to do the same. Had we focused on Afghanistan and left Iraq alone we just may have gotten Bin Laden and have a re-energized America. Instead we have a beaten down population that feels hapless and is going down the toilet fast.

I love how we then say...well we freed the Iraqis and brought democracy. If they want it they need to make the effort. Egypt did, Libya has, etc.

 

Interesting why Obama hasn't ended the wars there or Afghanistan.

Also interesting that the msm no longer reports the names/ranks of our dead soldiers since Obama took office over 2years ago.

 

Sure the weapons found, and those that made it out of the country on a Syrian flagged ship have nothing to do with it, it is all about "finishing his dad's war". Sure GH got Saddam to invade Kuwait, so he could join a war...

You make it sound like there is not a single US soldier there, where this is a case of the UN force there is not happy with the US not providing the most of the resources ( as in 90% + like any other conflict the UN undertakes ). The US forces are still 7x what the next closest is ( UK ) and still makes up easily over 60% of the troops on the ground. They are not happy with this why ?

Killing off ethnic groups is considered "reasonably stable" ?
Guess we should not have sent 1 bit of resource to Yugoslavia if that is the case. Good to know that you call killing 1,000s of citizens reasonably stable...

Considering you do not like the amount of money spent, what would be an appropriate amount. Don't forget the investment in Yugoslavia when coming up with a number. That was not cheap ( was not $ 1T either ) , and unlike the 1st trip to Iraq, we did not see a dime from Yugoslavia.
Just want to know what you value a human life at, considering the thousands saved are not worth $ 1T.

The reason the Soviets spent so long fighting a losing battle is the will of the people, and the US sticking their nose in it.
The Soviets are doing the same thing to us know, along with our alleged allies from Pakistan giving it to the US from behind.

I for one did not understand the cold war threat of the Soviets taking over Afghanistan, but could just be an ill formed opinion on my part.
Should have let the Soviets park right up against Iran, that might have cured a lot of problems with Iran, had they been focused on the Soviets as their next door neighbor.

Bet Pakistan would be a little more cooperative with the Soviets next door also, none of this passive aggressive BS they are pulling now.

Egypt and Libya are not under the same state rule as Iraq was.
The potential uprisings were put down by killing off the group that might start it. Cure a problem that did not exist by killing off thousands.
Think another ruler of a country did this once upon a time....

 

George HW Bush did not get Saddam to attack Kuwait. Saddam had a dispute with Kuwait and wrongly invaded. We had every reason to go in there then to support our ally. If we wanted to get Saddam, that was the time.

I haven't seen anything about weapons running to Syria. Again, you can have all the weapons in the world but you have to be able to get them somewhere. That is the trick. The SCUDs on Israel weren't all that effective. You really think he big time nukes? Doubt it. If we are so worried about a crazy person having nukes...what about the nut job in N. Korea...I don't know about you but that guy makes Saddam seem like a nice guy and quite stable.


Yeah we have the bulk of them now after our allies got pissed and said funk it...why should we be getting our heads beat in while they aren't here? They are the ones that got hit. If we focused our attention on Afghanistan we wouldn't still be hunting shadows in caves.



What happens within a sovereign land is their business. We don't have to be the world's police department. If the UN decides to intervene, we can pitch some help. There was no one else screaming to invade Iraq at that time. The Kurds will gassed in 1988. We didn't do anything then? Why not?


If it is an AMERICAN life, I say we do everything humanly possible. If not...not our business. We do not have the means to fight everyone's battles. We have plenty of sick, homeless, uneducated, underprivileged people right here at home to help.


We were in a pissing contest with the Soviets and scared to death that they could have more power than us. We spent our selves broke (Reagan more than tripled the national debt in 8 years that had amassed in 200 YEARS!!!) trying to keep up with them. Guess what? The Soviet Union would have fallen anyway....the cracks were there in the 1960's and just kept getting bigger.

Had we not put our nose into Afghanistan while the Soviets were fighting there, 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened. Bin Laden was our boy then. We propped him up and gave him weapons. Once the Soviets left, we abandoned Bin Laden as he was no longer useful and he paid us back with his gratitude!!!

Had the Soviets had control of Afghanistan, maybe Iran wouldn't be the pain they are. With Saddam there in Iraq, Iran was a nuisance but little more.

Pakistan has a tight rope to walk. They have a lot of sympathizers with Bin Laden. It is what it is. The Pakistani's don't exactly trust us either since we are close to India. The friend of my enemy is my enemy you know?

Yes Hitler did that. Again we didn't rush to the aid of the Kurds in 1988 when it happened did we?

Egypt was under a hard line ruler but again he was friendly with us so we didn't care.

Gaddafi had made nice with us recently so again not a big deal. Still not so nice to his people.

We give "most favored nation status" to China but have an embargo against Cuba because of human rights violations! Load of crap or what?

 

Do you not feel that Bin Laden should be brought to justice?

 

This is true in IL for the most part. I don't know about the rest of the country. Look at taxes and the corresponding schools. For example if you look at the Naperville schools that get a lot of tax funding or Winnetka, they have pretty good schools. Compare that to the likes of East Aurora or U-46 and they have crappy schools. Money makes better a lot of times. Plus the wealthier districts don't have problems like kids that don't speak English, gangs, etc.

I didn't throw this ball...so no answer


We wouldn't have the bloated defense budget if we weren't at war. Again we are spending money that we are printing! If you don't like roads that don't have potholes that swallow cars...better go off road!

Yeah it was a loan...so isn't the deal with GM and Chrysler. There is no much missing money that none of them know where it is. The one that gets screwed is the taxpayer.

These banks did it to themselves. They wrote bad loans and extended credit to people that they KNEW couldn't pay it back and kept it coming out of greed. No one told them they had to do it. They saw $$$ and milked dry.

I am not saying anything against the first invasion of Iraq. I would have not said anything if we hunted Saddam then. Why wait 10 years though?

Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988. If we wanted justice then 1990-1991 in Iraq would have been a good time to do it? Just saying! I don't justify what Saddam did nor Hitler nor Milosevic...they are all evil bastards that deserve their fate and hopefully will rot in the worst crevices of hell!

 

Got me why it did not happen at that time, my thought was keep rolling until we hit the border to the north, but authorization was not given to do that.
I can only speculate GH did not want to look like a bully ??? Could have been the UN said that was enough, and he listened ?

Left on a Syrian flagged ship ( actually 3 of them ), who knows where they actually went to. The ships went into international waters, and refused to make radio contact when requested.
Saddam got the weapons to where he needed, the people of the country.


The ratio has held true the entire time. We reduced, they reduced so the percentage ( which if the range of numbers on 3 web sites are correct, it is closer to 75% of the troops on the ground ).

Got me, the UN said not to ?? ( remember who was the head of UN forces at the time, France who got the majority of the country's oil from Iran & Iraq ).
The killing off of the population happened into the 2005/2006 time frame. I guess the take in the late 80s was stay out of it, it will calm down ? Never did. Bus clearing executions still happened in 2006, as a regular course of business.

At least I know where you come from, US lives are priceless, others are worth $ 0.00.

These might not even had been suppositions at the time, but hind sight is always 20/20.

Could be they would have gotten him prior to 9/11. That is also a guess, but had he survived, I do not think that would have changed the stance taken on the "western" world. That had nothing to do with us getting out of the country after the Soviets left. He always wanted the US to stay out of Muslim counties. We actually did what he wanted ( help him defeat the Soviets and get out ), and he still came after us. Can't make a nut job happy.

The Kurds, my guess was the choice was made to stay out of it at the time. The later was WMD and the bonus of stopping genocide jsut came with dragging him out of a hole.
The China - Cuba thing, I have to agree.
Kennedy was just being a pissy little elitist about that, and he was going to show Castro. Why it has stood the test of time is beyond me, that is a huge waste, and considering all the "humanitarian exclusions" to the embargo, it is as useful as swiss cheese in terms of "showing Cuba where to get off "

 

I'm not going to address the rest of the drivel. You are completely wrong here. Banks were required to write a certain percentage of loans to the poor and minorities, even if they would not qualify under regular programs. I used to have to listen to the wife complain about the loans.

 

Look I spent seven years in the banking industry myself before leaving. Everyone refers to the Community Reinvestment Act. This was around since the 70s. The GOP had lots of time to repeal it.

All it says is that if you take deposits from an area, you need to loan it to an area. Did they get some reduced rates on loans. Some. Were they forced to loan $300,000 to some fool on welfare with a FICO of 380? No.

Banks brought it on themselves by writing down the value of homes in the early 70s that started becoming integrated. Oooh...the blacks are coming so now a $50k house is worth $20k. It didn't destroy the value and was racist.

 

The reality is time and again. We prop up bad guy A against bad guy B. Bad guy A wins and we're happy. Bad guy A is no longer useful to us and we quit backing him. Bad guy A finds new backer (usually someone that doesn't like us) and now we have to get Bad guy A.

Just a crazy idea. If we're going to support them. How about we choose better guys to prop up and stay behind him?

I have no problem with foreign assistance but you do have to use some common sense.

Also we need to take care of our own first!

 

Don't forget the price of the house also has an impact on the amount of taxes collected, same size house in Naperville or Elmhurst has a higher value. The above chart is for all of DuPage county.

Not sure what it was like in your area, but route 83 had a few bad spots, and they carved the whole thing up and repaved all 6 lanes. It is now in worse shape than when the project started. All the roads around here that got paved seem to be falling apart already, where the 5 year old road was in better shape.
My thought, spend it on heating houses of those who need it, fix the toilets in Chicago PS, so the do not back up, maybe get better security equipment for them, if that is needed. Something that would actually do some good vs tearing up a road that was just replaced, and did not need to be replaced yet.

Got any facts on this, you are the 1st to say money is missing. Would not shock me, the UAW is involved.

BofA did not, that was the federal gov that forced the loan upon them, until they passed the secret stress test. They did not need the money that was forced on them, and the $1B from the forced loan I would say is a shake down.

Some of this is a repeat, from the previous reply, this was to the OP, thus the reason for some cross over.

 

Being the GOp war monger that I am, I say we prop up nobody !

foreign assistance goes out at the same rate as any other country, so if the UK sets the high water mark at 10,000 guys, we only send 10K. They send 50M, we send 50M. I am not picking on the UK, they seem to be the next highest to the US, that is the only reason I use them and not a smaller country.

Stop sending cash to Israel, talk about One Trillion Dollars. Over the course of time between cash, backing loans, and military equipment, we have to be close to 40% of that amount with them ( my thought on it, from reading what some years were - really a SWAG when it comes down to it ).

The passive aggressive BS we get from Pakistan & India, cut out that money, has to be close to 700M or $ 1B over the past 10 years.

How many others on this list ? Could it be $ 1T out the door if they are all added up. Not too much outrage for all this being spent, just the focus on 1 conflict. Thing is, we cannot blame this one on France like Vietnam.

Japan does not want a military base there, fine close it down, move everything out and hand the land back to them.
See what happens to the local economy around that base once it is closed.

This is one I am not GOP material on, I know I am going to be booted out of the GOP ranks for this one.

 

I bet your whole answer would change after spending a year in Iraq and now going back to Afghanistan for another year living at 10,000 Ft burning your own **** or better yet seeing your best friend dying next to you. What you need to do is just shut your mouth and live life. I hate when you people even bring this kind of stuff up.

 

All I can say I what the wife was complaining about when she was a mortgage underwriter working at four different banks. Three of the banks were very conservative and one was rather liberal in their policies. But the one problem remained, they had to write a certain percentage of loans to the poor and minority. Oh, yeah saying you worked in banking has no relevance, because the field is so large. The mortgage departments of most banks are very small when compared to the actual size of the bank. Now come back with you were hired in mortgages right from the start. It is expected.